by which i mean you gear gets grabbed coming over the border, they send it to a sorting warehouse to be examined and possibly claimed later. how much security would these places have? i'm thinking a bit, but not exactly 24/7 veteran security rigger on the job, guards with massive military training ect. but it wouldn't be 3 overweight humans with baseball bats, narcolepsy, night blindness and the combat paralysis flaw.
as well, where would you put it? this is in seattle, 2061, and we're playing SR3

Personally, I would think it would get processed to scrap pretty quickly. If the border patrol confiscates a bunch of assault rifles and grenades, they're going to deal with them fast. Also, if it's the type of place that runners could find, it's the type of place that would be highly secure. If *I* were running a fascist government, and had to store (instead of destroy) military-grade confiscated weapons, I would put them in the arms locker at my local military base (there's one near seattle, I'm sure). It seems to me like this would be the type of thing that would be impossible to track, because if it *was* trackable, then runners would be knocking it over left and right.

Just my 2c

-DrZaius

actually i know from personal experience that they don't destroy it nowadays. you could legally be allowed to have it, and the paperwork just isn't there. or in sr terms the files got sent to the wrong SIN. which would happen. so there'd be a waiting period.
and i'm talking about the place where everything gets sent before it gets processed. the local customs warehouse gets everything from the bullet for a necklace you're not allowed into the country to the 2kg of coke you tried to smuggle in your bag. then they take it to where ever it needs to go.

Then I would say it depends on the setting of your game. If it's analogous to today's world, probably several security checkpoints, and finally 2 guys with pistols. If it's a 1984 big brother terror state, where large groups of disenfranchised trolls and orks could do a lot of damage with a warehouse full of arms and illegal contraband, significantly more. I guess I'm saying that whatever you perceive the threat to be of someone breaking into this place, based on your campaign's setting, would be how much security they have. I suppose that doesn't really answer your question directly though 4 guards with SMGs- there, better.

-Dr Zaius

If it's evidence it goes into an evidence room. These are typically very secure, as lots of cases depend on chain of custody. It's usually in a police station full of armed cops behind a lot of well secured doors with cameras everywhere. Consider that they are designing this to keep out people like the Yakuza and the Mafia, who have access to lots of money and firepower.

I believe you're referring to stuff seized by security, NOT by customes. They're completely different beasts.

A firearm will be seized at security because it is not considered a safe item for bringing on board the plane.
A firearm will be seized by customs because you don't have a tax stamp on it.

Security is normally out-going (before you board), customs is usually incoming (disembarking).

Most of the stuff security picks up is stupid things of little or no value. You can buy bags of pocket knives from government auction sites. They pick up hair spray and baby bottles. The vast majority of it is trash. It's probably stored in large bags in the security office somewhere, then moved to a storage room in the airport until it can be sold or thrown out. The items have been voluntarily relinquished, so there's no need to protect them for the owner. The only security would be whatever happens to be 'in the room' at the time (which is still a lot, considering it's an airport).

Dangerous items such as firearms, explosives, etc. will generally be held pending a court case, to charge the person with carrying a firearm or whatever onto an airplane. Expect it to be down at the DA's office or in a police evidence cabinet, under heavy guard.

Customs primarily seizes things like alcohol, food, money, etc. You can roughly divide this into a few categories;
1) Items for pending criminal investigations, which go to the DA's office, as above. This would include anything which is being intentionally smuggled, especially illegal items, or anything from people who are count illegally crossing the border and are to be charged for it, but isn't living or a health-threat.
2) Items which are considered health hazards, or which violate animal and plant restrictions, such as jams, plants, seeds, pets, etc. These things considered dangerous, because of the environmental impact if they're released. They are almost certainly destroyed in short order.
3) Items which haven't had the tariffs paid on it, such as antiques, alcohol, cash, etc. I do not know what happens to this stuff. It's usually of high-value. I don't believe the people have a right to get it back, but they can always fight for it, so it's probably stored somewhere.

Because it's not associated with bagging any criminals, and it isn't dangerous, it's probably stored in a medium-security warehouse somewhere out of the way. This stuff is of value, so it warrants some security, but not a whole lot.


If my runners got caught running the border, they'd be in a high-security jail pending trial (which would come soon). Their gear would all be held as evidence in another facility, under several locks and keys, with strong electronic and personnel security (keep in mind, they also want to make sure no cops take anything). Evidence can make or break a case, so you better believe a government willing to pay a few hundred thousand on lawyers and a trial isn't going to skimp on security. IF the runners escape, they'll be better off not going after the gear. Expensive gear, needless to say, may require more guards.

Also depends on whose border you were caught taking contraband over. Assuming that your characters get out of incarceration/holding cells for charges of carrying illegal items/outright smuggling, either legallly with SINners using lawyers or a breakout for those SINless Shadowscum terrorists out there, then they'd have to track their stuff to whatever holding area the border guards used.

Now, if its a megacorporate zone you breached you'll have to penetrate that corp's territory again and I'd normally assume that they'd have regular security patrols, physical intrusion countermeasures on site and competant personel. Remember that your illegal stuff is probably high risk and not low security providence like a warehouse full of the latest soft drink products and stuffers.

If its a government, then its all down to what sort of laws they have regarding your rights, the illegality of the goods you're caught with, and how much they like or dislike your character's attitude/face/metatype/nationality/religion. IE: Seattle Metroplex is UCAS and thus you can bet they'd store your stuff pretty much in the same ways the US does today. However, the border patrol guards are government-affiliated but they might have to hand over the evidence of your crimes to Lone Star for your trial. In which case, the stuff would then pass into Lone Star's custody. Unless it was a federal law that you broke with the stuff, in which case the FBI might requisition it and hold it in their own HQ. (Think rescuing Morbius in the Matrix.)

Now, if you got caught by the guys on the other side of the fence, IE: NAN tribal border guards, then they might take a more proactive view on breaching their peaceful lands with your "hunting ordanace" and detain it at a military camp. Or it could just be handed over to a local small town sheriff's office. The only real problems you have are if the stuff is highly No-No contraband - IE: BTL smuggling into Quebec, or say illegal decking gear into the Tir, or poaching/talislegging from the NAN.

Then there's also the possibility of the guards not being totally true and upright individuals. Maybe some of the gear goes "missing in transit" or was never logged in, or perhaps the storage guy down at the local contraband containment centre is actually boosting his paycheck with some sideline business in supplying the shadowmarkets with their commodities. Hey, where'd ya think your fixer gets all those nice toys for you from?

Something to rememeber is that the Sixth World is ALOT more corupt than things are in Real Life, so the Runners may be able to get their gear back on the sly cheaply and easily.

Wait, you mean there's folks that DON'T chuck a couple of thermite grenades into the contraband if they're about to get nicked?



-karma

If you do that then you no longer have the chance of paying a reasonable bribe and going about your biz.

Yeah, forgot to mention that corrupt border guards might be susceptable to bribes - works a charm for the Cascade Ork. In the long run though, if you get off without chucked in the slammer or the morgue it usually safe to count your caontraband as gone. Play it smart and cut your losses. However, if the guards happened to grab your bonded magical foci or your souped-to-the-max land cruiser then perhaps you want to stage that retrieval run. I suppose that you could do it just for kicks or rep though. (Or to get back the stuff you were smuggling for the yak...)

Bear in mind that, as heavy as security in these warehouses may be, it's still probably less than that of the top-secret corporate labs Johnsons seem to fond of sending runners into. So if your team is the sort that routinely pulls off successful runs against that sort of place, they have a fair shot at getting away with rainding a customs or evidence warehouse.

Also keep in mind the Idiocracy rule: Corruption, while not genetic, spreads like a virus. I'd say that greasing some wheels would get you whatever it is you seek... especially since most rental cops are dumber than you.

As for security at holding yards, it could be as complex as an army or as simple as a guard dog. Depends on the difficulty of your setting. I believe the default for SR would put a remote Corp Mage and Rigger (off site) with spirits and drones (on site) alongside one or two guards patroling at all times. Star or KE might also make infrequent passes depending on the yard owner and local policlimate. This would be at night of course... daytime would see more on-site personnel.

Keep in mind that making personal enemies of national police forces is typically not the best idea.

Only if they catch you . If shadowrunners gave up on runs because antagonizing certain people or organizations "was not the best idea", they would never do anything but cower under their beds.

i forgot to mention that the items in question were seized through the mail when the Fake registrations were brought into question, but not enough to outright screw everything up. it was being sent from the CAS to seattle. Lone star grabbed it and it's awaiting processing.
thanks for the info btw guys. you're being a real help:)

Since the original thread has finished, I'm assuming not many will mind if I stage a thread-jack ...

Whats the best way that you've found to get goods past customs? Or alternately, how much is the usual bribe for group of customs officers on a patrol boat?

The main reason I ask is our group have recently 'found' a frieghter (Long story, lets just say that Humanis trying to transport a group of runners where 4 out of 6 aren't human is a bad idea) and at some stage we're going to need to either smuggle illegal goods or ourselves in and out of a country.

Depends on the customs officials. In real life you don't have to worry about customs ship as long as you dock at international areas. However, if I customs cruiser does come along side and you are in national waters than the ship may execute a search and seasure of any contraband the ship is carrying UNLESS that contraband is destined to a country where the contraband restriction does not apply. Also false statements of cargo (i.e., smuggling) often carry with them heavy fines and long jail terms.

If we would be looking at a bribe, in real life it would be looking at 10% of the value of the cargo.

Cargo ships cannot be stealthed or hidden. Instead you have to rely on regions where monitoring shipping is lax or then fly the ship under a false flag. In essence you have to buy a ship a new SIN.

As for smuggling things. You move contents at sea or then smuggle them out of the international areas on land. You falsify container shipping codes so that containers are offloaded correctly, but their contents are not the same. Customs does make spot checks, but they are not often enough or thorough enough to count.