Full Version: elemental effect.
I don't understand the elemental effect adept power. If I add an elemental effect to my punch, how does it effect the person I hit. Do they only get 1/2 their impact armor (or none in some cases) to resist the full damage of my punch? That seems rather excessive when you can combine it with power punch (or whatever that adept power is that raises your dv.) and the power that gives you an AP value costs more than elemental effect costs substantially more. Or does the target only resist the electric (e.g.) power at a certain level (e.g. magic?)
As far as I can tell, Elemental strike applies the element's secondary effect on top of the physical damage you deal with with Killing Hands. And I believe the secondary damage has a chance of affecting the victim even if you don't actually damage them with the unarmed strike. So you and the target make a standard unarmed attack test. And if the victim was hit, they then make another test to resist the secondary elemental effect at outlined in the elemental damage entries.
Let's say you hit someone with Elemental Strike (Electricity). If your attack roll generates enough hits to land the blow, the target resists the damage from your Killing Hands strike as normal. Then, regardless of whether they soak the damage or not, they have to make another test (base of bod+will at Thresh 3). If they fail, they're useless for a handful of combat rounds. Even if they make the threshold, they take a -2 dice penalty for whatever period they would have been incapacitated had they failed.
The threshold and effect will vary, depending on which element you have imbued (i.e. acid and fire can generate damage on subsequent rounds w/o you having to do anything, blast and water can cause knockdown, sonic can nauseate and deafen the victim, etc.). Like elemental combat spells, the primary use of this power lies in the ability to modify the battlefield and cause special damage to objects - as well as it's ability to make you look pretty bad-ass.
Let's say you hit someone with Elemental Strike (Electricity). If your attack roll generates enough hits to land the blow, the target resists the damage from your Killing Hands strike as normal. Then, regardless of whether they soak the damage or not, they have to make another test (base of bod+will at Thresh 3). If they fail, they're useless for a handful of combat rounds. Even if they make the threshold, they take a -2 dice penalty for whatever period they would have been incapacitated had they failed.
The threshold and effect will vary, depending on which element you have imbued (i.e. acid and fire can generate damage on subsequent rounds w/o you having to do anything, blast and water can cause knockdown, sonic can nauseate and deafen the victim, etc.). Like elemental combat spells, the primary use of this power lies in the ability to modify the battlefield and cause special damage to objects - as well as it's ability to make you look pretty bad-ass.
The way I read and indeed run it is with elemental strike you replace your 4P damage (or whatever power applies) with 4P(fire) or 4S(water). Basically the killing hands do the relevant elemental effect instead of it's normal physical damage, so electricity does stun damage but gets the chance of shocking the opponent or giving them the -2 modifier just like a shock glove.
I have the same interpretation as Ophis.
The thing is, the armor rules are different for the different elemental effects ...
How do you deal with it ?
The thing is, the armor rules are different for the different elemental effects ...
How do you deal with it ?
I just stick with the rules as stated in the write up of each elemental effect, this make sonic both very good (no armour) and very stupid (it makes a big f***ing bang).
I do it the way TonkaTuff does. The physical attack is resolved as normal, then the elemental effect is applied as a secondary effect. I also use the rules for a grazing hit, if the defender rolls exactly the same number of successes as the attacker, the main attack is negated but the elemental effect still applies.
| QUOTE (fool @ Apr 4 2007, 05:55 PM) |
| I don't understand the elemental effect adept power. If I add an elemental effect to my punch, how does it effect the person I hit. Do they only get 1/2 their impact armor (or none in some cases) to resist the full damage of my punch? That seems rather excessive when you can combine it with power punch (or whatever that adept power is that raises your dv.) and the power that gives you an AP value costs more than elemental effect costs substantially more. Or does the target only resist the electric (e.g.) power at a certain level (e.g. magic?) |
I run it that way, yes. You resist the full DV with only half impact.
Because you are using magical forces, which are fueled by your other adept powers. Typically, they manifest as extra strength. When combined with this, it instead modifies the magic.
And it is more powerful. It's still typically less useful than a full narrow burst, or two short narrow bursts. Melee combat is far from overpowered in SR4.
Acid Punch (with several level of critical strike)...Yummy.
and that's exacvtly my point. you add CS to EE and get AK (auto kill)
Hasn't actually come up yet, though I always interpreted it the same way as TonkaTuff
| QUOTE |
| This power can only be developed by characters who already possess the Killing Hands power (p. 188, SR4). Elemental Strike enhances the effects of Killing Hands with an elemental effect (see pp. 164–165 of this book and pp. 154–155, SR4). |
It sounds to me like you add the secondary effect for that element, though it is certainly vague.
I will say that I have a sudden urge to make an NPC with this power that has gone too long neglected in my game. Now which is best... ???
| QUOTE |
| Melee combat is far from overpowered in SR4. |
I don't know, man. I have seen a troll with a combat axe wreck shop.
| QUOTE (Superbum) | ||
I don't know, man. I have seen a troll with a combat axe wreck shop. |
How about "Unarmed combat" instead?
Yep. Case in point, I had a goofball player of mine think it would be awesome to make an adept with unarmed yet take no powers to supplement it. He did 3S on his first punch and everyone at the table just laughed at him.
having reread the elemental effects rules, there's a major problem with tonkatuffs interpretation which is that the only elemental effect that does anything is electric. Even then, you only have to do the body+will/3 test. And none of the other elemental effects have such a threshold test (though fire might cause their armor to catch fire.) Which means that the only ee that would be useful is the electric....kinda dumb if you ask me.
| QUOTE |
| Melee combat is far from overpowered in SR4 |
...this person has obviously not met Hurricane Hannah when she gets mad The last mission she was on she literally knocked someone's block off with her "jambalaya jab".
...and she's just a human girl, albeit a strappin' human girl...
Hurricane Hannah (link to Squinky's art thread)
| QUOTE |
| And none of the other elemental effects have such a threshold test (though fire might cause their armor to catch fire.) Which means that the only ee that would be useful is the electric....kinda dumb if you ask me. |
Actually, many of them call for tests (usually a modified damage resistance test based on the DV of the initial attack). And those that don't usually recommend special affects to be determined by the GM. Admittedly, some changes might need to be taken into account because of the way adept powers work.
Take the Blast and Water effects: whether they damage the target or not, you still do the comparison against the target's Body att to see if they're knocked on their ass (DV+Force test vs a threshold of the target's Body). Of course, Adept powers don't have a Force statistic - so you'd have to come up with some other metric, perhaps the Adept's Magic rating or just raw DV.
Acid, once applied, continues to do damage to flesh or vulnerable materials for a number of rounds equal to the DV of the original attack (the DV of these "attacks" don't seem to change) until washed off or neutralized. Depending on what it's dissolving, Acid can also throw up a cloud that causes vision penalties. Fire behaves much the same, though it can naturally peter out or flare up over time as the situation warrants. Light applies a Glare mod to unprotected viewers for 1 round after the attack (and can start fires). Smoke creates an inhalation toxin that needs resisting and a hefty vision penalty.
The biggest problems lie with Cold, Ice, Metal, Sand, and Sound. The only real effect of the first four require GM interpretation to decide how, exactly, they mess up your gear (busting/jamming gear, reducint the PV of your armor, etc). Though this also applies to most of the effects to an extent, since they all leave room for interpretation as to what, exactly, all that damage is actually doing. And Sound, going strictly by the RAW, requires damage be inflicted before the nausea and deafness apply - though even in that case, substituting damage dealt for DV vs. Will isn't unreasonable.
| QUOTE (Kyoto Kid) | ||
...this person has obviously not met Hurricane Hannah when she gets mad The last mission she was on she literally knocked someone's block off with her "jambalaya jab". ...and she's just a human girl, albeit a strappin' human girl... Hurricane Hannah (link to Squinky's art thread) |
Melee combat can definitely be effective, if you're built for it.
But to gain the equivalent of an assault rifle with gas vents 3 (which can do a short narrow burst for 9 damage out the gate, and costs you perhaps 20 bp for the skill+weapon) you have to dedicate a lot of points.
Any punk can pick up automatics (assault rifles) 4 and do some damage. Any punk that picks up unarmed (headstomp) 4 is gonna be outclassed (especially given the simple/complex issue).
Which, to be fair, is the way I think it should be in SR.
...I agree. I think it is balanced
Firing an automatic weapon is a lot simpler (you may not be that good at it but you can still pull the trigger and hose) than dedicating one's self to mastering a martial art.
In RL with a little instruction on a firing range, I became rather proficient with handguns, particularly revolvers like the Colt Peacemaker and Ruger Blackhawk. To have become even a Golden Glove level boxer would have required several years of physical conditioning and training at the gym.
The tough part with playing a primarily melee oriented character is getting her into place to use it. Hannah's ranged skill is thrown weapons, usually FlashBangs & Pepper Punch Grenades (and occasionally billiard balls). The most important secondary skill is her athletics and Infiltration (Sneaking). She usually uses the grenades as a distraction to get herself in place or herd her target towards where she is hiding. What she really needs is to get a six pack of Heavy Angel Outfitters Distraction in a Can.
Firing an automatic weapon is a lot simpler (you may not be that good at it but you can still pull the trigger and hose) than dedicating one's self to mastering a martial art.
In RL with a little instruction on a firing range, I became rather proficient with handguns, particularly revolvers like the Colt Peacemaker and Ruger Blackhawk. To have become even a Golden Glove level boxer would have required several years of physical conditioning and training at the gym.
The tough part with playing a primarily melee oriented character is getting her into place to use it. Hannah's ranged skill is thrown weapons, usually FlashBangs & Pepper Punch Grenades (and occasionally billiard balls). The most important secondary skill is her athletics and Infiltration (Sneaking). She usually uses the grenades as a distraction to get herself in place or herd her target towards where she is hiding. What she really needs is to get a six pack of Heavy Angel Outfitters Distraction in a Can.
| QUOTE |
| Take the Blast and Water effects: whether they damage the target or not, you still do the comparison against the target's Body att to see if they're knocked on their ass (DV+Force test vs a threshold of the target's Body). Of course, Adept powers don't have a Force statistic - so you'd have to come up with some other metric, perhaps the Adept's Magic rating or just raw DV. |
This is the problem. THere's nothing to use as a guide for determining the dv.
Of course the problem with the other interpretation (just turning the entire damage into an elemental effect is that it makes the power overpowered.
Of course the reasopn I'm wondering about this is I'm making up a character who is taking EE and i want to know how it's gopinhg to effect his abilities.
On the other hand if you do it properly you can make a character who can dodge bullets and packs a punch in close combat. And then all those people who focussed on semi-automatics will be in trouble.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.