The rate of Autism among people 10 years ago was approximately 1 in 10,000

Today, the ratio is somewhere around 1 in 150


Now, there is the distinct possibility that there is some over diagnosing going on.


But where does that leave us in 2070? One may say gene therapy and technology can eliminate all ails of humanity, but in the have - have not dichotomy of Shadowrun, that is probably not an option for most.

Has this been addressed by game designers, or considered for created characters and NPCs?


Not trying to be offensive - but this is interesting because I live with someone who works with children who are on the autism spectrum.

Good question. What about Downs Syndrome in 2070. That hits a little close to home for my family personally.

Like the OP said, there's gene therapy and technology that can eliminate just about any mundane ailment, if you can pay for it. I'm sure everything like that is screened for if you've got health insurance.
Birth defects are for poor people and certain fringe religions which don't believe in that sort of thing. And, considering the general levels of toxins, etc in their lives, probably a bit more common for those groups.

Of course, some of these things might be so easy to treat that even free clinics can take care of it for you, but there's always the risk that the clinic is being run by Humanis, so maybe while they're editing out certain defects, they're editing in other, more insidious ones. (It takes a little while to realize the free clinic has made every Ork born in the last 10 years healthy, but infertile)

I'll be perfectly honest: this is my Charisma/Intuition 1. From my (wholly unprofessional) experience, autism is a severe flaw in a person's ability to interact with other people, stemming from an inability to interpret the actions of others and to communicate their thoughts effectively. Whenever a player comes to my table with a 1 in a mental attribute, I ask them what psychological disorder their character has, because they're too far off the bell curve not to.

In my own defense, I often accept "he's just REALLY absentminded" if the roleplaying is entertaining. The loaded question is just to make my preconceptions on the matter clear.

Although the 1 in 150 ratio can quite possibly be attributed to mis-diagnosis, it is also because of new classifications of Autism. For example, Ausperger's Syndrome (mild form of Autism) was only classified in the last 20ish years, and still remains relatively unknown, even among professionals. I would guess (although cannot say for certain) that there are multiple newer classifications similar.

And by the way, Ausperger's is (somewhat) accurately reflected in the Uncouth quality.

asperger's was actually first put on paper in the 1930's. but only in german as the doctor (where asperger gets its name) was a german and a autism specialist/researcher iirc. then there was a certain war and the paper was forgotten until around the 80-90's, when it was found and translated to english. after that its been doing the rounds in child psychology.

how i know this? i was the odd kid out for most of my childhood, and only recently had a specialist give me the diagnosis. so lately i have been doing a bit of reading on the subject. as for it being a variant of uncouth, maybe. that is, if its played as something unintentional rather then the "dont give a damn about social norms" kind of classical wild west tracker/trailblazer/mountain-man.

High Five Hobgoblin.

"Then there was a certain war..."

Must have missed that one in history class.

Hans Asperger was Australian, not German. He initially described the syndrome in the mid-1940's, not 30's. It was standardized in the mid-90's, but I do believe you are correct in it beginning to re-emerge in the 80's. It is a recent development, and many "specialists" still mis-diagnose it as ADD/ADHD, Depression, or a number of other things due to not being aware of it.

How do I know? I have Aspergers. After learning of it about two years ago, I have done fairly extensive research on it. One of my good friends has Aspergers, & also happens to be minoring in psychology, with a major in related fields. I also semi-regularly attend a Asperger's support group - more to learn about it further than for any other reason. Finally, one of the key distinguishing characteristics of those with Aspergers (although not everyone has it) is a severe lack of social skills, including but not limited to the ability to read body language or participate in general conversation. Sounds very much like being uncouth to me.

ugh, seems my memory is not what i thought it would be...

still, given the time of my post, and how many hours i had been awake, no big surprise...

oh, and i think you mistyped austrian

Having spent a little time with an autistic child and looking at the intensity of parents in general, it seems like any parent who had access would do whatever fix was necessary, from best to worst, to get their child talking- even if it meant a quick and dirty cyberware fix by a barrens street doc.

I don't see it as a regular part of the Sixth World- except maybe as those quick and dirty fixed kids in the barrens, but that won't resemble the original disease anyway.

More than distinct, in my opinion. This may ruffle a few feathers but I'm of the opinion that there's an enormous amount of over-diagnosing going on because if you convince someone they're broken, you can charge them money to fix you. Same goes for if you convince a funding body there's a problem, you can get money off them to study it. This is most especially the case when you tell parents there is something wrong with their child in which case they'll throw as much money at you as you ask for to fix their child before it grows up "damaged."

The occurrence of some conditions would have increased or decreased in SR2070 compared to today, but what would probably be the relevant concern would be the ever tighter definition of what constitutes healthy. By 2070, I don't think there'd be anyone that a psychiatrist couldn't stick a label on and say they needed treatment for something, whether that be therapy or drugs or both. It's pretty much like that now!

Ten or more years ago, if a child was a bit withdrawn, didn't mix so much with the other children and spent most of her time buried in a book, well, caring parents would nag their child to go out a bit more but essentially that child was just considered to be like that. She wasn't considered to be defective in some way. And indeed, she isn't really defective. People have turned such personality traits into the basis of very successful lives. And I have personally seen children be harmed by people who intended to "fix" them along with the parents who went along with it. Those labels can be far more damaging than the personality traits they are supposed to categorise. Now twenty years ago, if a child was autistic, then it was as obvious then as it is today. Autism is big thing, (though again it is not something that necessarily needs to be "fixed.") Newly popularised "disorders" such as Asperger's Syndrome are a lot closer to crossing the line between saying someone has a problem and saying that someone shouldn't be a particular person, that it is no longer a problem someone has, but trying to alter who they are. And I think that line is being frequently crossed at the moment.

Not even everyone who has real autism considers it a problem. There's a society of autistic people who want to change the perception of it as being something that has to be treated. Obviously many people with autism do benefit from treatment, but autistic people are still people and can usually make an informed choice about themselves. I couldn't find the society itself, but there's an interesting article here which I think is about the same group.

Am I saying that autism isn't a serious condition? No, though I am saying that for some people it's part of who they are and they don't want treatment and this needs to get wider attention. Autistic does not equal non-person. Am I saying that Asperger's isn't a serious condition? Not completely, but I think it's over-diagnosed, over-treated and that labelling a grouping of relatively mild personality tendencies as a disorder that should be treated, is really damaging to both those labelled and us as a society. And especially I forsee new condition after new condition being found and treated until every parent and every adult has a list as long as your arm of the things that are wrong with them. It really pisses me off, to be honest.

Yes - this is something I feel fairly strongly about. As you can tell. To bring it back to Shadowrun, that future - the one where every personality is assessed, profiled and monitored to destruction - that's what I see the world of the megacorporate wageslave being like. For the children of higher-ranking managers, it will probably be even worse. Got to make sure that they grow up sufficiently alpha male with a hyper-instilled work ethic and excellent social adjustment. Child Development Optimisation is probably the biggest industry in the Sixth World. In fact, next time I run a Shadowrun game, I think I'll stick a CDO Specialist character in as an NPC just to drive home how obsessed and screwed up the SR2070 world is.

K.

That would fall more in the realm of schizoid personality disorder, which I think could also explain a Charisma of 1 or Uncouth Flaw.

You could also say that characters with high Logic or certain edges (Photographic Memory, Codeslinger, certain Aptitudes, etc) qualify as savants.

But I happen to agree with knasser. Autism is highly over diagnosed these days, especially Asperger's. Along with bipolar disorder, ADHD and a slew of other psychiatric disorders that are often misdiagnosed in children.

I'm autistic with severe learning difficulties, and I went to a school for people with learning disabilites, so I know what I'm talking about here.

Sometimes, it's pretty obvious that someone has a learning disability, just by hearing them talk or how they react to certain things. Other times, you wouldn't even notice it, short of them telling you or finding their name in a school record or something. I once searched for causes of autism on the internet, and most sources believe that the brain is somehow wired differently in someone with autism compared to someone without it. You can bet that they'll react differently to what other people are doing around them.

In Shadowrun, I'd think of only five types of people with learning disabilities: Too dangerous to mess with (Especially if known to be Awakened or a Technomancer. And given the differently wired brain, you'd have to consider the possibility...), capable of fitting in, not as capable at fitting in but in a position that makes their continued survival important to people, in hiding to keep people from hurting them or dead due to accidentally saying or doing the wrong thing...

betterwatchit,
With the brain wiring you mentioned; I wonder if one could go a step further and say there is the possibility that Persons with Autism (people first, condition second) might have a higher percentage of awakening than Persons considered Type Typical ?


Knasser,

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, and you bring up some very interesting points.

dont know about the over-diagnosis for selling treatment as autism in general is not something you treat but rather learn to live with...

still, if one want to go conspiracy theory, whats stopping a bio-tech company from releasing a designer "plague" of some sort and then sell the treatment?

bah, i dont know. its to each to get on some high horse on each side of the fence and then toss highly charged comments back and forth.

I think part is misdiagnosis. a lot of kids who might have been 'retarded' or 'mentally challenged' 20 years ago get the label 'autistic' which doesn't have the same siggma.

That having been said, we are, in 2071 capable of plugging people's brains directly into the internet. We have clearly a far better understanding of how brains are wired and since autism is, more than anything, a problem with the wiring that thereis a disconnect in contact with the outside world, it should be relatively easy to correct.

or with drones and tele-presence, able to compensate.

Or induce.



We spend half our lives in little rooms communicating with a computer screen and eleven years of the most formative period of our lives are spent conditioning us to focus for unnatural periods of time with little outside stimulation. Has it not occurred to anyone here that WE (the non-aspergers or mild-autism cases) might be the evolutionary dead end?

"This hammer's no good," said the psychiatrist to the screwdriver.

And you can sig me on that!

-K.

given how most kids and teens seems to be developing shorter and shorter attention span, not sure...

and speaking personally, social interaction is mostly troublesome because of all the built in posturing and rank checking...

hence dumpshock

I think the shorter attneiton spans can be blamed on DVD's, computer games and stuff like that.

as for the idea of a corp reqiring employees, ok that hadn't occured to me and is really really creepy- I LOVE IT!

That's just what the people who put attention span decreasing chemicals in our drinking water want us to believe.

Decreasing chemicals!? Those chemicals are ours by rights!

My thoughts:

The entire point of diversity, any diversity, is that we cannot predict what traits will be useful in the future. Circumstances change, and what was the perfect trait for todays circumstances may be a huge disadvantage tomorrow. Even in the present, different traits make a person better at one thing or another. The entire point of a society, at any scale, is to allow people to support each other, so that those who are weak in one area are provided for by those who are strong, and who provide for them when the area of their strength comes up. I find the 1 in 150 number for Autism interesting, because 150 is Dunbar's number, the optimal size for any human social group. This is about the number of people in a hunter gatherer tribe. I like to think that it means maybe there was one mentally different individual per tribe, provided for by the tribe and providing a unique outlook in return. I can get all hippy like that sometimes.

That said, the main barrier for autistics is Communication. Without some ability to communicate, whatever unique viewspoints their mental difference can give them are locked away from the rest of us, functionally non-existent. As the parent of an autistic child, this is where I hope so called "cure" research goes. I don't want to see autism eliminated, but I do want to be able to have conversations with my son someday.

Taking this back to Shadowrun: Could a set of existing disadvantages be combined to simulate autism in a character? I think uncouth is a given, what else would we need? Would we need a new quality?

Simply getting keyboards into the hands of autistics has allows many to communicate as human beings for the first time. How would DNI-based speech programs and other sixth world technology effect Autistics?

Might autism be more or less common among certain metatypes? Are there, for instance, more autistic trolls?

AIPS, the new Autism.

Oh man is it. I had a roomate that was an Ausperger. He'd take a shower three times a day, but wear the same clothes he'd worn, and slept in, for a week. When I had a cleaning crew come into the apartment to clean it (you could smell his room with the door closed) they went from charging me $75 to $150. They found a grand total of 150 pizza boxes and so many bottles of soda I could hear them rattle at night on the floor when he'd walk around. Which is amazing seeing he never had money to pay his bills on time.

Pizza boxes and showers sounds more like OCD than Aspberger's Disorder. Except for the bill-paying thing. That's just being a jerk.

Austrian actually. I had a rough patch in life and my shrink attempt to peg me with it because I described myself as being "awkward" in high school. So I read the literature. I didn't fit the spectrum. Sometimes you've gotta be your own doctor. Speaking of which: I've got a hacksaw... anyone got a cyberarm they want to sell me?

Only way I know for sure it was Aspberger's is that he would announce it as an excuse for anything he did wrong. I'm sure he had OCD too, but still, guh. "Chunky Butt" is a legend in my family.

yep, thats the bad side of being "labeled". all to easy to fall back on said label as a excuse.

sorting whats just lazy behavior from whats symptoms of the "problem" can be tough, and maybe not worth it.

if he got the label early in life, he could have developed the habit blaming anything on it to get of the hook with his parents.

but then some of whats described could be that he gets to focused on things that the only reason i remember to do something else, like shower, is because he had it hammered into his head a dozen times over.

it could basically be that he do not see the value of cleaning up, as he has trouble with social interaction in general...

still, using it as a kind of shield, plain bad. even tho i end up doing so myself at times, i dont like that i do so. its a cheap way out tho, so its damn tempting. kinda like how a frustrated player may just have his character shoot a npc thats not cooperating.

Wow, my first posting here in like, 2 years.

Until recently, I worked with children with autism, doing skills-trainer sorta work. So I've kinda pondered this from time to time over the years.

I'd think it'd be possible to have a 'new form' of autism in the SR4 setting. At heart, I feel autism is a stimulus/reception issue. Where the individual lacks the ability to filter out stimulus the way we do naturally. The world is consequently overwhelming, resulting in the creation of personal routines and adaptive measures that we would consider 'abnormal' in order to bring a semblance of calm to that individual's own world.

SR4 setting to me, is about stimulus overload. The amount of stimulus in the 'modern' world is amazing, with VR tech and magical stuff. Who knows, you could play it off as Autism being a foundation of awakening, or Otaku stuff. You can be born into a SR4 world and be affected by all the new potential genetic problems, or magical awareness issues, or whathaveyou.

I think that 'current day' autism would be more or less manageable and/or eliminated with the technology and medical possibilities in the SR4 world, but would be replaced with new variants that more or less manifest as 'current day' stuff.


As for aspergers, essentially, its a personal with otherwise normal functioning abilities, but severe developmental delays/problems in terms of social interactions. Its entirely possible for that posted example of being Aspergers, with a touch of OCD. Sounds like a rough situation in any case.

Now there's an idea...

There's a lot of different approaches to treating autism that's come about in the last few years, from social therapy to more controversial treatments such as doses of MDMA that have shown some marketable results in treating even sever autism. I'd imagine that with the drastic advances in medtech and pharmaceuticals in the SR world, not to mention all those awakened drugs that seem to be popping up lately, it wouldn't be that unimaginable to think that autism as it is known now has become just another manageable or mitigated disorder.
misdiagnosis happens on a regular basis, as with ADHD and Mania (particularly in the mid to late nineties) but that's in part due to the availability of treatment and the generally backassward drug system in the health care system. I'd go so far as to say that misdiagnosis and over-medication is more of a problem in the sixth world than conventional mental and social disorders. problems like childhood epilepsy and autism may be almost a thing of the past but dosing the kids to keep them complacent and happy in a controlled society might be the hotness. It's started in the present day, any child that's a little wild or slightly anti-social is hauled to the shrink for a little chemical realignment. It'd be even more predominate in a world where health care for the masses, despite the destitute, is all inclusive.
there would defiantly be new sorts of disorders that would have been found, but I have a hard time believing that common day disorders would be a concern for the majority of the populations... then again if you live in Glow City a little autism is most likely the least of your physical and mental problems.