anyone familiar with the anime "real drive"?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_Drive

i have been watching this, and lets just say you take gits:sac, bump the tech a bit (skin link style data transfer between people for instance) and park it all out on a artifical island in the south pacific.

thing is that the tone (if follows a girl, 15) is very off from how appleseed and gits is. and i get a sense that its almost aimed at being a followup to gits, where the events happening in gits is now 2-3 generations behind (kinda like how ww2 is now). but it never comes out so say so, only that the latter episodes talks about tech and events that seems very familiar to anyone that know gits.

another interesting factor is that the girl is not equiped with a cyberbrain, while just about anyone else around her have near ubiqitous access to the net. instead she carries around a kind of phone (basically a small rectangular device with a touch screen interface), and has to wear a really oversized helmet at school.

so when others share data with a thought or a touch (watching someone walk over and hold a hand up, like a police officer telling someone to stop, as a act of initiating data transfer is interesting) she has to get them to touch the phone/terminal.

all in all, its about as thought provoking as dennou coil was about AR, and how it could seamlessly overlay reality.

i'll see if i can conjoure up this anime. thankies.

Honestly, the diving metaphor net access turned me off immediately. I had a lot of series on my plate at that time, so my drop conditions were extremely hairtrigger (in fact, they still are).

one do not see much of it, tho...

If a weak metaphors for the internet(and sci-fied descendants) is a drop condition for you does ANY cyber-punk make it through your filters?

The conditions that evaluate for my continued watching of a series are complex. In that case it caused me to drop it. I factor in the social relevance of the work, for example, which is why I've read Neuromancer and Count Zero (and about half of Mona Lisa Overdrive, which was dropped on nothing much happening in the first quarter of the book). Also of note is my current schedule load (perpetually high since I've got a major media junkie habit) and how interesting the material I've already consumed has been. Interesting is evaluated partially as a function of how it deviates from previous media I've experienced in the area.

The way I handle the Matrix in Shadowrun is to ignore it.

Also, when Heath and I first sat down with ep 1 of Real Drive we had about 20 different series we were evaluating at the time. I believe that was the same season that also gave us Kaiba, Macross Frontier, Kurenai, Code Geass R2, Soul Eater and Druaga. There was kind of a lot going on at the time (even those last two turned out to fail utterly). Compared to just how mind-blowingly awesome the first episode of Kurenai was (IMO), Real Drive just didn't measure up. To be honest, I'm seriously thinking of going back and watching all of it now that's finished (or nearly finished, I forget). It looks interesting, and I've not got nearly as much on my plate now (I just dropped Ga-Rei Zero after the creepy and moody gave way to random gay jokes and bad shounen fightan. Series had so much promise too).

Speaking of Kaiba, anyone who likes their sci-fi weird, dark, and thinky should give this a watch. It's not exactly very Shadowrun, but it's worth a look all the same. It's very strange, and it plays heavily with the idea of memory as a commodity that we can exchange. There's a lot of stuff about moving your mind from body to body, and the effects that it would have on society. The art is pretty surreal, but you start to realise just how well it works for the series.

Also worth looking up right now is Casshern: Sins. Again, it's not very Shadowrun, but it's an interesting post-apocalyptic world where only robots remain, slowly dying from a kind of cybernetic disease called the 'ruin'.

Which makes it just like every other anime series exported to the West. I like GitS precisely because it doesn't use pre- or post-pubescent teens for its protagonists. The whole Japanese lolita thing, exemplified in Gunslinger Girl which I tried very hard to like, creeps me out. Masumane Shirow comics are good but this sounds rather mediocre at best.

Why?

It's worth pointing out that Gunslinger Girl is supposed to be creepy. It's a deliberate commentary on the Japanese fetishisation of prebuscent girls being forced into violent circumstances. If you can watch even a single episode of Gunslinger Girl and not feel seriously disturbed by the content then there would be something very wrong with you. The manga is even more unpleasant; it directly addresses several of the issues that the anime has to dance around, such as Triela's background.

Gunslinger Girl is an amazing series, because it assaults your sense of reason with a situation that is at one and the same time idyllic and horrific. The fact that the girls don't see anything wrong with their circumstances; the way they can go from playing with teddy bears to gunning people down in cold blood; is all part of the central theme of the story.

I also feel the need to point out that GSG very explicitly refuses to in any way sexualise its characters. There are no panty shots or swimsuits, or any of the other BS that you would usually expect from an anime.

Sorry, it's just that I'm a massive fan of GSG, and whilst I agree with you entirely on the "Japanese lolita thing", Gunslinger Girl in no way exemplifies it; in fact it deliberately responds to it, deliberately tearing back the curtain and reminding its audience, with a cold brutality, just how utterly horrifying this concept really is.

so GSG tries to do the same as neon genesis evangelion or watchmen?

this has more or less been put on the same page as cp in german laws recently i think . .

More or less. Basically it takes the whole "Sailor Moon" idea of "Young girl gets given amazing powers and told that only she can save the world from the evil monsters" and then transplants it into an almost modern day setting with some slightly better tech (a world that is on the cusp of becoming cyberpunk). So instead of "magical powers" you have cybertech, and instead of fighting evil monsters the girls are assassins who help the government kill terrorists. Suddenly everything stops being shiny and happy, and becomes creepy and disturbing instead.
Morally, it paints an incredibly complex picture. Ostensibly what they're doing is good and right (stopping terrorists from killing people), but it doesn't feel that way. On the one hand the girls have been conditioned and brainwashed into being utterly loyal to their handlers. On the other hand they're all "damaged goods", and the conditioning destroys the memories of their tortured pasts. Henrietta, for example, was the victim of multiple rapes, and was forced to watch her family being murdered by her attackers (all off camera, but it's still not a series for the squeamish). When the "Social Welfare Corporation" finds her she is in a catatonic state, dying from the physical and mental trauma. They erase her memories, repair her body with cyberware, and give her a new life as a government assassin. On the one hand it's horrific, but on the other hand the relationship she develops with her handler is incredibly close, as they begin to see each other as brother and sister. In the Social Welfare Corporation she finds love and friendship, and seems entirely happy with her lot.

The point of the series is to confront you with situations that defy any clear moral judgement. You can't just point at what the SWC is doing and say that it is manifestly evil, but you can't feel good about it either. A lot of the series focuses on the feelings of the handlers, and how they cope (or fail to cope) with the psychological challenges of their work.

It's a brilliant series, and anyone who is a fan of cyberpunk should watch it; it's a fascinating exploration of the dark side of transhumanism and the possible abuses of such technology. It was the basis for the best game of Shadowrun that I've ever put together.

funfrock, bravo on the wonderful "reading" of GSG. you sound like me in college trying to convince my comp-lit professors of the relevance of japanese animation ^_^

and since you mentioned it, have you watched Code Geass? while not very CP-ish, I especially found the strict class-based system in "occupied japan" and the various ghettos full of second-class citizens to be very intriguing for the way i try to envision life in the barrens/as SINless in SR.

Yeah, that pretty much summed up my college days too

To be honest I got half-way through Code Geass before dropping it, mostly because the other stuff I was watching held my interest more. I thought it was a reasonably fun mecha series, and the strategy stuff was fun, but it wasn't earth shattering. Given that Gurren Lagann was coming out at the same time, I kind of got my mecha fix there instead. What I saw was good, but not good enough to make me really want to go back and watch it again.

I've never subscribed to the whole "I'm commenting on violence in movies by making a violent movie" style of film-making that directors like Quentin Tarantino harp on. Not that I don't like Tarantino movies, I do, but I find the argument faulty. If the Japanese are attempting to bring to light the fetishism of underage girls in their society, tacking that on to an action/sci-fi series doesn't push the idea hard enough. The gunfights are too "cool". And while there were no deliberate panty-shots or the like, the girls were all portrayed as cute, flawless and doll-like in their non-killer modes. Not a nose-picker in the bunch and they were all paired with older male/fratelo handlers.

I will agree that GSG is probably trying to make some kind of point about inappropriate sexual attitudes. But until a Japanese filmmaker actually comes out and states, "Hey, you know how we portray women and girls in the majority of our media? It's pretty fucked up" I'm always going to cast a leery eye on most anime. I rather prefer outright adult sexualization as seen in the Faye Valentines and Major Motokos of the anime sci-fi genre as it feels more honest and the characters aren't treated as victims. Despite the outfits and boobage.

OKAY FAIR WARNING
this post contains GitS spoilers and I can't find my spoiler tag...

art is not so effective when the artist comes out and explains what is supposed to be going on. people resent being told by the creator of an object what sort of emotions/thoughts it is supposed to evoke in the observer.

ya know i never felt major kusanagi was sexualized - the whole point of the character (and i did see GitS the movie as my first exposure to the character, so that might have SOMETHING to do with it) was that she was barely human. Perhaps, more succinctly, the "overt sexualization" of her physical image combined with the almost non-existence of sexualization of her CHARACTER merely served to prove the point that she had traversed so far from what we as the viewers could understand as "human" (the only thing i can think of is in the opening of the first movie where she blames static from her sim-feed [or whatever it was, it's been a couple years] on it being "that time of the month"). Art thrives on those sorts of dichotomies, where the "real" as the viewer understands it is apparent from observation, but the "real" of the fiction of the art is bombarded into the viewer by sheer force of its presence in the piece...

japanese animation has suffered this sort of fate since practically as long as i have been aware of it, and almost assuredly far longer - what a western viewer may see as overt sexualization from her point of view might not necessarily be the response that the creators intended. which is of course not to say that all japanese people have a highly attuned sense of "art vs. smut," but that while the visual cues we may be accustomed to from our upbringing could evoke particular responses in us, one must always consider an artistic creation not just in the paradigm in which WE view it, but also in the paradigm in which it was created.

...*cough*ahem*

Spoilers can be done thusly ...

Couldn't there be an easier explanation for why so many animes are about heroic teenagers or younger kids? Maybe that these animes are for teenagers or younger kids? And these viewers enjoy stories about people their own age? Not every portrayal of a young person has its roots in pedophilia, people

yes, to a very large extent a lot of these shows about children/teenagers have them as their target demographic. but "youth" is also very iconic, which is why, as FF pointed out, that shows like Gunslinger Girl and Neon Genesis Evangelion use the age of the characters as one of the primary thematic elements. NGE especially was HIGHLY aware of the elements of its storytelling and its relationship to other popular series. but if you don't grow up with these shows, then you aren't really trained to separate the iconic elements that inform the viewer of the conventions (for example, teenage characters, robots with guns, transforming girls) from the thematic elements unique to that show which break the conventional mold (japanese animation, generally, tends towards, if not postmodernity, at least a high level of self-awareness).

as an aside, i am rather fond of youth as a thematic tool. it was why i really dug SR3 otaku - ex pacis and overwatch were both a bunch of children being manipulated on both a macro (the "metaplot") and a micro (the tampering with their bodies) level. i never could quite grok why they took so much flak for being "autistic decker babies" or whatever

In the case of a lot of the more iconic stuff, like Sailor Moon and it's descendants, very true, but I've also got to agree with Shuya that stuff like NGE is very, very, "not for kids" (NGE remains one of the few examples of a non-hentai anime series that actually includes a sex scene).

What also remains true, and what Yu Aida (creator of Gunslinger Girl) and other artists are clearly commenting on is a definite fetishisation of youth within Japanese culture. It's there, and the Japanese largely tend to ignore it. It has always been the place of artists, in any culture, to stand up and point out that the emporer has no clothes.

And to respond to Wesley's arguments, whilst I understand your point about the apparent incongruity of commenting on violence using violence, it's important to understand that the effects on the viewer are often far more profound. Take Natural Born Killers as an example. The film doesn't just portray violence; it portrays it in such a way that you are lured into percieving a pair of psychotic killers as the heroes of the piece, just because of the cinematographic techniques used to portray them. The sense of realisation that comes at the films end when you wake up and think "Holy crap, I actually wanted them to win" has a far more meaningful impact than someone just saying "Violence is bad, mmmkay?"
As for the portrayal of the girls in Gunslinger Girl, yes, they are perfect little dolls. They're supposed to inspire an overwhelming feeling of protectiveness in the viewer. You should want to look after them, keep them safe, the same way you'd want to protect a real child in a dangerous situation. This is vital part of the series, because as Shuya points out it creates dichotomy. You see them as something sweet, perfect and innocent, something you need to protect, but then you find that they're the ones protecting the big scary ex-military nutjobs that they're partnered with. In part this emphasises the uncomfortable situation that the series portrays, and in part it explores the vulnerability of the handlers. It's a series where strong, independent, self-reliant adult men are put into psychologically challenging situations that reveal their real weaknesses.

Sometimes I think people tend to read too much into things like art and literature, instead of just enjoying the story.

See, people say that to me a lot (perils of being an English Lit grad) but I just don't see it. Where does this "instead" of yours come from?

Look at it this way; Wesley indicated that he did not enjoy Gunslinger Girl. I explained how my reading of the underlying themes makes it one of my favourite series. Who is getting more enjoyment here?

(Not having a go at you or anything Wes, it just seemed like a good example for the point I'm trying to make).

I didn't actually say I didn't understand the phenomenon. I merely made a comment on it based on my observations and experiences.

I think a story (or piece of art, etc.) should be able to stand on its own merits as a story, without having to rely on other factors such as social commentary. If the story is good, and also contains such commentary, then far enough, but the story is more important than the commentary. The fact that Wesley disliked the story upon first being exposed should not be brushed aside with responses to the like of 'but it's important social work', or 'there are deep underlying statements about society' and the like. If the story is bad (or in this case disliked), then the author failed in his primary task of entertaining the reader, despite any semi-hidden or oblique cultural commentary.

Hmmm is it the objective of the author to entertain or to teach?

Yeah, stopped watching it after it became repetitive to the point that they started reusing sequences.

It's fairly standard stuff and the diving metaphor is over-emphasized.

I would say that each case is different. That being said, outside of educational text books and the like, in my opinion, the main objective of the author should be to entertain, with any educational agenda being secondary.

Let's take this case though. Not to put words into Wesley's mouth but it seems to me that if it was the objective of the author of GSG to entertain, then he failed, as Wesley did not enjoy the experience, and does not seem to have been entertained. If, on the other hand, the author's main objective was to educate the reader, and somehow shed light on the Japanese lolita phenomenon, then once again he failed, as Wesley did not seem to be enlightened as to the author's intent, nor gain new insights into the subject matter. So to sum up, in this case the author seems to have failed in either objective.

*(No slight intended to you at all, Wesley. I would use myself as an example, but have neither seen nor read the material in question, while you have been quite open in responses and opinions.)

Shirow worked as a teacher...

and looking at how the series ends, there may be some attempts at teaching in there...

btw, i think i read something about at least one writer disliking the act of disassembling a text in seach of deeper meaning, or the intents of the writer. sadly i cant recall exactly where i read it, or who it was...

as for the lolita complex, its a thing that makes me wonder about "westernized bad" vs "objective bad".

that is, can one claim that the euro/american view of contemporary life is objectively correct? or do one end up with some kind of self-reinforcing logic?

and btw, i mostly brought up the series as a source of usage examples for comlinks, skinlink and other tech. it can even be used to show the use of sculpted systems, as people go from the general diving metaphor into others depending on who's systems they access...

On the whole "Entertain or Instruct" debate, I agree with you Fortune, that the author's first concern should always be to entertain, not just to make a point. If you don't entertain then nothing else matters.

In that sense a lot of the differences here just come down to what people find entertaining. I loved Gunslinger Girl from the moment I heard the opening strings of "The Light Before We Land", but that really is just personal taste.

What annoys me is the way people use the whole "Just enjoy it" argument as a way of shrugging off any attempt to discuss a creative work seriously. It often seems to me that it's a knee-jerk reaction that people have just because too much of the discussion is going over their head. Sorry if that seems harsh to anyone, but it's the impression I get a lot of the time.

That wasn't my intention.

None perceived. You actually clarified the point I was unsuccessfully trying to convey.


Until 2003, Japan refused to ban the production of child pornography citing "business reasons". By any standard of a civilized society, Eastern or Western, that can objectively be perceived as "not a good thing." Hence, whenever I see children portrayed in anime that's targeted at teens and adults, I see it through a filter that says, "this is from a nation that abusing children (and women) is okay." And it's still legal in Japan to possess kiddie-porn.

If one isn't aware of the Japanese national attitudes, I think GSG can be an enjoyable work. But for me, it was nearly impossible to get around them. The snap-fire gun battles were definitely cool for their editing and animation and sheer visceral thrill but there was little else I could pull from the series that I could enjoy without feeling icky inside.


I apologize for hijacking your thread.

EDIT

my gut reaction comes from one to many "brow beating" related to that stuff.

there are some that use it to hammer home that they have a degree of some sort...

Sorry, I wasn't trying to suggest it was. I was actually trying to explain my own reaction.



I guess it's half and half. Some of it is people over-reacting to what they see as "elitism", and part of it is genuine elitism from people who just want to feel superior. Trying to talk about things in-depth without just brow-beating people is always tricky, often because some people can be touchy about it.

I just started Real Drive thanks to this thread. I have to say that the diving metaphor is definitely offputting at first, simply because it doesn't make sense at first. The series does not start out with an explanation of what the "Metal" really is, or why their is a "deep" part of it, or why that part might be dangerous. But it's Shirow. There is no such thing as a Shirow work that doesn't include technical explanations of everything. In fact, I read a book of his about magic, and it went into technical detail about the magic, so... yeah...

My position with the anime is that it's Shirow, so it deserves a chance to get good even if it starts out kinda weird. It actually looks like it's going to take time to explore one primary phenomenon, which will be nice. In GiTS, he tends to explain little bits of everything (this is how a cyberarm works, this is what an AI thinks about humans, here's some people making illegal rips of the human soul) and never gets into detail about anything. It looks to me as if this series, in contrast, really only has one central mystery which will dominate it, as opposed to GiTS which meanders around between disconnected plots of terrorists and techno-mysticism and never answers any questions.

It's Shirow. If it wasn't sexualizing something I'd be surprised. I think I've explained the cowgirl thing before

One of the best representations of SR style decking / hacking was Ed from Cowboy Bebop (ah, cow-x again). The way she visualized how she hacked into things always made me go, "you know..."

(I'm going to quietly slink back into the shadows again...)

God, I have that poster series burned to a CD in a stack of art school projects. The man is an amazing draftsman and I would give anything to be able to draw and render like him but, holy moley, he's perrrrrrrrverrrrrrrted.

Cowboy Bebop is an excellent example of AR-style hacking.

I think one of the most fun (read: evil) things I did when I ran a chatroom was destroying anime fans minds.

"Man, I love GitS!"
"Really? Have you ever seen his other stuff?"
"Like what?"
*insert link*
"Hey wow, he does por-wait, why is she-and the horse-guy and-what the hell is this? WHAT THE HELL IS THIS?"

It's been almost five years and I can still remember the times

anyway. Topic drift off.

That's because Cowboy Bebop is made of awesome and win.

At the risk of taking an unpopular position, I don't think it's all that objective. It's certainly rational to protect children from exploitation. But to a society that doesn't have puritanical roots like our own, it's not as readily apparent why there should be a taboo around children and sex. As I understand it, the Japansese call pedophilia a "lolita complex" and they consider it to be a fetish, not a mental illness. I've also been told that attraction to children over 7 isn't even considered part of this fetish, though I can't verify that. I'm not trying to defend it, I'm just saying that they have a very different point of view on the subject. I'll grant that certain things, like murder, are objectively reprehensible. That's something every society in the world recognizes, even those that still recognize defenses such as revenge. But not every society in the world embraces the western view of pedophilia. I know it's a sore subject, but if people respond to this by spewing vitriol about how it's absolutely wrong, period, no argument, you'll just be proving that your beliefs are based on emotion, not reason. To have a rational argument, you must confront different views and show why they are rationally false, you can't simply say "objective" and win.

That said, I just got to the point in Real Drive where they explain that the Metal developed primarily for the purpose of delivering better porn, and from there became integrated into society (i.e. Web 2.0). That made me smile, because if we do get to an artificial sense network like the Matrix, that's almost definitely how it will start

Lolita complex relevent.

Larme,
Lolicon is only treated as a fetish by Otaku. The discovery of tons of loli doujins in the apartment of Miyazaki Tsutomu had something of an impact on the Japanese public sentiment towards it. A lolicon is not an acceptable thing to be in the Japanese mainstream, despite what Nijiura would like us to believe.

Well, thanks for the link to gibbering idiots I guess? I'd rather not try to defend a position I know barely anything about. I'm ultimately just trying to suggest that you shouldn't object to animes featuring kids as characters just because Japan is more tolerant of pedophilia than other places. Besides, if you're correct Heath, then you do a better job of making that point than I have -- if lolicon is not mainstream, then it's a bit preposterous to believe that regular, non-hentai anime is associated with it, right?

Hmm...

The Japanese have always had a much different view of religion, sex, and morality than most of us in the US are used to. As an example, paid sex outside of marriage would be considered normal. Until recently, one prefecture in particular failed to implement laws for the longest time limiting teenage prostitution (can't think of it's name). When sex is 'just an action' w/o any moral or societal repurcusions or stigmas, why not sell out your body and make some fairly big money. It's in many ways, quite an alien culture. There are elements there which resist the adoption of western values, and seek to keep their own as well.

As far as thought provoking. Some of us do find thought provoking entertaining. There's no reason not to, that doesn't mean that it's flawed. Wesley just doesn't make the cut for the target audience. GSG doesn't strike me as all that controversial, especially compared to something like say Elfen Lied. (Lied == song, Leid == pain... two words in german you do not want to confuse... but that's one title where the ambiguity is definately there).

On Real Drive, I'm only a little over halfway 2/3rd through the series... and so far it hasn't really struck me as top flight. It's interesting, but it doesn't really grab me (hence why the viewing is going so slowly). The diving metaphor seems silly and forced to me as well. (then again, I've been on the internet for over 20 years now... so a lot of the over abstraction and such strikes me as patently silly).

While the sexualisation of young children is not okay in mainstream Japanese culture, it's the sexualisation of teenagers (particularly in the 12-15 range) that sets mainstream Japan apart from mainstream America.

After watching the first episode, I would classify it as much more transhumanist/post-cyberpunk in feel than traditional cyberpunk. But of course, I've only seen the first ep. Thanks for turning me on to it.

---

As for AR hacking, the best example I have seen of that, bar none, is the anime DennÅ? Coil. Which also dives into some of the possible social effects of VR/AR, especially on young children. It could be especially relevant to Shadowrun, what with technomancers, resonace, and all.

Elfen Lied was good, but on the whole I've found Gunslinger Girl much more thought provoking. Elfen Lied only ever really explores a couple of angles; it plays with violence in interesting ways, and I think there's an interesting reading of the whole "Harem anime meets horror" angle to be found in their, but Gunslinger Girl has much more subtlety to it. There's just so much to explore.
Similarly where Elfen Lied gets a lot of mileage out of being a straight up gorefest there's stuff in Gunslinger Girl that I found much creepier. It's what's never shown on screen, essentially, that makes Gunslinger Girl powerful. I mean stop and actually think about what happened to Henrietta before she was found by the SWC. It's about one of the single most horrific moments that I've encountered in any story; it just happens off screen.



Dude. Cheerleaders.

Mostly I was linking for post 3 or so, when Crissa pretty much says "you know, it isn't like the US doesn't have any creepy things that just don't get questioned".


I consider it a logical fallacy, especially when it comes to Gunslinger Girl. A series that does not do fanservice.

There's a lot Otaku pandering in anime, given that they are the largest and most profitable market. But, quite often the young girls are in there because young girls are cute and Japan likes that stuff (I swear, even earthquakes get a cute mascot character in Japan). Cute young girls will get fans, and fans will react well to them getting a relationship or an arc or something. They might end up in a suggestive scene or two because the fans that like the character may feel gypped if their favourite character doesn't get the same treatment as their older compatriots.

Or, it could be that there's a section of the market that is into that stuff. However, any series that attracts non-Otaku audiences in a major way will contain much less fanservice of young girls because they seriously lose sales for that shit.


You say this like it isn't a universal element of all cultures ever. Teenagers are adapted to be attractive to the opposite sex and the mechanisms that decide what you're attracted to don't change massively as you age. That is why 30 year old men want to date young girls and see cheerleaders. Your realisation of what is available to you restrains your choice of what to hit on, not your age.

Note that, in some Japanese prefectures, some of those teenagers you mentioned are legal.


Eh, the Japanese do put a value on keeping your virginity until marriage. It's just that the younger generation is fully aware that their parents are not everywhere and happen to disagree with their parents about the value of virginity and they know they have decent sexual health aids. There are few repurcussions because anonymity is accessable (in Tokyo at least), not because their culture has no problem with it. Their culture has a problem with it, for very valid reasons.

Don't Forget about Triela , we learned what happened to her in one of the manga volumes, I bet Hillshire has nightmares about what he saw in the video his superiors showed him when he asked to be assigned to the child smuggling case.



True and the whole Catholic school girl thing,the west is just as guilty of sexualizing youth.

...

While the sexualisation of young children is not okay in mainstream Japanese culture, it's the sexualisation of teenagers (particularly in the 12-15 range) that sets mainstream Japan apart from mainstream Australia.

I kid. Mostly.


People in their late teens have generally reached the point where they're physically attractive to older members of the opposite sex, sure. I was more talking about how Japanese culture, on average, tends to be more 'okay' with early teens being sexual.

Of course, as mentioned, every culture has some wierd shit that just doesn't get questioned.

Here's some thing that might be of interest, a article about Japans lack of law on Virtual child porn. http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2008-...porn-criticized