http://www.randb.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2...2/443c71ed40b94

Apparently ninjas lose to cops. For me the mental image of a ninja being held up and detained by cops is something directly out of SR.

He was running around a campus acting like a ninja and found police interest in it to be "surreal?"

I didn't see any pirates stopped. Therefore: Pirates>Ninjas

The muslim woman may not have been "acting in a somewhat suspicious manner, peeping around the corner."

Hell, I look around the corner before proceeding, especially if its dark. Simply asking him a few questions on the scene should have been sufficient. And since when is it a against the law to wear a mask?

Do you walk around the neighborhood dressed like and acting like a ninja? When I read "acting suspicious and peeking around corners" I assumed it meant "slipped into the super-assassin from an eighties movie mode." That might not be the case, but I know that if there were some guy ninjaing his way around my neighborhood I'd be pissed off to hear that the cops took it lightly.

Acting like a ninja will only make you MORE noticible, mainly because you arn't acting normal.

I wear a mask for 2-3 months in the spring for the last 4 years. I have never had the police or security ask ANY questions at all. (Which I find very strange because I am the ONLY person in the city wearing a mask.)

And as far as I am concerned, if they want to see my face, they can ask. I dont have to show my face to anyone, for much the same reason that I don't have to wear a name tag when I go out in public.

After looking at the picture, I'm thinking that his basic problem was that he mixed up his "ninja" costume and his "convenience store robber" costume.

You see, that is where we differ. I prefer my police officers to be so afraid of potential lawsuits that they are willing to stand by and watch a murder in progress rather than take any action to stop it. Freedom is best served when the police fear the public rather than the other way around.

Well no, he obviously wasn't a woman. But he could have had xeroderma pigmentosum, in which case removing those masks in broad daylight would have certainly been fatal to him.

True, but then it would have been a totally different news story, so I think we can safely ignore that possibility.

The point is that the ATF officers didn't know that he wasn't suffering from xeroderma pigmentosum and could have killed an innocent person with their ignorant overzealousness.

There are several major and minor problems with their behavior that, now that I have calmed down some, I can safely point out whitout acting like a moron by suggesting that the motherfucking tax collectors should be shot in the face (although that isn't such a bad idea).

The biggest problem is a simple one. They overreacted. Police officers who are trained in community policing would not have overreacted like that. They would have politely got his attention and had a polite conversation with him. If his story didn't make sense they would have then proceded to detain him without ever drawing their weapons. However, since his story did make perfect sense a real police officer would have just let him go on his merry way without ever pinning him to the ground.

The second problem was jurisdiction. The BATF is a tax collection agency, nothing more and nothing less. It exists for the sole purpose of collecting taxes on alcohol, tobacco, and firearms and seizing illegal untaxed versions of the same. Hence, its name.
The ninja in question did not have any untaxed alcohol or tobacco products that I am aware of and he certainly didn't have any untaxed weapons. The agents had no reason to suspect that he had untaxed goods. Therefore, they had no jurisdiction and no authority to detain him. They should have simply informed campus police of their suspicions and differed to their authority without taking any illegal actions. A full fledged campus police force (as opposed to a security force) has complete legal jurisdiction within the confines of the campus. Since this is a University they undoubtedly had a legally recognized police force. In this case, simply checking with the campus police would have been enough to alieviate their suspicions since the campus police were almost certainly aware of the event.

You see, it isn't just a ninja got busted by some cops. It is that two federal agents who had no juridiction in this matter both overreacted and acted illegaly. Some might say "No harm, no foul". I say "When they came for the Jews I said nothing because I wan't a Jew."
When a federal agencies never cross a line. They always push it ahead of them. Every time a government agency oversteps its bounds and seized a new power contrary to the law and no one questions the power that they illegally seized becomes legally theirs by default.

1) Had he identified himself as a victim of XP they may not have removed his mask in broad daylight. The odds are pretty good that they said "remove your mask" and the guy did it instantly (I know if you're pointing a gun at me and asked me too I would).

2) They could have just shadowed him, talked to him, or let him go. that's true. But I'm glad they did what they did. I don't want a world where law enforcement is afraid to enforce the law. For all they know he had just stabbed someone and was sneaking away. To let him go (or even just play around with him with kiddie gloves) could have resulted in someone's death.

3) With that little of a story it's really hard to say that they overreacted. We have no idea what the situation was like. They could have said several things to him before shouting 'freeze' that he just didn't hear. They could have all been hopped up on smack looking for a punk to take down.

I'd be interested to know what the ATF was doing in the area, as it could have a huge impact on their thought processes durign the scene.

Basically, you see nazis going after jews while I see law enforcement going after criminals. Since neither was actually the case, I think we can agree we both have a personal slant on what we just read.

Just did a quick rescan o fthe article and saw they were there for "safe neighborhood training." With that being the case, they were probably in a "keep the neighborhoods safe" frame of mind, which would definitely leave them wanting to interact with banditos in the shadows.

Since when has wearing a mask been a crime, yes he may have commited a crime, but unless you have one reported you don't arrest someone because they look like they have commited a crime.

As far as it looks the guy was walking round, dressed foolishly and the cops arrested him. If a crime by someone dressed like that or by an unseen perp had occured fair enough. Otherwise cops should talk to people be for pulling guns.

For the most part I agree with hyzmarca. At minimum, the officers had absolutely *NO* right to draw weapons on an unarmed suspect. I really don't think they had any jurisdiction in the area. Granted, there may be details to the case I haven't heard about yet, but if they 'detained' him as roughly as it says without his provoking it, he has the right to sue for quite a bit of money. In his place, I might consider suing them for legal fees and a dollar, just to drive the point home. We don't live in a police state where men with badges can just threaten and 'detain' ninjas whenever they please.

Am I the only one that looked at the pic and saw the cop with his knee on a handcuffed student. The kid wasn't going anywhere, what's with the cop holding him down with his KNEE on the guy's NECK?

Holy cow ... everyone freaks out when someone who disserved to be restrained, is restrained. He was wearing a mask, then ran from cops. Try walking down the street, then see a cop car then run... see what will happen. When I was a kid the cops beat on you, and you took it, some even liked it. Young punks are just so spoiled today, it is probably this rock and roll music they listen too. Just because someone is unarmed doesn't mean they are not dangerous. Everytime they pull the gun out of the holster they have to do paperwork, so it must have been worth it. look at the guy's hair ... he looks like a drug addict, strung out on ice or crack.

You can't always tell what a person is just by looking at his hair, today's hair fashion is all crazy and all over the spectrum. *shakes his stick at the young punks*

Front page news in the local paper a week or two ago was a major (for small-town Vermont) drug bust in town. They ran pictures of the suspects in the paper. Every one of them had the same close-cropped haircut that all of the local cops wear.

Yes, I 'freak out' when someone is illegally detained and threatened. Maybe it's because I happen to like long, shaggy hair too. Maybe it's because one of my hobbies is picking locks (legally). Maybe it's because I realize cops are human and, as such, prone to be just as stupid, selfish and power-hungry as every other human. Or maybe it's just me.

If I had to choose though, I'd put my tent up in hyzmarca's camp. I'd prefer the cops have too many restrictions than too many freedoms. The government has enough tools at its disposal that such actions are really unecessary.

When you've been bleeding on the ground in a circle of gangers getting stomped because the authorities nearby could only watch for fear of interferance costing them their jobs, you tend to change your views on how much power the "good guys" should be allowed to have.

Having a cop pull a gun on you because you asked him for directions also tends to make you reconsider such things.

F that. I'd make damn sure that the gangers were bleeding on the ground in a circle of me because the authorities were too scared to interfere.

You see, the police have no legal obligation to protect you anyway. They could just watch and there is nothing you could possibly do to punish them for their noninterferance. This has been proven in several court cases.

Relying on the police for protection has always been the stupidiest thing anyone could possibly do simply because the police are neither omnipotent nor omnicient. Unlike Superman they can't come to the aid of everyone who cries for help.
The only person responisble for your safety is you and when you forget that bad things happen.

LOL Go superninja hyzmarca go! Take down those 10 gangers when you're a lone 12-year-old!

Ah, the old "police don't need to be around because I'm a superbadass" maneuver. I can't argue with that one.

Who said we should rely on the police for protection? What I said is that they should be able to help people that are in trouble.

John: an accountant can pull a gun on you for asking him directions. If a cop does it, he's already in the wrong and going way against regulations, so the odds are that having tighter rules wouldn't change a thing in that situation.

Superninja? No. Just someone with the common sense to be armed when traveling thorugh gang territory.

Or not travel through gang territory in the first place. Or whatever basic precautions are taken to avoid getting randomly beaten by a dozen people in a gang. It's really far more common for cops to overstep their legal authority than for gangs to randomly and unprovoked seek out people outside of gang infested neighborhoods. Don't think that means I think cops should be completed gotten rid of, and I do think cops need the tools to protect innocents (and definitely to protect themselves), but that doesn't mean that cops can stick a gun in the face of anyone they deem 'suspicious'.

Yeah, I should have carried a gun with me every time I left the house. Or I could have avoided the situation entirely by dropping out of school and never leaving my living room. Keep in mind I was 12 with no idea where to get a gun if I'd wanted to.

Where's that rolleyes emote when you need it?

I agree that cops can't stick guns in the face of everyone they think is suspicious. I don't think anyone here has said they should be able to.

Life is good again! Finally I can give my full spread of emotion!

Have you considered traveling with a group? Or taking the bus? Or a bike? Or not having anything worth taking? Or taking karate? Or bringing them a six pack of soda now and again? Or telling your parents you were having problems? Or the school? Because really, even if the cops WERE willing to randomly pull guns on people just for being suspicious, most likely the gangers would just come back tomorrow when the cops are elsewhere THEN beat you up.

As Hyzmarca said, the only person responsible for your safety is you. If you're a minor, then it's your parents. The police CANNOT keep you safe from every bully, mugger or murderer. It's simply impossible. They can, however, make themselves into an oppressive force of their own right quite easily.

I'd personally have preferred an oppressive armed force of police officers with jobs on the line than an oppressive armed force of gangs with nothing to worry about except getting suspended fromt he school they hate for a day or two.

LOL damnit! Why didn't I ever think of buying a gun and joining a utopia?

Maybe I'm unsympathetic because I was always the bully... When I felt threatened and outnumbered, I made my own group of threatening people. I'm guessing you didn't consider joining the gang yourself?

Nope, not once. I'm not a big fan of turning myself into a monster out of cowardice.

Ok, maybe I missed something, or are folks being deliberately obtuse?

He was not dressed like a "ninja". His jogging pants had a white stripe, and he had red bandannas on his face. He was dressed like a gang member.
They noticed him running on campus and gave chase. They identified themselves.
I have had several encounters with law enforcement. As a general rule, they do not kneel on your neck unless you give them a reason, despite what TV shows you.
Police are there to serve and protect. I do not want officers standing there, doing nothing, while children are abducted or women are raped, or even while burglars scope out my house. Policeman investigating suspicious activity is EXACTLY what I want.
That being said, I do believe that the ATF should have continued to watch him, and left it to local authorities to detain or question him.

Nobody called him a ninja since page 1.

Oh, sorry. I read through this really fast.

The suspect formerly known as a ninja?

Yep. He's now known as "the white gang member in utopia."

It definitely is where I grew up (Texas, USA). Not to mention the difficulties of a (mostly) law abiding 12 year old scrounging up enough money to buy an illegal weapon.

I just opted not to bother going there, as he already demonstrated some fairly silly (IMO) ideas and I was afraid of a tirade on how the perfect society would give everyone a gun because gun control causes abortions.