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OneTrikPony
I have an ork who took 14 + 5 boxes of physical damage. A bunch of mojo brought him to 13 boxes of damage. A trip to the hospital brought him to 9 boxes of damage.

He has body 7 natural + suprathyroid + quick healer 2

I figure he rolls 20 die for a healing test. If he just buys hits from his die pool he can recover completely in 2 days. I love being able to soak damage but I hate the fact that he can heal 10 boxes of damage (what used to be a deadly wound) in two days.

A healing test is an extended test with an intreval of 1 day. Each hit heals one box of damage.

I propose that the intreval be equal to the number of damage boxes.

So a guy with body 4 & 10 damage boxes filled takes 39 days to heal completely on average.

I've only run the numbers on characters with natural body 4 and natural body 8 so I'm not sure but, it looks like this healing progression is just slightly slower than it was in sr3. It's a smoother progression than earlier versions and while it seems to me to be a little optomistic to heal deadly damage in less than two months it's still better than the immediate healing we have now.

Anciliary questions;
If I use this healing test intreval in my games the Quick Healer quality and the Symbiots Bioware will have much greater utility. Should these things cost more?

Will this unfairly penalize any particular Archetype?

(this is a house rule I propose to use in my games. I don't like HRs but I feel in this case that it doesn't violate the setting or destroy the streamlined rules framework. I would aprieciate if you would consider how this would effect SR4 characters that you have played and post a responce from that viewpoint.) Thanks smile.gif
Thane36425
The faster healing in the game probably represents advances in medical technology, but mainly it is a gaming convenience. By that I mean most players don't want to waste a lot of (game) time while their characters are healing. Being down and out for a few weeks means most adventures are over for a character.

Still, if you don't like the healing times in SR4, use the SR3 system. You could also change the healing interval so that the more severe the wound, the longer the interval is, or more simply, just increase the interval across the board.

This hasn't been too much of an issue for me, yet, in SR4 because I usually play a mage with some First Aid skill and healing magic. Only the Sammie is hard to heal up.
OneTrikPony
QUOTE
You could also change the healing interval so that the more severe the wound, the longer the interval

Um... I thought I had. The interval = damage boxes in days. smile.gif

So if you have 10 boxes of damage and natural body 4 with no other tweeks it will take you about 39 days to heal.

Its a body + body (damage boxes) extended test

10 boxes of damage: 4 body = 8 die -3 wound modifier = Dice pool 5 ~ 1.6 hits = 10 days to heal one box

9 boxes of damage: 4 body = 8 die -3 wound modifier = Dice pool 5 ~ 1.6 hits = 9 days to heal next box

8 boxes of damage: 4 body = 8 die -2 wound modifier = Dice pool 6 ~ 2 hits = 8 days to heal next 2 box

Advances in medical technology should be represented by die pool modifiers. I don't think medical tech should be accounted for in the base test. I can't assume my characters will have access to a doc.

I don't want to use the healing system in SR3 because... Well it's not SR4 mostly. It's a whole different rules mechanic. Despite my objections to this current version I'm not ready to quit or start throwing chunks of it away.

I'd argue that a -3 diepool modifier does not mean that the adventure is over. I see no reason that a player who screwed up and got his character hurt should only have to deal with that injury for a couple of days. I want to encourage thoughtfullness and good tactical play. (otherwize I'd play d20 something.)

Thanks for your comment.
Thane36425
QUOTE (OneTrikPony)
QUOTE
You could also change the healing interval so that the more severe the wound, the longer the interval

Um... I thought I had. The interval = damage boxes in days. smile.gif


Thanks for your comment.

So you did. That'll teach me not be posting when I should be asleep. I see it more clearly with your second explanation. Looks like it would work to me and be even more reason to have a mage with Heal along. Your right though about wounds being a way to teach characters to think things through and be more careful.
djinni
QUOTE (OneTrikPony)
I see no reason that a player who screwed up and got his character hurt should only have to deal with that injury for a couple of days.

not everytime someone gets hurt did he/she screw up
ShadowDragon
I agree that heal rates are a little silly from a realism standpoint, but I rationalize it as the awakening of the world triggered quicker rates of healing coupled with advances in technology. Increasing healing time could potentially make the game unplayable, or least not very fun. Suppose your character gets knocked unconscious with physical damage and you roll poorly, or have a low enough body that it takes months to recover. Do you just miss game sessions while the other players go on another run? Or does your team wait until you're healed and lose all of the money you've earned paying for lifestyle and medical expenses?

I houserule that characters need medical attention or magical healing before they can recover from a large enough bullet wound (to remove the bullet) by resting. Anything more than that is way too gritty for my taste.
Trigger
QUOTE (OneTrikPony)
So if you have 10 boxes of damage and natural body 4 with no other tweeks it will take you about 39 days to heal.

Actually, your math is off by a bit. You do not apply wound modifiers to healing tests if you are doing natural healing, because you are simply resting. Wound modifiers are for strenous actions, where you wounds would get in the way. If you are lying in bed resting, your wounds aren't getting in the way of that.

With 10 boxes and a Body of 4 with an interval equal to the boxes in days per test then:

Test 1: Body + Body: 8 Dice= 2.4 Successes, let's just say two: After 10 days he is at 8 boxes

Test 2: 8 Dice= 2.4 Successes, this one will be 3: After 8 more days he is at 5 boxes

Test 3: Another 2.4 Successes, ok 2 again: Five more days, he is at 3 Boxes

Test 4: This time 3 successes: 3 more days and he is 0 boxes, fully healed.

So it should take approximately 26 days to heal 10 boxes (deadly) with a Body of 4.

I too am in favor of this method, as it is a bit more realistic. Also it shouldn't take this long in game to heal anyways, becasue with any sort of medical care along with the bed rest, as either the person resting could do a Medicine test on themselves (this includes situational mods and wound mods) to increase the number of healing dice they roll for their healing extended test by the nuber of hits they got on the Medicine test. Although Medicine can only be applied once, the hits from the test apply to all subsequent healing tests for that set of wounds. It can also be combined with magical healing and/or First Aid if they were applied. So really, though it would take about a month to heal a deadly wound if you just had bed rest, it will most likely take quite a bit less if you any medical procedures or anyone you know knows any medical procedures.
Demerzel
QUOTE (Trigger)
Actually, your math is off by a bit. You do not apply wound modifiers to healing tests if you are doing natural healing, because you are simply resting. Wound modifiers are for strenous actions, where you wounds would get in the way. If you are lying in bed resting, your wounds aren't getting in the way of that.

Were is the rule for this, please?

I am only aware of Damage Resistance Teats being exempt from wound penalties, and I'm interested in where you got that from.
6thDragon
I found the new rules on healing times to be ridiculous too and came up with a similar houserule. Although if you strictly use the healing modification table on pg 244 it makes it more reasonable.
hobgoblin
QUOTE
Although if you strictly use the healing modification table on pg 244 it makes it more reasonable.


only using part of the healing rules and then complain that the rules are broken (or whatever) is like personally removing the engine of a car and complaining to the maker that the car is broken...
Jack Kain
QUOTE (Demerzel)
QUOTE (Trigger @ Jan 6 2007, 04:23 AM)
Actually, your math is off by a bit. You do not apply wound modifiers to healing tests if you are doing natural healing, because you are simply resting.  Wound modifiers are for strenous actions, where you wounds would get in the way. If you are lying in bed resting, your wounds aren't getting in the way of that.

Were is the rule for this, please?

I am only aware of Damage Resistance Teats being exempt from wound penalties, and I'm interested in where you got that from.

If you look under the healing examples the wound modifers aren't factored in.
Just look at the stun example

Fatima, a mage, is jumped by Huanis goons
and badly beaten, sustaining 8 boxes of Stun damage
(ouch). She decides to rest for an hour at a nearby
friend’s telesma shop. Her player rolls 4 (Body) + 5
(Willpower), and gets three hits. Three boxes of Stun
damage are healed, leaving her with five yet to heal.
She’s not in the greatest shape, but she should be able to
stumble home to finish healing.

There should have been a -2 for wound modifers factored into the healing test but there wasn't.
Konsaki
I dont belive damage mods should be used on natural healing tests either.
Demerzel
So the question I guess is:

Is that a mistake that should be noted in the Errata thread?

The section on wound modifiers:
QUOTE (P.194 SR4 Core)
Wound modifiers are dice pool modifiers that apply to nearly all tests the injured character may attempt, except for resistance tests.
Grinder
QUOTE (Demerzel)
I am only aware of Damage Resistance Teats being exempt from wound penalties, and I'm interested in where you got that from.

It may be a houserule, but our group never takes wound modifiers into healing tests.
Jack Kain
QUOTE (Demerzel)
So the question I guess is:

Is that a mistake that should be noted in the Errata thread?

The section on wound modifiers:
QUOTE (P.194 SR4 Core)
Wound modifiers are dice pool modifiers that apply to nearly all tests the injured character may attempt, except for resistance tests.

Read your own quote it says nearlly all tests execpt for resistence tests.
Not all tests execpt for..
Grinder
Well, could be written clearlier...
ShadowDragon
QUOTE (Grinder @ Jan 6 2007, 03:54 PM)
QUOTE (Demerzel @ Jan 6 2007, 07:05 PM)
I am only aware of Damage Resistance Teats being exempt from wound penalties, and I'm interested in where you got that from.

It may be a houserule, but our group never takes wound modifiers into healing tests.

Mine doesn't either. I always thought this was RAW...

So what are you supposed to do when your wound modifiers are greater than your dice pool? Suppose both your stun and physical tracks are filled in, giving you -6 modifiers, but you only have 3 will/body. Do you stay permanently injured until someone puts a bandaid on you?
hobgoblin
it could be that your group have moved over from SR3, where it was a defined rule...
Demerzel
ShadowDragin: I think thats even a good approximation of reality. At a certain point you will basically only be able to get better if you're cared for/hospitalized or very lucky (use edge).
Grinder
QUOTE (hobgoblin)
it could be that your group have moved over from SR3, where it was a defined rule...

Possible, yes.
Trigger
QUOTE (Jack Kain)
If you look under the healing examples the wound modifers aren't factored in.
Just look at the stun example

Fatima, a mage, is jumped by Huanis goons
and badly beaten, sustaining 8 boxes of Stun damage
(ouch). She decides to rest for an hour at a nearby
friend’s telesma shop. Her player rolls 4 (Body) + 5
(Willpower), and gets three hits. Three boxes of Stun
damage are healed, leaving her with five yet to heal.
She’s not in the greatest shape, but she should be able to
stumble home to finish healing.

There should have been a -2 for wound modifers factored into the healing test but there wasn't.

It also isn't factored into the First Aid healing example either. I don't know exactly about the wound mods applying to everything except resistance tests (yes I looked up the section in the BBB) but I think it applies to all tests done in combat and any strenuos tests afterwards. It specifically says that a character applies wound mods if he is applying medicine to himself in the Medicine section, but that is the only instance I can see in the whole Healing section that references wound modifiers in the process of healing. I think that is the only time they actually apply in the process.
Demerzel
Well, the First Aid example you don't know how damaged if at all Rosy Fatima's friend is. So any claim to the effect of ignoring wound modifiers in that case is unfounded.

As far as the wound modifiers affecting everything except resistance is your parrenthetical implying you looked up the section I mentioned above, because it says nothing of combat or strenuousness, so I fail to see where that is used as a determining factor.
ShadowDragon
Lets hope it's defined more clearly in the errata.
Kronk2
I know that this is a little off topic, but how much faster is the heal spell anyway? I had always assumed its pretty much an instant fix, but now they say it takes a little while.
pbangarth
QUOTE (Demerzel)

I am only aware of Damage Resistance Teats being exempt from wound penalties

Hmmm... I think I should keep abreast of the rules. Are these 'accessories' to appear in Augmentation?
Demerzel
No, they'll be in that udder book.
Fortune
QUOTE (Kronk2 @ Jan 11 2007, 03:31 PM)
I know that this is a little off topic, but how much faster is the heal spell anyway? I had always assumed its pretty much an instant fix, but now they say it takes a little while.

I think the time being referred to is the period in which the spell must be sustained before it becomes finalized, or permanent. There is some debate as to just when the actual effects of the Spell take place ... some say that the healing occurs as soon as the Spell is cast, while others claim that nothing actually happens until after the required time is spent sustaining it.
Kronk2
QUOTE (Fortune)
I think the time being referred to is the period in which the spell must be sustained before it becomes finalized, or permanent. There is some debate as to just when the actual effects of the Spell take place ... some say that the healing occurs as soon as the Spell is cast, while others claim that nothing actually happens until after the required time is spent sustaining it.

I am confused in general about how long it takes to sustain the spell so that it becomes permanent
Fortune
QUOTE (SR4 - pg. 195)
Duration is either Instant, Sustained, or Permanent.
Instant spells end the moment they are cast, and their full effects are felt immediately. Sustained spells last for as long as the magician concentrates on them. Permanent spells must be sustained for a short time, after which their effects become “natural� and no longer require magic or concentration to maintain. The time required to make a spell’s effects permanent is equal to twice the Drain Value in Combat Turns.
Kronk2
so for a human times up to and including a minute are rational. with extra successes reducing this of course.
Fortune
To attempt a Heal Spell on a person with 10 boxes of Damage would result in a DV of 8, meaning that the Spell would have to be sustained for 16 Combat Turns, or approximately 48 seconds.

Hit can be used to reduce this time or heal boxes of Damage, but keep in mind that the total Hits acheived (for any and all purposes) are limited to the Spell's Force.
Kronk2
I am glad that they are making force useful again.
Grinder
Can't remember when focus became unuseful.
Fortune
QUOTE (Grinder)
Can't remember when focus became unuseful.

Force 1 Increase Reflexes (Oxygenate, Camouflage, etc) in SR3. wink.gif
Grinder
But Weapon Foci were still useful biggrin.gif
kigmatzomat
Edit - never mind, fortune beat me to it and I was remembering the rules from Sr3.
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