Alive and active, the Netherworlds span across metaphorical space. Populating these far flung reaches, the denizens of Metaplanes seem like dreams or manifested aspects of this Realm to us. Yet each world has a unique hierarchy, a structure we mimic by our Religions or define by them.

Traveling of their own accord, wether among the Realms or to our own Living Reality, the powerful of these planes can shape events about the dreamscape. But to what ends does this extend? What creatures exist undetected, undreamed in the Dark spaces?

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Once a powerful Totem, the Spirit of the Spider Realm, fell under attack from a demon or demons. Traveling from Nightmare, this heinous creature assaulted the Spider Realm to enslave its power like a carnivorous parasite. Eventually overwhelmed and suppressed, Spider slept.

Driven by the Darkness that spawned it, the vampiric monster that now called itself Spider continued its quest to amass the power of Dreams by corrupting those who heard the call of Spider and by traveling to the Crossroad, the place where all worlds and all thought connect: this World, our Living Reality.

Battled and defeated long ago, this imposter Spider remained trapped on this plane; but so did the True Spirit remain suppressed. Destroyed in this age by Fate, the imposter is no more. Dear and True Spider rose from the slumber and could call once more to the Dreamers. The Spirit does not live without guilt, Her weakness allowed the imposter to deceive and destroy, but She will hunt the Others: those imposters that have taken Bee, Beetle, and the rest.

She feels sadness that Mantis perverted Herself to defeat the Enemy, but She feels sympathy as well. If it comes to Slumber or that... She will do what She must.

Not bad!

Not bad atoll.

i like it. i never quite bought the (few and far between) reasons that insect totems were "bad".

You mean that they're ancient, alien modes of thought from metaplanes crowded by swarms of their kind?

Yeah, they're not so bad once you get used to them. A couple of 'em live downstairs. I never have to throw the trash out, just toss it down a hole. And there're no stray dogs in the neighborhood....

I agree with AH the bugs were spooky 'cause they were just so... foreign (and powerful), not malicious. Do ants think that aardvarks are evil?

well, AH, why are insects alien, but oak is not? i mean, if it's hard to figure out what an invertebrate is thinking, it should be even harder to understand the mind of a plant. and the 'crowded with their own kind' thing doesn't fly, either--any animal population expands until the ecosystem can't support it any more; what's so special about insects?

@Kanada Ten: I like it alot. Much better than the original storyline.

Sphynx

Oak trees don't eat people.

those devil trees from YOTC eat people! PEOPLE!!!!!!!!

Very nice, I've always wanted a different explanation at least of mantis and firefly, as they are solitary insects rather than the hive mind of the others. The corruption of the other totems gives a good reason for the actively anti-metahuman to be that way and explain why not all the totems are so violent.

Have I mentioned yet that you're scary, snowRaven?

Curious and ingenious interpretation, Kanada Ten. Much would depend on precisely that question of whether insect totems in and of themselves are "evil" - also the degree of importance we choose to place on the insect shaman (unlike all others) being able to summon spirits which actually manifest the totem, the corollary being that if the summoned queen dies, the shaman immediately loses all powers.

To our knowledge there does not seem to be a way to bring insect spirits into the physical world without sacrificing (meta)humans. We don't know whether the same would hold true for true manifestations of other totems, were such possible. (Whatever we choose to make of the historico-legendary stories of druidic human sacrifice involving oaks, real evidence remains somewhat lacking as to context and details.) We do know that blood and life (sacrifice) magic exists and that while much of it does fall under what most of us would consider "evil", much of it also does not. (Great Ghost Dance, anyone?) If there were a way to summon insect spirits without necessary sacrifice, would they still be considered "evil"? (I differentiate from "alien" - in a way all the totemic paths could be considered such, and who truly understands the actions of a shaman absolutely dedicated to their path?)

Much stranger is the ability of the queen to be summoned into the familiar physical world and simultaneously to have/retain the ability to grant shamanic powers, whether still bound or free. No other free spirit seems to have parallel powers - to our knowledge.

Unless we accept the interpretation that the Passions were ultra-powerful free spirits? which would suggest a precedent for free spirits with personal access to the physical plane granting shamanic powers?

There has been some speculation, of course, that the totems do not actually grant a shaman her abilities.

Me and every other guy who has suffered at the hands of bugs do declare that snowRaven and those who think like him are agents of the Hive, who want us to believe that Insect Spirits are good!

A quote from Grimoire 2 sums it up: "Is it Evil? Or just alien?"

Now, my beloved Mantis friend, on the other side...

...will kill you and eat you as soon as you give her what you want.

That's great, KT. It sure explains why the Spider totem in the Secrets of Power trilogy was so f&*%ed up.

As for whether or not the Insect totems are evil; I prefer to think that they're not. I'm not really comfortable with concepts like Good and Evil anyway, but even in a world where Horrors (the ultimate Evil) exist(ed), the Invae are just trying to propagate and get by, like everyone else. They're just less pleasant about the whole affair.

I think that depending on how you look at it, some Insect shamans can be sympathetic.

Shadowrun really isn't an absolutist world. Nothing is black and white (I mean shadowrunners are a case in point. By conventional standards, they'd probably be called "evil" be most regular folk).

I like the concept of Insect Spirits as alien entities whose agenda just doesn't sit well with ours. They aren't evil or even "wrong", they're just so alien and different to make living together hard or even impossible.

Hmm that reminded me of a couple of things Rimmer says in Red Dwarf...

well, see, it doesn't particularly matter if they're "evil" or just "alien"; they're still trying to wipe out the metahuman race. i mean, hell, horrors aren't evil either--they just have a very specific diet.

yes, but like you said, SR isn't about black and white. bugs are close enough to black that whether they're "evil" or just "alien" doesn't matter on any human scale--for all intents and purposes, they're black. survivors of bug city don't wake up screaming at night because they don't understand the bugs' motives; they wake up screaming at night because they watched the bugs do horrible things.

I'll just note, as I head off to home and then bed, that I intended to imply that if this Realm is the Reality, then the Corruption stems from metahumanity: It is our Darkness personified, much like Toxic spirits of Man.

I believe that the Horrors once were people, spirits, living beings corrupted by their own greed and desires that drove them beyond what any "sane" person could understand. The aspects of a Totem that are Toxic have just begun this slide, but not fallen. In a sense the battle is endless -or timeless if you will. Simply another metaphor and aspect, as Totems and Gods are. Some, like Spider, are redeemed. Some, like Mantis, have merged and all but forgotten why they fight. Others will yet fall into the Abyss. Even a Horror can be saved, save one perhaps.

We are the cause, the Evil, the Horror, the Creator of Nightmare. And just as we fight among ourselves and are unique among ourselves; the Spawn is, too. Evil fights itself just as Good does.

Lucky for us.

But if we are just the reflection... then Evil and Good battle in Metareality, and Life is the result.

I like Kanada. He might not be canon, but it's fun to get a bew perspective on old material.

I like the post K10.

That said, I'm gonna come down the side of "Bugs 'r bad, unn'kay?" We can debate the whole "they're just trying to survive like we are" thing till we're blue in the face. In RL, its just a debate. In SR, not so. These things exist by using humans as hosts. Ever see any of the "Aliens" flicks? Those things may not have been "evil" but they seemed pretty bad to me.

Some ver neat ideas there Kanada Ten.

I do not see things as 'good' or 'evil' either - the Invae for instance (which I think aren't really insects at all - they just resemble some of our insects (maybe they are distant relations from say the second world, when Invea mated with humans/animals? Okay, far fetched idea, but...)

Invae are to metahumanity what metahumanity is to cows (and a bunch of other creatures) - They eat us, and they wear us and they want to control where we go and what we do. After all, what does a farmer/butcher do if one of 'their' cows go crazy and try to kill the farmer/butcher? They put the cow to sleep. What do the Invae do? Put us to sleep.

They haven't yet come to dominate the planet, which is why we do not see huge warded and fenced areas with herds of humansd being harvested by Invae - they are hunter/gatherers at this point. Just like metahumanity once was.

(And that gives me an idea...what about a Toxic Cow shaman who has had enough of the slaughter of these innocent creatures? He summons spirits into the bodies of cows to even out the playing field. Maybe Ally spirits (sacrificing his potency, instead of 'real' Magic points), or maybe just an ally spirit 'leader' and lesser spirits with inhabiting power for the rest (like the specialized watchers Voodoo use for zombies, or maybe (gasp!) shedim?). Give the shaman and the ally spirits spells like Armor, Control Cows, Influence, Flame Aura, Double Image (if say, ten cows cast this at the same time...), Foreboding, Power Bolt (with the flavor description of the targets being butchered into neat diagrams), and (of course) Slaughter Humans!

Depending on how that's done, you have your silly, comic-relief campaign - or something truly terrifying...

You've played too much Diablo II

actually, that didn't even cross my mind - but now that you mention it, maybe it has been lying dormant in my mind since last I played...

We really have no evidence that any spirit sees metahumans, or metahumanity as anything other than food, a tool, or an ally.

I always saw elementals returning to their respective plane after a hard "conjure" on Earth and complaining or bragging. The more powerful the mage that conjured one, and the more powerful the form they were granted would become a sort of symbol helping to define their hierarchies or castes. While services one preformed were brag rights, badges, or a spiritual karma that simply doesn't function in Reality. Some hate the millennial grind on the metaplanes and try to stay where they can play with the "Animals."

Nature spirits on the other hand view humans as allies or enemies, much like humans view dogs. They will aid those they deem worthy, when called. Most of their time is spent aiding the Mother -Mother Earth that is- within their respective domains. Basically they work to keep the ecosystem functioning as they see fit.

Spirits of the Elements and Ancestor Spirits are tied to Earth and to another Plane; they seem to have memories and dreams of this world much like we have visions of an afterlife and reincarnation...

Totems, Idols and Loa are much like a mix of Elementals, Ancestor spirits, and Nature spirits. They directly affect this world with their will using human pawns.

OOOHHH, insects totems are GOOD... tasting. they make such nice snacks.... crispy locust, deep fired cockroach, yummy...