In my group we rotate GMing. One of the people decided that if you hacked into a node and got security or admin level hits, then you were considered a legitimate user of the node and therefore had to use domputer skills instead of hacking whenever the two options were available. This didn't make much sense to me, but that's possible because my character was an adept with improved hacking at 2 or 3 levels.
Anyone care to comment

That makes sense to me.

Hacking involves breaking through security measures necessary to get into a system. Once you're in, operating that system is no longer hacking - it's simple computer operations. It is conceivable that you hack into a computer system you can't use (i.e. a foreign operating system, or unknown command/file structure, or something proprietary and/or designed in-house for added protection).

If you consider; you could hack in through nodes, firewalls and security programs to get access to a high profile database. Once you are inside that database, you need to use Datasearch skills in order to access the appropriate information you're looking for. Getting into the database and knowing how to extract the data out of it are different things.

...seems reasonable to me as well.

My rule of thumb: Whenever you do something most users normaly do, its computer. Like editing a file.
Changing security logs would be hacking, even with security or admin access, because normaly no one tries to change them.

Or, another example, turning a security camera off with the right level off access would be computer. Editing the feed would be hacking.

I'll use this one until something better comes along.

I might allow you to continue using Hacking instead of Computer but only if you used illicit commands and ran the risk of IC. If you want to look like a normal user you need to stop reading the file system index with a hex editor and use Windows Explorer.

Besides, most standard computer tests are easy or don't even require real tests, otherwise Bob from Accounting couldn't do his job.

It's wrong. You ALWAYS use hacking for illegal hacking proggies. The skill of operating ordinary user apps does not give you the skill to use hacking progs. And you always use computer skill for using legal progs, whether you're doing something legal with them or not. Which skill you use is based on what kind of program you're using, not what kind of user you are.

Not really. There are illicit things to do with legal programs, like edit video feed. Everyone else is suggesting that hacking is used for that, he is suggesting that computer is.

I actually like that distinction. Use computer for everything not a hacking program, except for browse,which uses data search, or scan, which uses electronic warfare.

Far as I see, Hacking is mostly used to gain access, or otherwise make something do what it's not supposed to do . I play pretty fast and loose with the matrix stuff, but once they're in, it's mostly computer or data search or electronic warfare. If I make them roll at all.

Also, though this isn't relevant to the original topic, Moon-Hawk expressed confusion about the Command program and I figure I'll say how I see it. It's used when remotely controlling a device (but not "jumping in"). Command is the program you use and you combine it with a relevant skill to what the device/drone is doing. This is useful as an alternative to jumped-in rigging because it can be done in AR, though it still requires direct control. You're not just giving commands and letting it go. You're controlling it, sort of like you do a remote controlled car. So, for example, if you are remotely controlling your drone to have it shoot someone, you would roll Command + Gunnery. To have your Crashcart Autodoc perform first aid on someone, you'd be rolling Command + First Aid + the Autodoc's medkit rating. And so on.

I know what he said. Each example I gave was for a dice pool to be rolled that included Command in it. Those rolls are to resolve the action in question. I'm not sure I understand what distinction you're trying to make, Jaid.

(edited for clarity)

Page 220, Controlling Devices.

Also, there's no reason you couldn't do this in VR, but I'm not sure if there's any advantage to it over jumping in. I guess if you have an awesome Command program, that's your advantage.

Wonderful, thanks! I've been trying to figure out what that darn program is for, exactly.
So, getting back to the topic of computer use, I guess that one won't really use computer much, unless you're using a drone to remotely use a computer. Or something.
So we have Analyze and Edit as common use programs that use computer skill.
That's not much.

[QUOTE]2) in hotsim, you are performing a matrix action, not rigging. while it is a hot debate whether or not hotsim +2 bonus applies to rigging in hotsim, remote control should always benefit from this. thus, you no longer need a control rig for +2 (incidentally, this is why i give +2 hotsim bonus to full VR rigging as well)[QUOTE]
wouldn't the two boni stack? i.e. +2 for hot sim and =2 more for a controll rig?

I like the idea that hacking would be doing things like getting the information directly, whereas computer would be using the system software to do it.

I could see hacking as being quick and dirty with fewer traces, or computer as being useful if you might need to set up a fake account in order to gain access later or use someone else's account to frame them.

As to rigging I like the idea of a rigger having a sort of VR command centre with virtual screens showing camera views. I think this would be great in particular for riggers on security work, so they can track the feeds from several rotodrones/dobermans/fixed cameras. More of a strategic overview than if you were jumped in as well, for times when a rigger has multiple drones and/or vehicles to keep track of.

For runner team riggers they could have one virtual eye on the feed from a rotodrone and another on the feed from their van for example, maybe even a third from a ground based drone like a Dobie or the slower moving Stormcloud airship for a bird's eye view. Could be handy for coordinating fire and feeding intel to your team, but then a Stormcloud feed straight to everyone's AR would be pretty nice for intel too.

the BBB's pretty clear on this - illegal operations = hacking. legal operations = Computer.

Once the hacker is inside, any operations that are legal for their account's access level use Computer skill, or Data Search if appropriate. If you're trying to do something your account level is not allowed to do, use Hacking. Some operations are always illegal, such as crashing the node.

I see little overlapping area between Computers and Hacking...

While computers is seldom looked after in the electronics group (Data Search and Hardware are more important), its still very useful. It is linked to few programs, but it governs the modification of data, usually quite illegal even if it is a legal computer operation for users with fitting account. And even someone without established user account would use hacking to start the editing program, and computers to make good work of the fake image of Exec and secretary.

Common sense answer:
Hacking is for where you are trying to somehow circumvent normal procedures in the system. Whether this be exceeding account priveliges or not using ana ccount at all is another matter. Imagine a hacker tricking the system into believing their commands are coming straight from the OS for example (not commands in terms of user commands naturally, but more commands to the data storage to take certain actions etc).