Leonization how soon will it come around in real life?

The major social ramifications of this are massive and only thought about by science-fiction and fantasy authors.

And me. I'm a transhumanist with 2x cryonics contracts - Alcor is my primary, Cryonics Institute is my backup, just in case anything happens to Alcor while I'm in the freezer; this makes me paranoid even by the standards of the cryonics community.

But, yes, I plan on living forever in real life. I just may be dead first for a while, but I plan on getting better.

So, you hope they will learn to cure death (and cellular degradation) in the future? That seems a little bit too optimistic...

Also... doesn't the very process of getting frozen destroy a huge percentage of your cells? Something with expanding water forming crystals and destroying your cellwalls? Same as with freezing strawberries... all you get back is tasty mush.

I mean i loved the idea, but unless you are perfectly flash-frozen... no chance. Nah i will be going the digitalization way. But for that we need a way to completely read out minds - which pretty much includes tapping EVERY single damn nerve going to and from my brain and months in a coma.

After that the transfer into a virtual neural network should be childs play *g*.

As we say in the cryonics community - "Being frozen is the *second* worst thing that can happen to you." It's a gamble to be sure, but any chance of success is better than a guaranteed chance of permanent death and oblivion if you're burned to ashes or fed to the worms. In general, we follow developments in emerging nanotechnology and biotechnology avidly.

The short explanation - during the cooling down process (no one is "flash-frozen"), you're basically having your cells suffused with anti-freeze by being hooked up to an intravenous pumping system; this is standard for modern cryopreservation preparations. Poke around the Alcor website (alcor.org) for further info (they have some excellent pages on that very topic), but so far extensive studies have shown that current cryonic preservation methods are *very* good at preserving cells from ice crystal damage, including brain cells (which are obviously the most important ones). CI (Cryonics Institute) also has a good site to review, if you're curious.

It does lead to some ethical and legal questions, and to some extent the question is why? At some point either you or everyone else you know will be dead due to accident, crime or war. So what is the point of going on living? Also, the earth is pushing 6 billion+, who gets the treatment? Everyone? Not likely, probably just the rich and famous. Which will eventually lead to class warfare cause there is nowhere for the masses to hope to strive for.

I'm just going to leave this here:

http://www.365tomorrows.com/03/21/birthday-boy/

Why? A strange question - to keep on living, to not cease existing, that's why. And I'd rather be still alive even if all my friends were dead (though it should be noted, I've signed one of my friends up as well so far). As to cost, any new profound technological achievements are pricey at first, so naturally the rich will be the first consumers. As time goes on, the price comes down. That said, I do work in the healthcare field, on the financial analysis side of things. HC corporations are the closest thing to SR megacorps I know - they're run by people who apparently really do have calculators where their souls ought to be. The *instant* "leonization" becomes cheaper than the associated costs of increasing health problems with older people, you'll start seeing it mandated into health insurance contracts, on pain of hugely higher premiums if you don't. Trust me on this. Again, if you want to see a SR megacorp *right now*, up close and personal, work for a large healthcare corp.

As for overpopulation, the obvious solution is to legally restrict reproduction if you're having the treatment, but I'm sure that will be a *lovely* social and legal debate - coming soon (within decades) to a country near you, when the initial treatments should be developed, probably prolonging life perhaps twice as long as now (my rough best guess, from what reading I've done). Of course, you're overlooking the biggest pro-death faction - the religious types, who will cheerfully insist on dying regardless of any treatments to the contrary. That's a big population control lever right there, and will probably continue to be a considerable balancing factor, population-wise, for some time.

Error.
Loophole found.
Printing report:

What if one has children before going on the treatment?

Yup, that's a problem, all right! Extra credit fun - enforcing the law *after* treatment!

Like I said, a *real fun* social and legal debate coming our way.

I'll just drop this in here:
http://www.365tomorrows.com/04/20/retroact...rainforst-cafe/

They just go and shoot the little rascals as part of the package deal.






-k

Bluntly, uninspired tripe and class warfare propaganda. The writer should be spanked.

You do realize that they write one story every day yeah? And about half two thirds about 90% of them are dystopian? Class warfare propaganda comes up a lot. In that class warfare is a rather dystopian concept (the upper class gets better treatment, etc. etc.)

Oh, and did you miss the end bit? Where the upper class twat died?

Point was, if you're going to do Retroactive ZPG, the result isn't going to be nice.

I, too, plan on going the neural-uploading route, assuming it becomes available (and affordable) in my lifetime. I want a Terminator endoskeleton.

Personally, I'd prefer uploading as well. Given the choice between VR and RL, I'll actually take VR. That said, I have to *live* long enough for our technology to advance to that point.

I've got one for that too:
http://www.365tomorrows.com/11/21/transit/

Your point being? Anyone can construct worst-case scenarios. It doesn't mean that anything similar to that will actually happen.

That there are potential downsides to a digital transition. Such as that your brain can't be digitized (for whatever reason).

Ah, I know another one that might be better (that one I read....two days ago, hence it was still fresh in my mind):
http://www.365tomorrows.com/05/11/retirement/

And an atomic bomb will set the atmosphere of the whole planet on fire...

Everything has potential downsides. The key word there being "potential."

edit: Changed my mind. I want to be a Transformer, preferably Soundwave. His voice is badass.

IIRC, there was money being put on if this would happen or not right up until the first test...

You could tell who the Apocalyptists were by how they put their money.

Ah, The Living Tax.... What to do when there is no more elbow room because people won't die and are now producing more kids. I wonder if the birth-rate will reach a singularity before technology will.

Wars cure population.

So does starvation, disease, crime, and colonization.

And as we all know, the rich who can afford to live forever, are the ones who are on the front lines.

(And here's a story about immortality: http://www.365tomorrows.com/11/07/immortality/ )

Despite these little trite and uninspired propaganda pieces that you seem so fond of, I'm willing to bet that many (if not most) people will prefer to lead longer, healthier lives when the option is presented to them, regardless of any such ridiculous luddite "cautionary tales" to the contrary. Life extension will be presented in the form of healthcare treatments - don't like, don't get - problem solved.

Propaganda?
Really?

They're flash fiction.



I was sharing a speculative piece of fiction relevant to the discussion. Namely because:

Heh...

They may be "relevant" fiction pieces, but you are (please correct me if I'm wrong), using them as arguments to support your anti-life-extension stance, and I'm saying that I find their value as such to be anything but sound and reasoned.

I am merely presenting what speculative fiction exists around the topic.

I personally have no qualms with wanting to extend life. I'm merely saying that you should be careful what you wish for.

Do you want to die every year so that you can stay young and never learn from the experience?
Do you want to have to fight and murder in order to maintain your living conditions because "everyone else is immortal too, but we keep having kids"?
Do you want to digitize yourself and end up in a tyrannical society ruled by those still Outside the machine (and find yourself one day whisked away silently and deleted)?

Each of the possible avenues of immortality has its cost. Both to the individual and to society as a whole.

(And on the topic of propaganda, is a one-on-one fight to the death with an alien bent on world conquest, winning means they leave, losing means Humanity surrenders unconditionally propaganda? Sentient musical tracks? Interstellar plumber worshiped as a god? A spaceship loaded with cryosleepers that's been out in the black too long and has developed its own culture? Smart bombs getting a little too smart and refusing to go to work because it requires that they sacrifice themselves for us? A child's spaceship wanting to be a ghost for Halloween? Trying to save everything and not having enough space, in a world where every subtle nuance can be observed, digitized, cataloged, and stored?)

Regarding the above “avenues” of longevity, of course they all sound terrible – they were obviously meant to. They also sound ridiculously *implausible* so I’m not going to waste 1 second worrying about them. I’ve heard (and discussed, on transhumanist/nanotechnology sites) and among futurist-minded friends, some plausible problems with readily available life extension (and accompanying possible/probable post-economic social transformation with a sufficiently advanced level of nano-manufacturing that is almost certain to go hand in hand with it), but those scenarios aren’t among them. If we’re submitting speculative fiction pieces on this topic, I’ll submit Marshall Brain’s various works on these subjects; some are hopeful, some are downright worrying – which is usually about how reality eventually turns out most of the time. My point is, the scenarios you’ve submitted (prior to this post) are so “out there” that they really just constitute borrowing trouble where it not only doesn’t exist, but almost certainly won’t, either. As far as the social problems of life extension go, if the mere existence of a relatively small “immortal elite of the rich” is all we have to worry about, we’re getting off easy.

Regarding the second set of stories you’ve submitted, I haven’t looked at them yet, just the ones from your previous posts. If there’s better fiction on that site, you certainly haven’t done it any favors by presenting what look to be its worst examples here in past posts, but I’ll have a look at these new ones.

EDIT:

I will also submit, as a semi-whimsical entry with a serious message, The Fable of the Dragon-Tyrant, billed and regarded as the first transhumanist fairy tale.

But we aren't killing each other off fast enough. Or groups that make sense. KILL THOSE WITH OIL! SAVE THOSE WITH FLIES!

So, the invasion of Canada is happening, when?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Plan_Red Fear it, ya crazy mountain savage. Haha

Forgive me, there's 2166¹ stories that have been posted, and I haven't read all of them (I'm currently working my way backwards again and I'm at last October). Much less remembered every single story in detail sufficient enough to find it again.



There's two thousand one hundred and sixty some stories on that site. Sturgeon's Law states that 90% of it is crap. And 90% of it is crap (although there's only been one story I was unable to read, it was some kind of social commentary on the uneducated...or something). They have a sizable collection of regular writers (about six?) and occasionally post things written by readers. Some of them are god awful, some of them are real gems. The ones I posted "in my previous posts" are rather middling. The one about the one-on-one death match is a favorite of a friend of mine, so probably is one of the gems. If I could find the one I was physically incapable of reading, that's probably the worst ever submitted (the entire thing was written in colloquial uneducated southern drawl....I think, I'm honestly not sure).



I can't think of any reply to this bit. I read and enjoyed the story, but can't form a coherent sentence about what I think of it, with regards to the discussion.

¹Give or take, due to leap years.

Former mountain savage. I'm in the prairies now.

I fear Canadian Bacon more, however.

I've actually seen some of that movie. My physics professor in highschool was weird.

Was he Dennis Hopper?

No. Although that looks like a fun movie.

My physics teacher provided materials for us to have hot chocolate in class. We watched several (not-physics-related) movies (such as Top Gun). And I loved reading Discover Magazine just to point out things that had recently been disproved (he hated that so much, but he had his ways of teasing me back).