I have my runners smuggling something from Seattle, all the way into Tir Tairngire. I liked the sound of a road trip. I've read through both (I believe Third Edition) books : Tir Tairngire and Native American Nations Volume 1.

I'm having a bit of trouble picturing what Salish-Shidhe council lands are actually like, as in how the "feel". Obviously Seattle and Tir are pretty oppressive places, one with Megacorps and another a fascist/racist group of elves running the show .

Salish-Shidhe on the other hand seems relatively "laid back", but how do people live?
I'm not American, so as such not terrible enlightened to Native American's and how an entire nation based on that culture would feel.
The runners will be traveling down interstate 5, what kind of settlements and people would they bump into?
I'm picturing an incredibly less dense population than the sprawl and infinitely more open space and trees, generally amicable people with a couple of lunatic shamans here and there, maybe some paranimals.

Also, border crossings: How should they play out in game terms? The entry into SS will be relatively painless, with maybe some warnings for a couple of things for the runners to cover up better when crossing into Tir (I have the runners doing a mission where the procure a VAV for entry into Tir). Would it be better to guide them towards skipping the border unofficially?

NAN nations would be very suspicious of a group of Anglos comming out of Seattle on a road trip. In 2072, tensions are pretty high between the UCAS and Salish, and consequently the Seattle Metroplex as well. If they are going through official routes, at the check points they should have themselves scanned, poured over, and given alot of hassel. Guns and weapons would be a big fat no, and if the magician doesn't have a liscense that may also be cause for concern.

After the border, should they stop to get a bite to eat at the local diner they'll be considered strangers and some of the residents might decide to pick a fight with the Anglos. The response may be different if there is a native american with them, an ork, a dwarf or a troll. Racism, national pride and a bad history makes anyone coming from seattle a target.

Watch First Blood (Rambo 1). It is filmed and set in Oregon. The unreasonable hatred the sheriff has for Mr. John J can easily be ported over to a group of SR anglos travelling in "indian country".

I assume that you are looking for information on what the small backwoods areas are like. For the big cities like Vancouver, Boise, Bellingham, Kelowna, Kamloops, Spokane, etc you can probably just go to their tourism websites. As a Vancouverite I can tell you that we are fairly different than someone from the island (Victoria) or the interior (Kamloops). If you find any photos of Merritt, BC I'd hold that up as a good example of backwoods and Native heavy. The Nicola Valley is full of reservations.

Really, really play up the difference between the metroplex and the boonies. The pacific northwest has fully recovered to pre-colonization levels in a lot of spots, and to someone used to a Stuffer Shack on every corner and omnipresent AR, the Great Outdoors is going to be a serious shock. Think isolation.

Yes. Hope you don't have any Technomancers. They're...not going to like this road trip much. It's going to be very, very quiet...

From what little I have been able to find though, the SSC is way more tolerant of "anglos", to the point there many card carrying (aka SiNners) SSC citizens are probably just as likely to have a skin pigment tone that is lighter as darker. So I would disagree strongly that they would be hostile in that manner but the lesser amount of wired world as compared to magical I think is a valid point. Its not like Seattle doesn't have NAN people and those who can sympathize with their neighbours in it. And its not like places you pass through won't have Stuffer Shacks or at least formerly known as Stuffer Shacks, Atzlan had some good market penetration years ago before relations soured, its the UCAS corps that probably have had little inroads into the local economy. I would be willing to bet many places still feature wired more than wireless in places other than decent sized populations. And if you peruse an atlas on Washington and BC, there are sizable populations here and there.

Militarily though, they have probably been trying to maintain alertness and readiness, so think more than just scanners, they probably have a much higher proportion of their forces being magical and more practiced in dealing with magic creature related issues. Magic probably has a harder time getting smuggled than tech would be my guess. Yeah, anything even remotely seeming like military crossing the border is probably going to be treated very harshly, though I think it was Tir that was way more likely to shoot first and ask questions later IIRC.

Personally, I always wonder why Seattle hasn't been annexed by the SSC from the UCAS ages ago though, its not like much of Seattle's heritage doesn't come from NAN ancestry and lands. Bet there are some nice Shadowrun stories in that.

Something in the original treaties with the NAN, IIRC, so the UCAS could keep a Pacific port town, or something like that.

Personally I keep imagining the higher prejudice that non-NAN runners will face (like what was described above). I don't mean to be racist or prejudice in the following, but in living near some reservations myself I've seen some members of the local tribes can be quite the assholes towards us "white man". I've got no reason to believe such sentiments of the ignorant would not have increased in Shadowrun, particularly those that might be feeling all the bolder because they got their land back from the "white man". Sure, there's gonna be those that'll be more civil to an Anglo runner, but unless they're an elder I'd expect those to be cowed by the more aggressive, racist ones.

Whatever makes your game more fun.

The key elements are sparse population, a more natural environment (Mind you, the urban areas of S-S territory are modern cities, with power plants, cars, teh works, but the rural areas are WAY more nature-y than city folk have ever seen), and surprisingly mild racism... the S-S keeps an eye on Seattle, true, but also provide power and allow for quite a few travel visas. Heck, a roll out into the country is probably the vacation plan of some of the middle class, and there'll be a section of S-S territory that's tourist friendly. Get off the beaten path a bit, however, and you'll find more small towns, where the people aren't part of the tourism industry and are bitter about a couple hundred years of opression. Some good talking could derail most problems, but, there's always going to be a looming threat. Nobody will try to kill them, but the implication that you should leave town. and soon, will be strong.

One trick you can use is to have friendly folks speak English, while unfriendly ones only speak Salish. Oh, they *know* English, so are well aware of all the crap the team might be saying about the local hicks, but refuse to speak it to the 'foreigners'. Someone (A small town sheriff who is told about the anglo visitors as soon as they get into town) will show up in time to break up the tension, and he'll be willing to speak English, but quite obviously wants the crew to move on and get out of 'his' town.

In general, you don't get the STRONG reactions in S-S territory, since they have good relations with Seattle and the UCAS. Those, you reserve for Souix and, even moreso, the Ute territory. (Well, Ex-Ute, now PCC.)

Curious, however ... what's the mission that's sending them out?

Didn't they already have that with California at the time of the Denver Treaty? I know things go totally pear shaped with California later in 2036 but in 2018 the UCAS still very much had several much better ports with California, especially not ones whose water ways to international waters would be traveling through NAN controlled areas. Is it something to do with overland routes maybe? Huh, even in that respect the route to UCAS is a shorter distance over ... desert? And fewer mountains? And more existing highways?

And I appreciate you trying not to be racist, as I currently live on a former reserve and am married to and have a daughter who in the fictional setting of Shadowrun would be a NAN member. And while you are not far off that some of them are assholes towards me because I am a human mutt of light complexion, the vast majority of them, especially those who are younger and didn't go to a residential school, are not even remotely racist but instead realize how we face similar problems with wealth disparity. But with the bigger populated places, especially with aging populations, racism on both sides is still very much a thing. But that is an IRL thing but it does help shape my imagination of what things are like in Shadowrun. So I am pretty sure you are wrong that it would be the young that would be trouble but the elders instead.

But when it comes to the SSC elders though? Thanks to the Shadowrun wiki that used to be linked here at Dumpshock and a few threads that have come up about the subject of the NAN, there is also a handy PDF the Kickstarter for the Shadowrun Returns game shared http://harebrained-schemes.com/shadowrun/primer/ , I found it interesting and plausible that many places that found themselves in the conflict in what would become the NAN member states, especially in the SSC territory, Canadian and US forces were just as likely to find themselves facing "white" partisans ambushing them while trying to put down the brown "menace". Its not unlikely that the SSC being very friendly towards metahumanity was a direct result of this - westerners in general had pretty much had enough of Ottawa and DC with the racist "re-education camps" being the icing on a corporate ecological plundering shit cake. Howling Coyote breaking out of prison with magic on his side didn't just inspire NAN people's to bring the heat. How each NAN member state reacted to the question of "whitey" was very different, the SSC was notable for being the most friendly and the now defunct Ute the worst.



I think you are pretty much getting it bang on with the use of language when it comes to cultural outsiders but try to consider this, this stuff went down 2009-2018, its now 2072 there abouts, so that puts a man or woman of fighting age, lets say 12+ (yeah, I know the issue of child soldiers is touchy but lets face it, when genocide is on the line, kids are going to pick up weapons too) the survivors and founders of these places are going to be 60 years of age or older in many cases. Generously, that is like 3-4 generations later in the various possible families involved.

IMHO, that means there would be quite a bit of mixing going on. At this point, the youngest generation is probably going to be a really nice looking multiple hair and eye colours, tanned looking bunch with quite a variety of exotic facial features. You know what is probably going to be the main identifier of someone who hails from Seattle, something related to technology and how that functional capability translates to form. So when I go reading about animated tatoos and what not, I am pretty sure the various cybernetic, wireless looks of Seattle and other metropolitan areas are probably UCAS cultural hubs stand out and places in NAN member states are probably a mix of their magical culture and wired tech in the smaller communities and magical plus wired tech in the larger population centers. Surely others than myself have noticed, various bits of cultural trends and technology make their way out to rural areas at a slower pace - before the internet, it seemed like in the country side music from a decade ago would be just being discovered and getting popular at dances while in the city the new dance music just keeps churning out at a hectic pace. The same seems to hold true of technology, want to find a VHS player? You're probably going to find it in the countryside in some elder's home. Heck, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if you were from the Seattle poorer areas, you would find it easier to blend into the poorer areas of the SSC but city cultures would be somewhat incompatible except on the higher business levels.

If I had to think of something that would make you stand out the most as an outsider in a more magically oriented culture it would be augmentations that lower your essence. Cybernetic augmentations are probably frowned upon by cultures more heavily influenced by shamans and adepts. Also identifying in some way as belonging to a group that hates metahumanity is probably a big no-no in SSC.

Thanks for the responses guys, given me a few ideas.

Well, I'm not entirely sure how plausible it is but the runners have managed to get hold of a Naga that an interested party in Tir wants (alive).

The Crimson Crush was starting to bring Shade into Seattle, financially backed by a larger syndicate trying to fill the gap in the market left by tempo but not wanting to over commit them selves thus outsourcing the job and testing the waters through the Crush. In turn the Crush was using Shade (A compound that lets even mundanes astrally project) as a way of legitimizing their cause to other street orks (getting them high and getting spirits to communicate with them on the astral plane). Any ways said Naga was involved in all this because he was the contact for the Crush to get in Shade from SE asia.

The runners have since shut down the Shade smuggling while at the same time kidnapping the Naga, who some one in Tir now wants.
So they now have a 10 metre long awakened snake in the back of their van, heavily doped up of course.

I always wanted them to smuggle something, but the extra difficulties of smuggling a massive magical snake appealed to me.

Just going from a personal experience, CanadianWolverine. Granted this was about 20 years ago, but during an away football game (and on a reservation) I had to go to the bathroooms to fill the team's water bottles. Couple of students from the opposing team tried to make me use the girls' room instead. Never had that kind of an issue off-res, even with our biggest rival school.

But taking from a Denver mission, where the party can visit an Amerindian bar (granted, in the Sioux sector), all of the players' social skill tests are at +2 on the threshold if they're not Indian, and still at a +1 if they speak Lakota. Got a really bad, but funny, story about what one play group did that time.

And for the sake of the team I hope that naga they've kidnapped isn't a SINner... Could prove a little extra problematic if that 10m snake is a registered citizen of the SSC.

Unfortunately you're looking at a pretty straight bomb down the old I-5 (Interstate Highway #5) from Seattle to Portland. They could take the scenic route along the backroads if they want but it turns a ~3-4 drive into a 6 hour drive or so. Unfortunately the SSC is pretty anglo friendly so as long as they aren't broadcasting UCAS SINs they should be fine.

For local flavor: a big flock of strom crows ushers in a nasty rainstorm which combined with some thunderbird strikes washes out the road. Runners are forced to hunker down for the night giving them a taste of mountain/forest camping. Maybe an encounter with a local Sasquatch tribe that is distressed that they have kidnapped a fellow sapient metacritter. Salish Rangers are pretty balls-to-the-wall hardcore so you could have a patrol run across the runners. If you really want to get frisky you could get them caught in the crossfire of a Cascade Ork versus Cascade Crow skirmish.

Something to keep in mind with SSC is that while all the tribes are "salish" that doesn't mean that it is all happy go lucky. Locally the Musqeaum band used to be fairly warlike and tended to lord if over the Sto:lo. A Coast Salish band is very different than an Inland Salish band. On top of all that the SSC is a COUNCIL not a Federation. This means you have factionalism within nations and between nations. Sinsearach priorities are not the same as Makah priorities are not the same as Cascade Ork priorities. A Cascade Crow living in the Nooksak river valley is going to be very different from a Cascade Crow from Vancouver (especially since Vancouver is 50% non-Caucasian whereas Bellingham will be largely Caucasian). The smaller nations -- like the "Salish", Makah, and Sinsearach -- tend to be more unified just because there aren't many of them and they live in very small geographical areas. But a Sinsearach tribe will be more interested in disputes and diplomancy with the Tir than a Makah living in Olympia will likely care.

I have to second the 'Ooops! You gotta camp' bit. A flat tire, an overheat, or something similar that requires some downtime that'll make 'em rough it for a night will give the city kids some nice grumbles. Then again, at night, they might see stars for the first time,like, ever.

Cheops, that is a beautiful post, brings a tear of joy to my eye

Being from the area I'm just doing what I can to help.

-- Short answer: it depends on which particular area you are in.

-- Longer answer: It's called the Salish-Shidhe but many of the tribal groups are not Salish culturally or linguistically, and historically either never got along or didn't deal with each other (and honestly still don't outside 'big picture' Native issues). The inland tribal groups basically have nothing in common with the coastal groups except for a very general political alliance which is why you can have stuff like the Cascade Orks be a reasonable part of the setting - there really isn't much internal unity except a "we'll stick together against YOU OTHER GUYS" The Shidhe part is almost a joke since the Tir split off but it sounds cool and evokes memories of a more optimistic time so why change it (doubt they could get the council representatives to agree to remove it anyways). For the numbers to make sense population-wise I assumed in Shadows of North America that a good chunk of the local 'anglos' suddenly discovered they had native ancestors -- which in some areas isn't even that unreasonable. I've basically thrown my hands up on the population and economic stuff though - it just makes your head hurt thinking through it all and isn't worth it.

-- I have no idea what the current canonical answer is. Most writers seem to forget that there actually ARE cities and and stuff aside from Seattle in the region. I imagine Boise, Missoula, and Spokane are still important and doing whatever it is that people do in the balkanized former US to make a living.

I love the analysis, guys. Lots of useful info. Keep it up!


Aside from the fact that SR was written by Americans and the story line keeps the remnants Canada and the USA apart for the first few years, I always wondered why Vancouver didn't become the UCAS enclave on the west coast. It's the second busiest port in North America after New York, and a large, cosmopolitan city with a significant segment of the population of Asian descent. There are already serious ties to Japan and Hong Kong.

Vancover isn't in the UCAS is why. (Or did you mean why they took Seattle instead of Vancover, since both are coastal cities in the S-S? That, I don't know, otehr than the pro-America bias.)

Which reminds me, I need to talk to James about the flipside city of New Echota.

This.

Given the periodic resurfacing of the Cascadian idea, the feeling of being looked down upon and neglected by the rest of Canada, corporate abuses during the Resource Rush of Shadowrun, and the Balkanization of North America I can conceivably see many Pink/Brown/Yellow skinned "Anglos" joining SAIM/NAN. But then I've always assumed that the NAN was full of non-natives who were fed up with the federal governments/corporations/police and told them to frag themselves. There should have also been a big shift away from the cities and to the rural areas during VITAS.

I live out on the peninsula near Aberdeen, and I can't possibly tell you how many timesI have driven that route.

First of all, when I talk about light forest I mean trees about 5-10m apart, lots of ground cover (ferns, grasses, small flowers... look up Pacific Northwest flora for moreintel). Medium forest is about 2m-5m apart, and dense forest is extremely dense... little more than 1m in between trees of various sizes and shapes. This description is extremely generalized... you cannot "can" the PacNW like this, but it gives you an idea.

Just South of Fort Lewis you have what passes for medium dense forest. Lots of ground cover. Nisqually Valley (between FtLew and Olympia) is a vast flood plain of tall grass. Medicine Creek runs through it. The Nisqually act like Salish-Sidhe folk... A LOT.

Olympia is fairly green, but mostly urban. There's several shopping centers (including a Wal-Mart) along the route. In the South part of Oly you can look out over Budd Inlet to he Capitol building (it looks a lot like the U.S. Congress Bldg) and Capitol Lake.

South of Olympia is medum to light forest. Yeah, it gets rugged real quick outside the cities around here.

Around Centralia and Chehalis (mostly tribal areas) it's relatively flat and grassy, surrounded and penetrated occasionally by medium and light forest. Outside the urban areas it gets real rugged and dense real quick. South of Chehalis you can see Mt. St. Helens to the East. There are 2 real routes out to visit it. Off the 5 here it gets rugged again with medum to light forest. Up near St. Helens the rolling hills turn rocky ad mostly bare real quick in the zones of destruction.

Keep going South and it stays relatively flat, if not rolling a bit, until you get into Battleground and Longview... then Vancouver. Battleground is grassy, Longview more forested... and Vancouver is downright urban, like Olympia. Welcome to the Tir.

As for the populace...

In 2030 I would expect some drastic changes in the outlying regions, but along the 5 I would think the Salish would keep things pretty much as they are now. In fact, the few cities I have mentioned (they are the largest along the highway) will likely be the only ones to remain after the Salish take over. Given the stringent manner in which the resettlement occurs in Shadowrun, I would expect these urban centers to become more industrial (read: 'green' industry) as well.

By 2070 things along the highway will likely have become even more stark, wth rather strict laws about settling or building of any kind outside the urban centers. One would expect some serious degradation of whatever structures existed prior to the resettlement (See "Life After People" on the History Channel for some ideas). The forest and rolling, semi-volcanic landscape all up and down the 5 would likely make the Wireless very unreliable at best except in the urban zones. The Salish never struck meas very touristy... but with St. Helens in the region there will likely be a few tours available (but few usable structures like homes and cabins and such remaining) there would likely be a visitor's center up near the mountain, a few gardens and such, and several crappy historical societies that talk a lot about deforestation and the evils of Weyerhauser. Expect lots of burger joints, too... the local natives LOOOOVE fatty foods and gas station faire.

Hope this helps

That's been my read as well, Cheops. As has been pointed out before, there simply aren't enough Native Americans around to populate the NAN. Some fluff has talked about other ethnicities being present, it's easy to assume that in fact there are large numbers of non-Natives in the NAN. I'd imagine this would be particularly the case in the PCC, with its corporate structure.

For S-S itself, I've usually run it as having lots of different sorts of communities. there'd be some total back-to-nature types, rejective technology. Some technoshaman sorts who have renewable energy and live as green as possible, then you'd also get cities and towns that look much like anywhere else in the developed world. Culturally, I can see them mentoring magicians to benefit society rather than snapping them up into corporate jobs, so I tend towards giving S-S a higher percentage of magicians in, say, hospitals or similar positions than you'd see in UCAS (outside of corporate hospitals, anyway). If this is the case in your game, you'd be likely to see mages (particularly with healing spells) in smaller settlements tha would be entirely magic-free in UCAS.

Wow. there are Vancouvers all along the Pacific coast. In Washington and Oregon as well as B.C. Huh.

I looked into it, and Shadows of North America and some of the 2e books really touch heavily on the topic of non-NAN in NAN territory. Target: Awakened Lands also tosses a piece or two into the puzzle.

As I read it, the Treaty of Denver fragged North America. Given.

NANs want purity where purity never really existed in the first place (tribes HAD to intermingle back in the day to get genetic drift).

No less than 1/8th (one grandparent) NAN was given citizeship (using "genetic markers" such as high cheekbones, etc). This was not enough to generate competitive economies.

Non-NAN were allowed to remain in NAN territory if they had critical skills (such as magic... or tech, ref: Pueblo), significant contributions, or enough money to pay off the new governments.

By 2050, populations were well off enough for economies to thrive in the new environment.

Shadows of North America pp113 goes into depth on the politics and social environment, but much of the historical detail is still up in the air.

Given that Gaeatronics is HQed in Olympia, expect that area to look much like Renton does today... GTronics is about as influential to it's home community in Shadowrun as Microsoft is to Renton today. However, that's the only big MCorp I see with sigificant assets along the I-5 south of Seattle.

The Smuggler's Guide to the Salish on pp121 is also helpful.

I would expect a border checkpoint just north of Nisqually, probably in the Dupont community just south of Ft. Lew. Not much room there for traffic, though, so the border would probably be pretty hectic. Bear in mind that in real life the northern edge of Lacey/Olympia is only a 10 minute drive from the southern gate to Fort Lewis... less than 6 miles. The Nisqually would DEFINITELY be in Salish territory, so if you push the boder crossing into Lacey, you give yourself more room for traffic... just fence off the highway through Nisqually... about 4-5 miles of fenceline then, with the highway being UCAS. Yea, ok... put the actual checkpoint in Lacey... there's a WalMart there, anyway.... but I digress.

I'd have a commercial drone truck lane or two wth quick scan capabilities but no real stopping... SSC doesn't have infrastructure for many commercial industries, Vancouver is an awful long drive from Olympia, and... meh... SSC would likely import a lot from the docks in Tacoma through Fort Lewis and Olympia... and pissing off the shipping companies would be seriously counter-intuitive.

The tourist lanes might be pretty long... a mile or so. Looks like SSC is pretty strict. Expect to wait about 15-30 minutes per car. I'm reading about scanners and some seriously anal checks. Better have a good SIN... rating 4 at least... and expect some awakened inspection as well.

As for legality, it's not discussed in much depth. I'd say given the presense of certain corps in SSC, you could just say that if it's legal in Seattle, it's legal in SSC... but any F's or R's in the availability will likely be a game changer. SSC would DEFINITELY make you buy new licenses for most F and (certainly) R gear. Some exceptions might include awakened gear and nanotech... the SSC would be VERY paranoid about nanotech. There's this old legend about the ants in the Pacific Northwest... but I digress again.

Perhaps a route East from Seattle to Yakima or so would be better? Sure the desert sucks, but the Cascade Orks in Snoqualmie and Snohomish appear to have a soft side for smugglers... in this case, truck your players through Ellensburg and Yakima via the I-90... then south and west to Centralia or so. The big border crossng on that route would likely be Council Island... Touristville, SSC.

In terms of genotype, I figured that the NAN of 2070 wasn't far removed from the Mexico of today, where the "purepblood" types are 10% of the population but occupy all the high strata of society, the "mixed" make up the majority, and the "pinkskins" make up a small chunk... probably 80% and 10% respectively.

The ones with truly strong ancestry are in all the leadership positions, most of the CEO types, the politicians, and so on. Mixed races include hispanics (Who are NAN, due to Aztlan and the PCC) and non-Amerinds who could dig out some old photos of family members (Great grandma was half-Chickisaw... so I'm in, right?) ... the smallest population are those with no native ancestry at all who weren't kicked out. Note that the NAN have "Reservations" of Americans that were too stubborn to leave and weren't worth the effort to roust. There are also several "Pinkskin Tribes" of people who decided to go tribal and adopt back-to-nature ways, despite being Whitey McWhitebutt from the suburbs. At this point, some of those tribes are on a third, or even fourth, generation, and have generally been accepted by most.

From a sociology standpoint, this is *fascinating*, but not that useful for most games.

I believe that the spirit of this thread is to figure out atmosphere for the I-5 corridor through SSC. It's about a 7-hour drive, so there would be a stop or two. I'm ALL about fleshing out the RP.

Not in Vancouver, British Columbia. Today we are 51% "visible minorities." Due to Lisa Smedman being a local historian and writing the "Tails you Lose" novel the SR version of Vancouver is still just as cosmopolitan as it is today. This means that the SSC pretty much left Vancouver alone in terms of conducting business.

As I mentioned I can see the SSC being VERY lenient in terms of who is "native" and who is "anglo." Maybe you have to be full blood to sit on a chair in Bellingham but the non-blooded population likely would have been willing to aid the SAIM cause which means that the NAN would have had to make large concessions during the War. It also means that the PacNorWest would have one of the most inclusive (Tir excepted) system in the NAN -- which fits pretty well with modern sensibilities of the area.

Heading out into the wild outdoors may also open up for the real crazy that is SR. Think awakened fauna, complete with teeth and claws that much of humanity has not faced since the development of gunpowder.

Heh. Yeah, which means there really is no 'majority' at all.

Some very hot (see: attractive / "exotic") people in Vancouver (BC), I am willing to bet a ton of mixed "race" people ended up turning metahuman, elf particularly but I wouldn't rule out being such a eclectic mix was why what became the SSC has a lot of sympathy not only for telling Ottawa and Washington (DC) to frag off in the Resource Rush and camps but also when meta-humanity started popping up all over the place it probably got more than its fair share of metahuman kids. We still remember the Japanese camps from WWII around here and a lot of people of Japanese descent were close friends with First Nations people and the Residential schools were not as distant a memory as we would like...

Something I think is really interesting in Shadowrun is that for international shipping, they could steer completely clear of SSC if they wanted, take the northern passage depending on how you port of call registration flag flies with TPA or go through California and only have to deal with the PCC with more and better highways at a shorter distance with higher populated markets. Going through a SCC or Seatle UCAS port would mean the drone trucks have to pass through more mountains and more NAN member states, some of whom are on way more high alert and less business "friendly" than the PCC and the TPA who might be getting rich off of things being a little less frozen after the initial screw job that would give enviroment and economy there. I wouldn't be surprised if there were border skirmishes and trade disputes brewing between NAN member states as well, especially for the SSC in this particular situation, the economic policies of the Tir, AMC, and especially the Sioux could be kicking their asses.

I wonder, did UCAS anticipate California trying to go Indy or not? If they did holding on to Seattle would make more sense to me but otherwise, why bother?

Man, I really enjoyed reading "Tails You Lose", Lisa Smedman did good with that. She's a nice person to email and thank for her writing.

Best i can tell, California has always been a bit odd compared to its neighbors. And when said neighbors because nations in its own right, with border patrols and whatsnot, going solo may be more tempting than when one have free passage to various other places when one want to get away.

Anyways, this is a setting that was clearly written up more as a rule of cool setting than need social/political coherence. So in that sense, i suspect Seattle got what it got mostly to provide some kind of cold war Berlin place to operate out of. Only later did the various surroundings take any kind of coherent form beyond the opening description of SR1.

Only as the audience aged as the need for coherent events taken shape.

Problem is that they then introduced Denver as the Berlin of North America -- until they ruined it in Year of the Comet. Seattle really serves no purpose to anyone. In fact, metaplot-wise there is really only 1 big event that happens there: the Shutdown.

You can solve this problem by allowing "corridors" in and out. So a shipment could land in Seattle, clear customs, and then load onto a tube train that doesn't stop until it gets to Illinois. Doesn't have to clear SSC and Sioux customs. This is a similar concept to cold war Berlin -- the allies had specific air corridors to reach the city and if they strayed they would be intercepted. Presumably this is how SR Denver works otherwise it would be a bitch for some of the nations to get there.

California seceded eighteen years after the Denver Treaty, after the 2029 Crash, the first Eurowar and the Confederate secession. If anybody in the Jarman administration foresaw that happening, that would pure luck, not some political hindsight.

The explanation can be as simple as Boeing company being a major contractor of the US armed forces and federal agencies during the Ghost Dance War as well as a big funding sources for leading political figures. Boeing could have had reasons to fear an Amerindian control of Seattle would cause the company fall.

Vienna could have been a better Cold War comparison, albeit less famous. This is not about city that is divided, but a city were opposing forces were on equal grounds: western and communist spies in Berlin and Vienna, Japanese and North American corporations in Seattle.

Well i was thinking more that Berlin during the cold war was a island of the west inside the east.

If that is the simple explanation, I wonder why it wasn't applied to a great deal many of other places in the NAN member state's regions. But that is the joy of fiction that plays around with the IRL world (up to a point) as its sand box, I don't have a objection with it being, just wonder what the story possibilities - so if that reason is good enough to fight for Seattle in the treaty but not other places, that would be interesting and who knows, maybe even a hook for a run

Is it bad that the only thing I can add to this whole topic really is that First Blood was actually filmed in BC. For the most part in Hope (small city near/almost part of Vancouver), and also in North Vancouver, Pitt Meadows and a few other locations. So that movie would do great for a visual setting.

That's probably the best link but only for white people. It's never been clear how the NAN would feel about Asian tourists. potentially black people -fellow sufferers of oppression or hispnaics- really a NAN base with other groups worked in. The Seattle licence plates would be a give away.

For the terrain there wouldn't be any real change than today, think of small towns, back roads and lots of trees.

Bare in mind that by 2073 the GGW is 40 plus years in the past. A great many younger NAN's were born after the war, after liberation. They might not have the same prejudices, the way many modern Vietnamese don't hate Americans. They were born after the war was won.

In my experience, and going by the SSC attitude towards meta-humanity, they would be quite friendly with people of asian descent and so forth. I've know Japanese students who came and lived with a family here when it was still a rez and many years later with the recent earthquake and tsunami they were very concerned for their "brother" in Japan. Plus, a great deal of what used to be large population centers, especially Vancouver, BC, they and others are a considerable demographic.

When it comes the SSC, I think the biggest problems you are going to have with regards to where you come from will happen at the border. Beyond that its probably the usual "stupid tourists not reading signs" thing that seems to happen everywhere but in 2072 I bet its a case of expecting a wireless tech AR sign and passing the actual sign that may still be on wired tech or magically inclined right by - Rangers on a search for some idiot lost in the woods again but after 48 hours they probably just looking for the remains of some para-animal or regular animal's meal.

-- I don't see how that is relevant when it's clear from the canon that "anglo" was a general term that basically meant "non Native." Of course, I think some people are overplaying the NAN discrimination like it's supposed to be a reversal of 1950s America with Anglo/Native fountains and anti-miscenigation laws. Even the biased old sources (NAN Nations volumes 1/2) don't go that far, even at the eye-rolling "role reversal" parts like anglo reservations.

-- Assuming the SSC is still anything like I was thinking of when I wrote it in SONA, the biggest issues in the nation are intragroup between the politically dominant coastal and marginalized inland groups. Agriculture would be the biggest industry in most of the SSC, but that's hardly fitting for "back to the roots" purists who were never sedentary (or even more interesting, were not very nomadic until the introduction of the horse). Agriculture and resource extraction are also not sexy in Shadowrun (where the economy runs on magic pixy dust and dreams) so everyone is going to focus on Vancouver, Gaiatronics, issues with Tsimshian, and other sexy stuff the authors either are more familiar with or can look up on Wikipedia (because let's face it, you're not going to get a good feel for Spokane from a quick Google search).

-- My personal feel is that the SSC is conservative, with a serious lack of internal cohesion (as I've mentioned before, most tribes in the SSC are not Salish for one rather obvious issue) and highly regionalized cultures that are jealous of their independence -- treating the SSC as more of a loose federation makes the most sense IMO with the canon presentation (e.g. the Cascade smugglers).

-- The Smedman stuff doesn't add much of interest I think. The material I saw on the Tsmishian-Salish war (did that get published?) was horrifyingly bad and I did my best to downplay that in the text. It made Mass Effect: Deception look like War and Peace..