SR4 has rules for edge being burnt to avoid death, so a PC should only die if he is constantly finding himself needing to burn edge, or the player wants the character gone.

Melee has some advantages as well. Against gunmen, you can force a -3 penalty by getting into melee with them. Depending on positioning, getting cover against ranged attacks from the other combatants shouldn't be too hard.

We generally just describe what's going on, and break out the battle mat if necessary.

Welcome to Shadowrun!

One nice thing about Shadowrun (at least 3rd and 4th editions of which I am most familiar with) is that, unlike D&D, a startup character can hang with veterans pretty well. They may not be as well rounded, but the stats are definitely playable. So, instead of starting characters out at "higher" levels, really a character can be made jsut by book specs and hang with the rest of the party.

And I too use square ruled 1 inch mats representing 1 meter squares, jsut like in D&D. I find that it's best to get a ruler or a little cheap tape measure to measure off diagonal movement in this case, instead of trying to count squares. But the grid facilitates drawing buildings and landmarks to scale with minis and helping keep everyone in their "places" each round.

Here's how I made my own "mats":
I purchased white butcher's paper (found anywhere really cheap in big rolls) that is 2 foot wide and then cut off a 3 foot section. Then carefully i laid out a one by one inch grid using a pencil and T square (a yardstick would do) first and then over that with a Sharpie. Then, I took it to my local teacher's supply store and had them laminate the the whole thing. I figure each mat I make that way came up costing around 4 bucks or something after laminating. I then use Vis a Vis water soluble markers on them to draw things out. Then at the end of gaming, we jsut wipe them down with a wet cloth. It works wonders. You can afford to make several of these and as the characters go from place to place, jsut quickly switch mats on the table. Also, if you have several, you can do a rough outline of facility ahead of time and jsut whip it out when the adventure calls for it. I have been using mats made this way for years and they last forever. I truly prefer them over professional mats. I also used to laminate all my official D&D large maps for durability. Just roll them up when you aren't using them and stick them in a card board postal tube.

We use 25mm minis for our characters, but for bad guys a trick I have found is using Scrabble tiles. Go out and buy yourself a cheap regular Scrabble game (can be had for about 10 bucks most Walmarts) and use the wooden tiles. By using the blanks you can get two full "alphabets" out of the tiles with many left over. Take a colored magic marker and do one "'Bet"'s edge in one color and the other in another. These work wonderfully for keeping track of different NPC's. (I actually use a total of four different colors of tiles) And they fit nicely in the one inch squares of the mat. Also, for death, jsut flip them over (we frequently set "stunned" on their edge) The tiles store easily for transport as well.

I hope that helps you. Good gaming!

Vlad

That's brilliant.

There's something kind of lame (to me) about getting a bunch of karma for nothing, and also something kind of lame (to me) about someone else in my group being rewarded for letting their character die. The rest of us have poured blood, sweat, and Edge into a game in order to scratch out some nuyen and karma for our characters -- and now that so-and-so is dead, such-and-such is gonna waltz in with the same level of experience and money and stuff, without having the scars or unwilling-replacement-cybernetics to show for it?

Leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

I'd say "1/2 karma for replacement killers," personally. It gives them enough they won't be completely boned compared to the rest of the group, but makes dying still suck (which it should, considering you can always burn Edge, etc, to keep it from happening).

And I'd make that 1/2 karma get cut in half per character. If we hit fifty and then you die, your replacement starts with twenty five. A few runs later, and you croak while we're at fifty-five and you're at thirty? Congrats, here's fifteen karma. Be more fucking careful next time, rookie.

CHARACTER DEATH
Like Eryk and the other posters on this thread, the longer I've gamed, the less I like rewarding players for dying. I try to give the PC's every opportunity to live, to the point of fudging here and there if it was just a case of dice going horribly bad. It doesn't mean they aren't penalized (they lose edge, karma, possessions etc.), but I run large ongoing campaigns where hte characters have a huge arc to play. I tailor my stories to the characters in many ways and try to bring out subplots using their contacts and former enemies.

Also, I have found that letting the characters live (if possible but with big penalties) builds their characters. And the game itself. Suddenly that forgettable one-off NPC becomes an enemy, they have a grudge now, etc.

But, if they are really stupid and really pushing it and it results in death, so be it. Here's a sheet, roll up a new character. (Can you tell where my roots are? Roll up, indeed *L*) The game is no fun if you can't lose or if you always win. From what you have said about pushing them to their limits on each run, it sounds like you already have this concept in your gaming. it's a good one to stick with. Most mature gamers appreciate it.

NEW CHARACTERS
As far as a new character... in my opinion he gets started out on the 400 point build jsut like everyone else. After he (or she) has built his character and I go over the sheet, I may hand pick an item or two, or toss in a little bonus cash as needed, but its always on a case by case basis. Or allow them to go slightly over on their cash limit, if they have a really good justification for that one piece of gear that their character just can't live without. But no additional karma. Ever. That has to be earned.

In my opinion start up characters in SR are completely survivable with veterans. They probably aren't as well rounded, or have as many toys, but if they can't survive, if they can't make it through a couple runs, cut a deal with characters or bargain with their contacts and realize they may have to be careful, then the player needs to learn a bit of gaming skill. I have always likened them to Porter in the first few minutes of the movie Payback. Here's the new guy... he's coming from nowhere and has nothing but his skills and his wits and his balls. Steal that gun, that car, those cigarettes. Take what the world owes you. That's Shadowrun, baby! And it's fun!

Vlad

Awww shucks!

It tweren't brilliant or nuttin'


Another useful thing I used to do for 3rd edition (don't seem to need it as much for 4th with the way initiative goes but it could be used):

Get some of those cheap 3x5 clear acrylic picture frames... you know, the kind that are one piece with them bent around like a sloppy "L"? They make wonderful Initiative and Damage (and whatever else you wanna keep track of) boards for each character. Just slip a piece of paper into the frame. Then give each player a dry erase marker. When Init is rolled, have each player write down their score.

Each of mine had hte character's names, a slot to write Init and a set of damage boxes that they could put checks in. And then have them stay on the table and facing you, the GM. It made keeping track of Init a breeze for me. It also helps to remember their names when they are newer characters and you can stay in character while roleplaying better. And knowing where each character is on their damage levels at a glance helps you be a "kind" GM for determining jsut how far an NPC might go in his attacks. (And also to keep the player honest in figuring all his penalties for dice rolls )

I was able to get the plastic picture frames for a buck apiece at a Dollar Store and a package of dry erase markers don't cost much either. A real time saver. And they are pretty portable as well, if you GM at different houses.

Now that, that's brilliant.

Vlad

ps. If you use both ideas, jsut don't mix up the dry erase and the Vis a Vis markers. The dry erase stains your mats if it gets wet.

Because swords never run out of ammo. But mostly it's the coolness factor...and the Highlander fanboys.

Holy Crap! I wrote that 15 years ago. I'm kind of amazed it's still out there. I'm thrilled to hear somebody else has gotten some mileage out of it.

I'd fully endorse this approach as well. You *might* want to consider also tossing in some extra nuyen as well. But, that's a little trickier to track.

I'd also agree with Aaron -- vladski's suggestion of Scrabble tiles is a fantastic one.

The notion of a home-made laminated play mat is very cool, but the dry-erase vinyl ones from Chessex aren't too unreasonable. (Especially if you pick up the factory seconds from their booths at GenCon and Origins.) Chessex Battlemats I've had one of them for at least 20 years, and the other for at least ten. They don't exactly wear out, and any household cleaner will get the marker off (wet or dry erase) without a problem.

I am going on record right now and making it clear by stating that I have absitively, posolutely, unquestionably have not used my character's HoG in your game!

Yet

I have more fun, as player as well as as GM, when character death is not on the line. I noticed that in my games, players tend to argue rules, minmax, and get worked up far more when their character's life is at risk, which usually means friction.

If players know their character won't die without a clear warning, they are usually having more fun, and try more "less than perfect" character concepts/plans.

Or, as one of my favorite characters ever said:

"You know, they tell ya to never hit a man with a closed fist but it is, on occasion, hilarious."

- Malcolm Reynolds, Firefly

Vlad

I don't see how the two are necessarily mutually exclusive. It's quite possible to have a flawed, realistic, "not-perfect" character (with weaknesses and all), and still make the game world a high stakes, dangerous, place where it's possible to die.

You don't have to min/max and cut role playing out of the mix, just because a GM runs a game where you can bite it. Training wheels and a dozen GM "no player deaths!" failsafes aren't required safety nets for a game that contains flawed characters and realistic role playing.