So one of my players asked me why satellite link is only 500 nuyen for signal 8 as compared to the cost of upgrading your commlink and I told him what I believed to be a reasonable assumption, that satellite links are not as portable as a commlink. He pointed out that a microdrone can get a satellite link per Arsenal so why wouldn't it be portable? I had no answer for that.

What do other people think about this?

They are *less* portable. And they have lag. Ignore the drone behind the curtain; if you wanted consistent, you're playing the wrong game.

Standard upgrades don't fit on micro and mini drones

Also at satlink has signal rating -10 as soon as you enter a building (it's not in the rules, but use some common sense people) and then you are stuck with the "terrestrial" signal rating again.

I think the high signal is meant for jamming purposes, etc, but I'm AFB.

Ohh SNAP, Standard Upgrade rules to the rescue.

To be fair I only remembered it because I recently toyed around with possible Bust-A-Move exploits

Point him that the 500 nu cost in the arsenal is the cost of the ressource to modificate the drone, not the cost of a working satellite link.

Having the drone modified will add cost for manpower, plans, skills (Hardware) and tools required (a simple kit here).

It is quite normal that a Satellite Link in spare part is a lot cheaper than a mounted one.

Thanks for the save guys.

In other news, I *love* the word 'modificate'. mod-IF-i-cate.

Tomothy, subtract 5 karma from your guy for a failed rules challenge.

A satellite phone's barely bigger than an ordinary cellphone.

Not in SR. "Includes a portable satellite dish."

The satlinks they're talking about in SR are a bit heavier duty than a satphone. You're talking a link that's going to be able to transmit a lot more data than just voice - hook your comlink into it and access the Matrix, download imaging from the sat for a realtime map of the area. It would require a dish and a power source.

Sat phones include a portable satellite dish too, lol. Built inside the phone =P

I imagine the SatLink has just been copy and pasted since SR1 or something?

The important thing is a standalone power source - otherwise the data transmissions are going to kill the power supply in a matter of minutes.

The power argument is a stretch I think, given other ridiculous setting efficiencies like cyberlimbs that operate on the bodies bioelectricity, but wouldn't a 300 nuyen power pack (used in lasers and the gauss rifle) supply an incredibly long operation time for little to no space? Ten shots from a laser or gauss rifle is a lot of energy.

It should, but then we get to the point where we wonder if it could be fitted on a microdrone. =P

iirc, the smaller sat phones base their existence on a system if low flying sats.

the SR version seems to use geostationary sats however, making them less likely to be able to trace where on the planet the signal is coming from.

Well, there are optional rules in Augmentation where the players must pay 1% of the cyber's cost as maintenance, this could probably include batteries.

Much easier than that: this is what it takes to reach the satellite.

Weren't there rules in Unwired (I think) where you got to choose to connect to low earth orbit or geostationary satellites, and the former gave better response time but where easier to trace your position while the latter reduced your response but for your location was more hidden?

Anyway small drones are from the size of a commlink to the size of a dog right, so anything that mounts into one is still going to be something you can carry in a pocket or a pouch with no problems. I really don't expect it's satellite dish to be an actual parabolic dish either, more like a fractal wire pattern inside the case of the device, similar to modern cell phones.

This should be something quite portable if we're going by the data available to us, making it not work indoors is probably a better "fix" if you care about the nuyen difference from signal response. Then your players would at least have to mess around with placing the satlink on the roof and retrieving it later. Alt 500 nuyen they may just treat it as an expendable anti-jamming device I suppose.

indeed there is, p50-51 to be exact.

-- Uhh you might want to read the rest of that wiki article. You can buy satphones that use LEO constellations that are no larger than a typical cellphone. Check out the newer Iridium's for example.

-- The satellite rules in Unwired are absolute bollocks and best ignored.

Poor failed Iridium.

Or, You know, you could use the rules as they are, because they are not set in the world of today... I know it is a revolutionary Idea, but there you go...

It does no good to pan all the rules when you do not like them... If you do not like them, There are many, many games out there that provide more realistic technology rules than Shadowrun... and they are not nearly as fun to play in my opinion... Shadowrun should be fun, not a constant battle to get the rules as close to our reality as we can get... let go, ignore all the things that you know about technology in our real world, and enjoy it, you will probably have a lot more fun with it...

Sorry... Had to be done...

Keep the Faith

I've always ruled that Sat Uplinks can only link with matrix satellites, which is great if you need the matrix in the amazonia jungle, but bad if you need to send an encrypted command to your drone.

They could actually try playing the rules and them either rewrite or omit the stupid ones. I'm told that some companies actually edit and play-test their rules and do crazy things like have people who have actually fired an automatic weapon review the rules for automatic weapons. I know it's a revolutionary Idea, but there you go...

This is blasphemy! This is madness!

Indeed... You are right... But a simple Question here... Have you ever fired an Automatic Weapon? Assault Rifle, Light/Medium/Heavy Machine Gun? I have... And Guess what... the Shadowrun System is not a real life simulation of how they work in the real world... Took me a while to reconcile that with myself, because I have been into Weapons (of all types) for over 40 years... But you know what... Shadowrun is not real life...

I have played games that mimic real life closely... and you know what... their rules tend to really suck (Even though they actually had someone who has the experience evaluating and modifying their rules) for fun game play... Some people prefer that type of game, I prefer a less simulationist approach myself... Shadowrun is not a Simulationist Game in my opinion...

You (The Generic You) can complain about the rules until you turn blue, but making them more realistic will not make the game more fun (at least in my opinion)... all it will do is make it more realistic... Most people that I game with have enough of the real world as it is (They live it every day, day in and day out), and roleplaying games allow them to have a bit of non-reality for a time... My Motto is to Never let the real world come between you and your fun...

Keep the Faith...

Uhm, drones are controlled over the matrix...

He means commlink <-> Matrix (via sat) <-> drone, instead of commlink <-> drone directly. And yes, that's certainly how satellites work, but just make sure your drones have sat-links. Although, it's hard to imagine situations where this is really needed except stay-at-home rigging.

I don't necessarily want the game more "realistic", I want the rules to be less stupid and ignorant.

But that is a User Opinion, not Fact... What some consider Stupid and Ignorant, opthers really, really like... It is a matter of taste...

Keep the Faith

On demand air support


But as to the "small drones could fit in your pocket" argument, that's not really so. I think maybe the confused author was envisioning a Cyberdeck when he wrote comlink. +4 concealability is the same as an SMG. The small drones as described are about the size of a cat or a dog. Besides, according to the (now errata'ed lol) section of Arsenal dealing with Drones and recoil, you can fit a Light Machine Gun on a Small Drone. Do you take that to mean that you can now fit an LMG in your pocket?

I meant to point out that you're almost always going through the Matrix anyway, just not via satellite; so, if you're out of normal Matrix range, you've probably got your drones near-ish, or they're too far to help. But, yes, if you have jet fighters available… maybe useful.

You don't need jets for viscous air support options. The Ares Heimdall has an effective range of 18km and can cover that ground in as many seconds. Not quite "snap your fingers, blow up a tank" power, but that's still outside the range of a rating 6 signal by a good stretch. So, you get a GTS Tower and load it up with a sat link and 10 Heimdalls and you've got a nasty mobile weapons platform capable of destruction on demand, and you can keep it well out of range of any nosy Radar stations.

The Multi-Launch Drone Rack and the Ares Heimdall - making it happen, for you.

Hmmm... Should I?......




"Madness......."

Well, the Heimdall is a jet, right? Or a rocket. Hella fast, is what I meant.

Indeed it is... Hella Fast that is... And I love them...

Keep the Faith

don't forget most satlinks are dish units, not a satphone type.

So it's a directional rating vs an onmidirectional signal. (kinda like jammers)

Plus sat links have drawbacks, latency is a problem... a big one for matrix actions.

Only if you are not using LEO Satellites... LEO Satellite communications are considered instantaneous by the rules. Higher Orbiting Satellites do indeed create latency, which is a huge problem as a Hacker, but any good hacker has ways around that particular problem (The easiest of which is not using such satellites in his communications paradigm).

Keep the Faith

LEO sats have a limited connection time and require tracking dishes due to that. I will have to check but it's like 30min before connection is lost at most.

So you got 30min of coverage before the hacker poofs mid run.

So the only constant connection sats are far earth orbit geo sats.

unwired, the book that introduced sat latency, seems to assume that a sat enabled device comes with a tracking dish by default. Or at least do not care about coverage time of the sats in question.

another option would be to get a blimp up there with a retrans unit. Whats the name of the drone blimp again?

Nothing says that you cannot automate your Satellite Link a bit... after all, you are only going to need it if you are beyond the Limits of a Signal 6 (10 Kilometers isn't it?) connection, which is not very often in an urban environment... You would generally not use a Satellite Link for Intra City Communications.

Keep the Faith

Maybe that's what the SR writers thought. In the real world they do things like call handoff, so you'd think that in 60 years them might be still able to do that.

http://www.iridium.com/products/Iridium-9505A-US.aspx (old phone)
http://www.iridium.com/DownloadAttachment....ttachmentID=574 (current phone)

Well, yeah, there is that too...

Keep the Faith

I'm fine with the various limitations of satellites. It provides more meat to play with, instead of simply saying 'you get 100% Matrix nearly everywhere, and literally everywhere if you spend 500¥'.

Not to mention in RL incliment weather can render them useless... so it's never a 100% signal.

Even the LEO sats can have troubles with interference

This is true...

Keep the Faith