Just like I asked in the topic, can anyone identify the who's and how for me? I have some ideas, but I am not a fire fighter by any means.

How are fires fought? With application of water, dry foam, perhaps halon, and, oh yeah since this is 206x, also magic.

As for the who, like the police, many metropolitan fire departments have been privatized. The names of the big name companies in the firefighting industry escape me at the moment, though for some reason I recall that the one that'd be the firefighter's equivalent to Lone Star had Franklin in it's name (mostly due to the fact that Ben Franklin is known for founding one of the first fire departments in the US, along with everything else he's known for).

Have water elemental will travel.

Franklin Associates, Inc. holds the contract for Seattle's fire services. IIRC as well as the standard service they offer paid for through taxes, individual people and property owners can make premium payments to get a better than normal service. It's basically a shakedown but they haven't been caught out so far.

From memory I'm pretty sure it's actually from the original Seattle book.

Edit: Tell a lie, it's in New Seattle. Page 75 to be exact and I get a few details mixed up. Basically Franklin started life as an insurance company but bought up some vehicles and people and started their own fire and rescue service after seeing a gap in the market to profit from. This way they could insure your house, property or you and also come help if anything happened to it. They got the contract to run Seattle's fire service later on and now it's pretty much common knowledge, with fairly blatant advertising giving the impression, that they respond to sites they've insured than others - they've apparently been sued in the past but not lost yet.

Oh, and I almost forgot: Dikoted Fireman's Axes.
Because Dikote makes everything better.

With the onset of robotics I could see semi-autonomous knowbots doing a hell of a good job efficiently. Using a Rigger you could coordinate things more efficiently. Something to the effect of a series of fire retardant drones, possibly anthropomorphic with attachments for water. Each drone could have either a specialized or multiple role. Robots could go into blazes with proper hardening see and hear more efficiently than a human. No to mention the fact that they could take on risks that no human could conceivably take. Then when they get trashed the company just bills you for there cost.

"What no insurance well, let’s talk about our monthly installment plan."

I could see drones and different kinds of power armor becoming very effective in firefighting. Powerarmor would be nice for lifting and clearing fallen debris. Plus with an internal cooling system they could staying in the fire for a very long time as long as the batteries were properly shielded. I figure a cooling system similar to a space suit would work.

Magic would be more effective and less costly but how many mages want to be on a fire department. Although a fire department might simply use a VTOL of some sort to air lift mages in as they are needed.

How about an air elemental? Send it in and tell it to move all the air out of a room starving the fire of oxygen. On the shamanic front, hearth spirits would be incredibly useful. Think of how handy the guard and search powers are - protects you against all accidents and you can find any people inside the building in no time at all.

I was thinking about that. How much air can a air elemental manipulate? Pulling all the air out of a fire would be ideal I just don't know if they're powers work in that manner. IE pull all the O2 and replace with N2? I dunno?

Possibly a fire elemental could burn up all the available air in a fire or control the fire so that it doesn't spread? Elementals and spirits would be ideal. I wonder though if the pain and sadness would attract some nasty spirits as well?

HAHAHAHA!

You really think the lowest-bidder for municipal firefighting services is going to blow a wad on robots, and mages, and cyber!?!

Maybe if you buy the really sweet (and expensive) super double diamond hyper premium package, maybe, but I don't see Franklin putting any effort into any advances in firefighting beyond what's commonly accepted now, if that. Franklin cuts back on the number of firefighters? No problem. Who's going to complain about their own internal analyses? And it wouldn't be Bellevue that has to wait an extra 20 minutes for a company to arrive, so why would anyone in a position to care... care?

I've become very skeptical of privatization over the years, and I've seen too many instances where the government was in a better position to act and act with more technology and manpower than a privatized force, and I think that if recent experiences are any indication (increases in publix safety taxes still couldn't pay for thermal vision systems here, so a fundraiser was set up to buy the FD some units) that thermal vision systems will be a luxury, at best, let alone cyber or heavy magic.

That's commie talk, CrimsonDude. I suggest you either wave the stars and stripes, or get the hell out and start up a 3.0 in Moscow.

More seriously, wouldn't the same reasons that Lone Star maintains magic and current tech apply to the fire companies, too? I mean, maybe not, but it's just a thought.

As for what mages would want to do it, think about this. How many magicians have you seen in your games that have been WAY nerdy? What better way for a nerd to turn around his luck with the ladies than by saying he's a fire fighter? Plus, for a lot of mages, it would be a good way to escape the drudgery of corporate life without the danger inherent in shadowrunning.

Lone Star has to deal with magical crimes and phenomena on a regular basis with means that can only be dealt with by using magical forces. Firefighters put out fires. If it is magical arson, Lone Star would be called out to deal with the arsonist mage or fire elemental/other spirit. Otherwise, firefighting's still a process which mundanes can deal with perfectly fine on their own.

As for why some might join (as not to suggest that there won't be any magician firefighters), maybe they do it for the same reason some people I know did it--three days on, four days off, retire in twenty, and have enough free time to run your own business on the side.

But since we're discussing incentives, consider that the starting Lone Star salary (minus COLA) is half that of the Phoenix PD, Las Vegas MPD, or Seattle today, and less than half of the LAPD. Basically, it's a little more than 1/2 of most major city PDs (Chicago, Portland, Washington, D.C.) and 2/3 the salary of cities like Houston or Albuquerque. Do you think Franklin's going to pay better than the SFD does/would? Costs, you know. Plus there's no unions to back up the guys on the frontlines.

It's not an easy life. I would bet though you'd still have to pass the minimal phsycial requirements to get in. One thing too is that it's not a real profitable business to be in. Most firemen even in MA don't make alot of money. Somewhere in the 40,000 K range. There is the extra job but from what I understand some times they may work 24 hours straight which will tire you out in a big way. (40K is okay but it's not going to make you rich especially if you have a family.)

I think the type of equipment will depend on the community. It's like anything else. Smaller less affluent communities will probably have degraded equipment. Also there may be a speicalized "robotics" unit that gets called in on say 3 alarm fires or higher. Something like a mobile force that supports the main unit. Also it depends on the loss of life in the firedepartment. Ussually in a community where lots of guys go down there's more of a political backlash to get better equipment. Rarely though is it pro-active. With well engineered machines there could also be a search and rescue component as well. Areas that would see such equipment might be near major rail heads, major refineries, and or shipping ports. Anywhere highly flammable material is moved in and out. With insurance payouts and upkeep, plus improved algorithms, and simsense it might be cheaper to have a robotic force verses a flesh in some cases. When folks die there's a payout of benefits to the family plus insurance. When a robot crashes and burns you buy a new one or repair it. Plus robots don't get sick, don't get paid overtime, can be replaced and rebuilt, and can't strike at a Mayors ball. With R&D going into military autonomy I could see by the time of 2060 that robotic fire fighters could be a very viable resource. Say one robot per fire house or a special robotics team.

It's just a matter of economics. I think there's a perfectly logical financial incentive for such a drone. Again it just depends on the size of the city/community. Larger more affluent areas are going to have better equipment than poorer areas. If a particular model was to be mass produced then the cost per unit could go down significantly.

Not only that, but some magicians (especially snake shamans) would join on a volunteer basis just to help people. Granted...not many. This has been seen in books and sourcebook alike - not everyone is mercenary at heart.

Also...air elementals sucking out air would be useful only when everyone in the room is dead - or they will soon be dead with no air. Water elemental is definately more useful in *most* situations.

Also with Hypersonic sub orbitals and the Semi-Balistics craft that go in and out of the atmosphere then there must be some sort of ceramic shielding for re-entry that doesn't have to be replaced or is low cost. Such ceramics could provide a cheap way of insulating fire fighters suits in the future. I think Space R&D might provide some nice heat resistant materials for earth side use.

If you wanted more Cyberpunk type of world in the Chrome Book 2 they had a fire fighting full conversion borg that was interesting. That's a bit extreme for SR but for the richest neihborhoods I could see something like that. Although they would almost have to be delta ware in order to get the components in and keep essence manageable. Not real cost effective.

Also......

If I remember correctly the ratio of awakened to non awakened is like 100:1 or 1000:1 ( I think it's 100:1 but can't remember). That would mean that any city of a million there would only be 1,000 awakenend folks. Of that 1,000 I can see between two to three joining the firefighters in a suitably large enough city. They wouldn't even need to be at the fire if they're a mage. Just LOS from like a helicopter directing things astrally. Shamans though may need to be on site.

I totally disagree. Robots are ideal. Remember though I said "Drone". Granted a drone by itself isn't going to be able to enter a home easily but hooked up to a rigger it wouldn't need to be smart. As for internal rescue smaller mobile tracked units could provide efficient search and rescue from both in a structure and outside of a structure. A helium/balloon based drone could be part of standard 2060 equipment. It goes up when the truck stops providing a bird’s eye view if needed. Right now with post 9/11 search and find robots are a big research area. Right now they're designing crawlers in all sorts of shapes and sizes. In a highly toxic, hot environment a fire retardant drone is going to be able to take higher temperatures and take more punishment than a human. Some communities would purchase one others would not. It depends on the community. We're talking 60 years from now! 6...0.... If you look back 60 years ago your hitting the end of WWII. With that gap in electronics today you could expect a similar gap in the 2060's. Plus with a drone hooked into rigger you've got a perfect disposable fireman. I think your underestimating technology too much. If they can implant cybernetics and other types of gear using nanites then they can make a drone that's smart enough to find folks and either lift debris or carry individuals out of a fire. They may even be able to create a mini' life station providing protection and clean O2 while the fire is being fought. That's how I look at it. If you can make machines that can move around the body repairing damage and inserting electrical components ect. then you can make a robot smart enough to walk into a burning building. Granted a drone can't carry on a conversation about metaphysics but it doesn’t have too. This is just another way for the corps to put themselves in your community.

"Don't worry citizen help is on the way. Your Aztechnology Fire drone is here to save you. Just another way Aztechnology shows it cares....Would you like to listen to some approved music while fire-fighers are on route to your location?"

I could even see corps taking a hit on the drones just to improve its image. And with Aztechnology nearly causing a holocaust to all humanity* I could see them giving away a few drones here and there to improve they're image. Look at Bill Gates. He's screwed thousands of individuals but he also spends millions fighting AIDS and providing aid for vaccinations. It just depends on how you spin it. And I think your spinning it in the wrong way.

(Dragon Heart series I think by Jak Koke?)

Yeah, I didn't even get into that. If I was Aztechnology, for example, I'd prefer to keep my own FD than let anyone into the Seattle Pyramid.

But I don't see the problem with it being the insurer, because like any insurer they'll still seek to pay out next to nothing on their policies. They might even consider fire response partial aborgation of damages. However, that would go more towards the people who know better to pay extra, not your everyday Joe whose house burns down.

Things like drones and magic are concievably cheaper than human employees. Drones aren't that expensive, especially if they're little more than a turret on a mobile tank of water (or fire supressant chemicals), and it's a one time cost, plus repairs (although you still need to have a rigger) instead of a yearly wage. Mages might be heavily courted to join as volunteer firefighters, lending in the occasional awakened hand.

I don't know. The upkeep costs in R3 seem prohibitively expensive compared to humans.

That's probably for non standardized parts and customization for vehicles. For a cutting edge tweeked engine the cost is going to be high. The same as it would be for say a formula 1 racer or a high end street car.

With off the shelf parts and supplies the cost would be far less. Self diagnostics could concievably alert when particular components are not working up to specs. Additionally I'm assuming this wouldn't be a internal combustion style engine so basically all you'll be maintaining is a electric motor and the on board electronics and pumping gear if it's a sprayer. Otherwise it would be no more expensive than maintaining any drone or machine. This is going to be an industrial engineering machine. As I understand it there really are not any rules on up keep on industrial machinery. I think it falls more into that category. So it would be no more expensive than operating a auto laethe or a robotic arm now on a assembly line. You'll need techs but not one tech per machine.

Well, as far as drones and robots go. I believe in SSG there is a firefighting drone. In R3R there is the MK-GUYVER S&R (Search & Rescue) robot. It has 2 mechanical arms, is a robot and can think for itself, an adaptation pool, and a few other things that would come in handy. Theres the water cannons made for vehicles, but no reason you couldn't mount those on drones. Mount fire extinguishers on drones. Drones are absolutely ideal for it. Get micro drones, have them scope out the place to find people, then make your way to those people. Alternately, spirits are also quite good. Search the building for trapped people. Air spirits to keep them alive by keeping the smoke out, fire to put out the fire. Hearth spirits to guard them instead. etc etc.