A player of mine (infiltrator style adept) requested to buy some gel rounds with stunbolt spells anchored to them. I'm trying to a) come up with a fair price. b) decide if I want to be nice and let the amount be per 10 rounds or if I want it to be a per round cost. This will also set some precedence as it has never come up before.

Since an anchored spell costs 1 Karma per Force of the spell I was thinking a base price of 2,500 per force of the spell. I got this from a 2 Karma = 1 BP = 5,000 formula. This does not include cost modifiers like the base price of the ammo, how much the talismonger likes you and the risk involved seeing that the spell could be tracked back to the caster.

Then the whole question of how nice I want to be in regards of does this cover a per bullet or per 10 rounds. By RAW I get the impression of a per bullet cost, but what can I say I'm a nice guy. I'd like your input though.

God this reminds me of a Chris Rock skit on raising the price of bullets. *paraphrasing* "You know he must've pissed some guy off. They put fifty thousand dollars worth of bullets in his ass."

You have obviously decided to be nicer than me. My players (one of which might well see this) would know not to ask. Here is how I look at it:

1. Why would an initiate waste their time and effort on something like that? A stunbolt on a bullet, besides the time (read Karma) spent making it, that is a tool that has no purpose other than to attack someone/thing. Now, the shadows are an interesting place, but shooting someone is still a crime which often warrants investigation. I don't know about you but no shadow mage I know wants to 'lend' his astral signature to some unknown and upcoming assault; especially for a 1 use item.

2. Triggering the spell would be something of a discussion. If you said upon contact for the bullet then I'd say GOOD LUCK loading the shell into a magazine without contacting the bullet.

3. Since each bullet would effectively have a new version of the spell (casting stunbolt again and again for each shot) I'd say that the outrageous price any mage would charge would be per bullet, not per 10 (after all, that is drain x10 if the spellslinger was sitting there casting at the same targets that were being shot).

So, in order for the player to do this the character would need the appropriate contacts to point him towards an unhinged powerful spell slinger willing to do anything more money, regardless of risk. Furthermore, the runner would need the funds to pay for an entire magazine worth of ammo.

Of course the runner could simply try to find a contact to get him things like explosive rounds if he needs that extra punch. Would be much easier to find and more cost efficient by a LONG shot. Then again, if life is so hard that you need to ponder a stunbolt on your ammo you might consider just shooting again, or if necessary learn what NOT to shoot.

Point your adept to Capulse Rounds filled with Nerostun and DSMO. More stun damage for a fraction of the cost.

I'm not that nice If my player is "smart enough" to pick up Street Magic and find a way to create magic bullets, he's smart enough to pick up Arsenal and learn to order/make the things I've been firing at him for months...wait...

In general I'm hoping the outrageous cost of magic bullets is enough of a deterrent to make him look for more cost effective solutions like capsule rounds.

I wouldn't make the triggering conditions so stringent. I would say you could set the conditions as the spell triggers upon contact with the target, and it can work. It's magic, not like you're programming a controller on a computer, I would say that the spell could trigger based on intent. But yeah, the cost and challenge of finding a magician to actually do this is so enormous, that I think the other concerns are moot points.

Plus, if the runner has enough money to blow on this, they REALLY ought to be doing something else.

In my mind I covered point 1 under the whole how much does the talismonger like you and associated risks, part of my initial post. You other points are things I had already considered. I'm personally more inclined to let it be a per bullet cost, with a don't wast my time unless you're getting a full magazine/clip disclaimer as you suggested.

I never said I didn't consider the whole magic bullets thing silly as there are better options

Yeah I was going to make it as a contact upon target spell trigger.

I totally agree with your last point. I'd just like to see the look in his eyes when I tell him what a fair cost of such an item would be.

Everyone loves magic bullets, but the SR mechanics just don't it practical at all to use anchored spells like that. Let's put it like this. A mage is about as rare a first world doctor. An initiated mage is about as rare as a first world doctor that wants to further there craft and not just make bank helping people. Now convince someone like with that much going on for them that what they need to do is sell you a piece of there magical potential.


What is the nuyen to karma ratio you use at you table? Take that as the cost of "raw materials". 1 karma to 5000 is a low ball bench mark thrown around on DS (for a moderate run 3 karma and 15k is pretty reasonable). So getting extra damage from a spell is going to cost 5000 for each extra stun in "raw materials". Now mark up you need to consider is that the magician is creating an item that will likely be used in a crime they have no control over or involvement. That is a huge risk. Then factor in supply. Finding an initiate who would do this for money is like finding an accomplished oncologist who will do something illegal personally damaging for money. I'm sure they are out there, but they are WAY less common than people who want quickened spells. So more markup. I think 15000 to 20000 per karma is pretty reasonable for a material cost. Not 15-20k per 10 bullets, not per 1 bullet,15-20 per karma. The cost of a quickened spell is 1 karma per force. So force 6 spell is likely going to cost you a 90-120 k, and getting the work done will likely take a runs worth of work to get the service done (finding/creating someone in the position to quicken a bullet).

Now if you really want magic bullets the easiest way to do it is to bind a possession spirit to the long term service of "possess whatever bullet is in this chamber". Get yourself an spirit with energy aura, and a customized gun that can handle the aura and you are good to go. About once a combat turn you can fire a flaming bullet. No issues with triggering, cuts ItnW, and isn't priced per bullet. 90-120 k for a year's supply starting every fight with a magic bullet /might/ be worth it.

I know this is a little off topic, but is there an additional cost to add DSMO to a capsule round, or it it just the cost of the toxin and the capsule?

DMSO is 10 per dose. pg.82 of Arsenal

Hmmm.... considering that the spirit possessing the bullets would take damage every time the bullet collided with a target, I wonder how long it would take before it (or a replacement spirit) a) was disrupted, b) got tired of being 'hammered' once a combat turn, c) decided to resist a little more than usual when being bound by this particular mage.

Peter

ItNW handles most of that. And yeah I could see the spirit resisting a little more than usual, but you only need 1 task on the spirit. And it might be a suck job, but the spirit does get a good chuck of cold hard karma from the deal rather than the usual burnt incense or whatever "binding materials" usually are

For ItNW to handle the damage from a typical weapon which has a base DV of 5 or 6, it would have to be a F4 or F5 spirit. Imagine yourself to be INT and LOG of 4 or 5. Would you like to spend a year being hammered against hard things over... and over...and over...and over...and over...and over...and over...and over...and over...and over...and over...and over...and over...and over...and over...and over...and over...and over...and over...and over...and over...and over...and over...and over...and over...and over...?

Man, would you be thinking of ways to screw over the bastard that did that to you.

Peter

Trigger: Sufficient impact the threshold of necessary force being large enough that it is impossible to achieve by human strength alone but small enough that even a short-barrel and low pressure ammunition can propel it at the necessary velocity.


Cost: Cash for karma rate +10-20% More would be gouging; less would be stupid.

Risk to the magician: This is exactly why no one in the world makes guns both in Shadowrun and in real life. If somehow a Colt pistol was used in a crime then it would be obvious to the authorities that Colt made the weapon. That's just too much of a risk for any same business to take, which is exactly why Colt doesn't manufacture any sort of firearm and instead sells ice cream.

In case you missed the sarcasm, an anchored spell, even an anchored combat spell, has many legitimate uses and the manufacturer of an item cannot be held liable for the criminal misuse of that item. Given that the entire point is to have a more reliable less-lethal alternative, there is no reason for the magician to assume that it will be put to any nefarious use. Self-defense is the most likely purpose of such an anchor .

Possessed bullets: Do nothing. Depending on your rules interpretations, they might bypass INTW. However, since materilized spirits also will bypass INTW, one can't then use INTW to negate the damage from hitting a materilized spirit.

Corporations have a lot more protection than people in RL, and even more in SR. It's reasonable to think that you could fallow a lead from a magician that made magic rounds to the guy that shot them. Similarly it is not reasonable to think that you could lean on Ares/Armalite until they gave up the shooter. If a runner takes out anyone worth such a bullet do you really think that investigation is going to care much about civil rights and due process?



On a re-read, I realize that I was counting slamming into something at the super sonic speeds as suffient to trigger +4 of a melee attack. Not letter of the RAW, but pretty tame ruling IMO.

And as to the whole ItNW thing: