I remember reading about a year or two ago that a gaming company was working on a follow-up setting for the Earthdawn/Shadowrun universe that was supposed to be taking place either in the 8th World or at the very end of the 6th. Does anyone know what became of it? I don't think it's Eclipse Phase as that has pretty much nothing to do with the universe despite some similarities. Fading Suns maybe?
And if anyone does know what I'm talking about and has had a chance to look it over, what did you think?
Full Version: The Eighth World
Ah-ha. Thank you kindly. 
It was being worked on by Redbrick Games.
Equinox
The same company publishes Fading Suns as well, but Equinox is the 8th world game you're thinking of.
On that note, looks like AGe of Legends is on indefinite hiatus
That was the Earthdawn setting for D&D 4e. I'm a bit bummed about that, I was really interested to see what they were going to do with it :/
Bull
Equinox
The same company publishes Fading Suns as well, but Equinox is the 8th world game you're thinking of.
On that note, looks like AGe of Legends is on indefinite hiatus
That was the Earthdawn setting for D&D 4e. I'm a bit bummed about that, I was really interested to see what they were going to do with it :/Bull
I can't say that I'm a fan of D&D 4e. It's way too MMOy and restrictive for my tastes. It's cool that they tried to incorporate specific party roles into the game; it's not so cool that they tried to force specific party roles into the game. But I do have to admit I love Earthdawn. Both the setting and the rules. They were really original and interesting when they were first released, and it's a shame D&D 4e stole so many of its concepts (healing surges being the biggest of the lot) without giving it even the tiniest of nods.
On a related note, does anyone know how much detail of the past Equinox is due to include? It's kind of a slippery slope. Give away too much or make too big of a leap, and it could directly interfere with the develop of Shadowrun. An extreme example: The Horrors come through en masse in 2078 and begin devouring the world. The opposite is true, too. Say Equinox has FTL technology that was developed in 3215, but next year Shadowrun introduces it in 2073. Was there any communication between the two companies about issues like that?
On a related note, does anyone know how much detail of the past Equinox is due to include? It's kind of a slippery slope. Give away too much or make too big of a leap, and it could directly interfere with the develop of Shadowrun. An extreme example: The Horrors come through en masse in 2078 and begin devouring the world. The opposite is true, too. Say Equinox has FTL technology that was developed in 3215, but next year Shadowrun introduces it in 2073. Was there any communication between the two companies about issues like that?
Divergent Realities. Sort of like the new Star Trek movie doesn't have to stick with established story lines because the past was changed and things went "a different way" with it? Simple Sci Fi solution.
The idea of this makes me happier then it probably should. I've always been a fan of ED/SR continuity and was sorely disappointed when they began to distance the two from each other.
QUOTE
A BRIEF HISTORY OF THE EQUINOX UNIVERSE
In the dark night of a distant future, the shattered remains of Earth drift through the cold void of space. The shadows of the past have been driven away, and the dark clouds at the horizon appear to be man-made. After the Great War, which resulted in the destruction of Earth, mankind is restless, scattered across the void, bereft of its home.
The universe looks vastly different from the one those early pioneers saw when they took to the stars. Thousands of years ago, in the golden age of ancient Earth, mankind managed to tame the mystic cycles that brought magic to their homeworld and colonies. Mankind prospered and excelled at developing their control over the mystical forces, technology, and eventually even a fusion of both.
While it appeared that mankind had outwitted its enemy, their clever manipulations didn't go unnoticed. Billions died when the demons—horrible creatures from beyond hungering after mankind's souls—attacked, raining corrupted death down on the planets, turning every one of them into a living hell, giving way to the overwhelming forces of the demonic armies.
The unexpected attack left Earth and its colonies without a chance. Humanity fled to outer space, and the Sol system was lost entirely, leaving each colony isolated and alone. The mystics were left behind, and mankind watched their greatest achievements fall and their interstellar realm crumble to dust. Their new homes on starships and space stations were the only places safe from the mystical threat.
When the demons and their Shanrazi pawns finally found a way to overcome the void and reached for the stars, the human Consortium mounted a coordinated attack, something thought impossible by the demons and their servants. In this final battle for the cradle of humanity, the incredible energies released also resulted in the destruction of the very reason mankind came back—Earth itself. The Great War was over, humanity had won, but Earth lay shattered to pieces, pieces left strung along its former orbital path.
Now, just over a hundred years later, and twenty years after a civil war of sorts, mankind once again feels in control of its own destiny. Tensions over the legacy of the demons had turned the Sol system into a lawless no-man's-land. Gateway Station, a giant ring structure allowing Earth's remains to pass through it, acts as a shield and portal between the remaining Consortium worlds, a natural and neutral nexus.
The rest of the Sol system became a hive of misfits and lowlifes, drawing in all those people unwanted in other parts of the galaxy. However, it also became the last, safe hideout for the Vagrants, rebels to the oppressive might of the Consortium—a government they deem to be fascistic and corrupted from deep within. True freedom can only be found among the stars, the voices of the galactic underground say.
To them, the Great War isn't over. It has only just begun.
In the dark night of a distant future, the shattered remains of Earth drift through the cold void of space. The shadows of the past have been driven away, and the dark clouds at the horizon appear to be man-made. After the Great War, which resulted in the destruction of Earth, mankind is restless, scattered across the void, bereft of its home.
The universe looks vastly different from the one those early pioneers saw when they took to the stars. Thousands of years ago, in the golden age of ancient Earth, mankind managed to tame the mystic cycles that brought magic to their homeworld and colonies. Mankind prospered and excelled at developing their control over the mystical forces, technology, and eventually even a fusion of both.
While it appeared that mankind had outwitted its enemy, their clever manipulations didn't go unnoticed. Billions died when the demons—horrible creatures from beyond hungering after mankind's souls—attacked, raining corrupted death down on the planets, turning every one of them into a living hell, giving way to the overwhelming forces of the demonic armies.
The unexpected attack left Earth and its colonies without a chance. Humanity fled to outer space, and the Sol system was lost entirely, leaving each colony isolated and alone. The mystics were left behind, and mankind watched their greatest achievements fall and their interstellar realm crumble to dust. Their new homes on starships and space stations were the only places safe from the mystical threat.
When the demons and their Shanrazi pawns finally found a way to overcome the void and reached for the stars, the human Consortium mounted a coordinated attack, something thought impossible by the demons and their servants. In this final battle for the cradle of humanity, the incredible energies released also resulted in the destruction of the very reason mankind came back—Earth itself. The Great War was over, humanity had won, but Earth lay shattered to pieces, pieces left strung along its former orbital path.
Now, just over a hundred years later, and twenty years after a civil war of sorts, mankind once again feels in control of its own destiny. Tensions over the legacy of the demons had turned the Sol system into a lawless no-man's-land. Gateway Station, a giant ring structure allowing Earth's remains to pass through it, acts as a shield and portal between the remaining Consortium worlds, a natural and neutral nexus.
The rest of the Sol system became a hive of misfits and lowlifes, drawing in all those people unwanted in other parts of the galaxy. However, it also became the last, safe hideout for the Vagrants, rebels to the oppressive might of the Consortium—a government they deem to be fascistic and corrupted from deep within. True freedom can only be found among the stars, the voices of the galactic underground say.
To them, the Great War isn't over. It has only just begun.
The most interesting parts. This implies that the Seventh world was not actually a down-cycle, and the Horrors returned.
I kinda like the implications of "hybrid ships." I loved the original Spelljammer setting for D&D and, even though their execution was kinda silly, seeing ships "sailing" the astral sea is a great mental image. Especially if they have requirements such as needing living materials on the exterior, encouraging the use of wood and the like. But that's probably just me.
I saw that too. On the Red Brick Forums they posted an update as of Feb. 2010 stating that they were closer to bringing it to a "cohesive" state. Here's hoping.
I thought the 8th World book was Best Ever: BattleRUN!
There's never been any real hard and fast Canon about this, as far as I know, but when we were brainstorming for Year of the Comet, we looked pretty hard at the mana-cycles and Earthdawn, since one thing we were toying with was the idea that the Comet would raise the mana level a bit (Eventually, we decided it was a mostly temporary fluctuation, but still).
One of the theories that was bandied about was that the 3rd age wasn't manaless either. The 3rd age was the age of the Horrors. I'm not real strong on my ED lore, so feel free to correct me, but the Caerns largely represented cities and places that metahumanity fled to, to avoid the Horrors as they scourged the world, and were sealed off from the world for a long time. It's often assumed that ED takes place at the end of the 4th age, but I know that the idea of it being the beginning instead was put forth, at least during the YotC meeting.
For this reason, it makes sense for the 7th age to also not be a down cycle.
Bull
One of the theories that was bandied about was that the 3rd age wasn't manaless either. The 3rd age was the age of the Horrors. I'm not real strong on my ED lore, so feel free to correct me, but the Caerns largely represented cities and places that metahumanity fled to, to avoid the Horrors as they scourged the world, and were sealed off from the world for a long time. It's often assumed that ED takes place at the end of the 4th age, but I know that the idea of it being the beginning instead was put forth, at least during the YotC meeting.
For this reason, it makes sense for the 7th age to also not be a down cycle.
Bull
QUOTE (BishopMcQ @ Apr 5 2010, 08:34 PM) 
I thought the 8th World book was Best Ever: BattleRUN!
Same here...I have that one, too...
QUOTE (BishopMcQ @ Apr 5 2010, 11:34 PM)
I thought the 8th World book was Best Ever: BattleRUN!
What is this "BattleRUN" you speak of?
QUOTE (Bull @ Apr 5 2010, 10:35 PM)
There's never been any real hard and fast Canon about this, as far as I know, but when we were brainstorming for Year of the Comet, we looked pretty hard at the mana-cycles and Earthdawn, since one thing we were toying with was the idea that the Comet would raise the mana level a bit (Eventually, we decided it was a mostly temporary fluctuation, but still).
One of the theories that was bandied about was that the 3rd age wasn't manaless either. The 3rd age was the age of the Horrors. I'm not real strong on my ED lore, so feel free to correct me, but the Caerns largely represented cities and places that metahumanity fled to, to avoid the Horrors as they scourged the world, and were sealed off from the world for a long time. It's often assumed that ED takes place at the end of the 4th age, but I know that the idea of it being the beginning instead was put forth, at least during the YotC meeting.
One of the theories that was bandied about was that the 3rd age wasn't manaless either. The 3rd age was the age of the Horrors. I'm not real strong on my ED lore, so feel free to correct me, but the Caerns largely represented cities and places that metahumanity fled to, to avoid the Horrors as they scourged the world, and were sealed off from the world for a long time. It's often assumed that ED takes place at the end of the 4th age, but I know that the idea of it being the beginning instead was put forth, at least during the YotC meeting.
I don't have Earthdawn's history memorized or anything, but I distinctly remember that they weren't holed up for that long, maybe a couple thousand years, and we know the active time of the Earthdawn setting was at the very end of the Fourth World. The various races were also already well established (hence the elves being able to perform the blood thorn ritual, and the various other types of racially-specific caerns), and time keeping was certainly detailed by the dwarves if no one else.
Personally I always assumed the Third World was the ice age, which is why you don't hear much about it and why humans aren't really a stronger force in the setting. By the time they were able to settle down again, the Fourth World was upon them and all these races with their superior natural abilities quickly dominated them. I also always assumed the First World was the age of dinosaurs, of which the dragons awoke from. But that has no basis other than my own imagination. I don't think it's ever implied even once that it was the case, but it seemed to make sense to me at the time. 'Course, I was still a teen when I first started playing there, so I had a lot of kooky ideas.
The blurb Musp. quoted above also implies that metahumanity learned how to control the mana tide, implying that without their intervention it would have faded away. They probably did something similar to the orichalcum pillars that were extending the levels of magic at the end of Earthdawn.
QUOTE (Dr. Funkenstein @ Apr 5 2010, 09:43 PM)
The blurb Musp. quoted above also implies that metahumanity learned how to control the mana tide, implying that without their intervention it would have faded away.
Precisely the reason I believe the Seventh World was not a down cycle.
Ahh, see? Ignore me, I don;t know ED well.
And to touch on the D&D4 stuff a moment... I like D&D 4e mainly because it's a pretty "Light" RPG. THe card system makes it even moreso. It scratches that tactical miniatures game itch for me, as well as the "Kill shit, take it's suff" itch that I try not to scratch when playing Shadowrun It's not perfect, and it's not for everyone though, and that's cool.
But as you said, they ""borrowed" a few mechanics from Earthdawn (And since ED and Age of Legends was the very first license with the new version of whatever the OGL is, it's entirely possible that they cut a deal there), so I am really interested to see what AoL looks like, since it seems like it would be a pretty good fit. And a completely "New" system would be a good jumping on point for someone interested in checking out the game world and who doesn't want to tackle 15 years and 2-3 companies worth of game history
Bull
And to touch on the D&D4 stuff a moment... I like D&D 4e mainly because it's a pretty "Light" RPG. THe card system makes it even moreso. It scratches that tactical miniatures game itch for me, as well as the "Kill shit, take it's suff" itch that I try not to scratch when playing Shadowrun
It's not perfect, and it's not for everyone though, and that's cool.But as you said, they ""borrowed" a few mechanics from Earthdawn (And since ED and Age of Legends was the very first license with the new version of whatever the OGL is, it's entirely possible that they cut a deal there), so I am really interested to see what AoL looks like, since it seems like it would be a pretty good fit. And a completely "New" system would be a good jumping on point for someone interested in checking out the game world and who doesn't want to tackle 15 years and 2-3 companies worth of game history
Bull
QUOTE (Bull @ Apr 5 2010, 10:53 PM)
But as you said, they ""borrowed" a few mechanics from Earthdawn (And since ED and Age of Legends was the very first license with the new version of whatever the OGL is, it's entirely possible that they cut a deal there), so I am really interested to see what AoL looks like, since it seems like it would be a pretty good fit. And a completely "New" system would be a good jumping on point for someone interested in checking out the game world and who doesn't want to tackle 15 years and 2-3 companies worth of game history
Which would be great if it didn't sound like they were scrapping AoL completely for the time being.
QUOTE (Lady Door @ Apr 5 2010, 09:52 PM)
Get the combo pack!
QUOTE (Bull @ Apr 5 2010, 10:53 PM)
Ahh, see? Ignore me, I don;t know ED well.
I'm hardly an expert. I haven't so much as cracked a single book in about a year now I think, let alone read up on it in any detail. I could very well be mistaking.
QUOTE
And to touch on the D&D4 stuff a moment... I like D&D 4e mainly because it's a pretty "Light" RPG. THe card system makes it even moreso. It scratches that tactical miniatures game itch for me, as well as the "Kill shit, take it's suff" itch that I try not to scratch when playing Shadowrun It's not perfect, and it's not for everyone though, and that's cool.
It's not perfect, and it's not for everyone though, and that's cool.I just kind of outgrew that preference a long time ago. When I do get an urge to just blow the fuck out of things, I'd rather play something like Macho Women with Guns. The few games of 4e I've tried have made me want to stab my eye due to the pedantic obsession with movement and rules lawyering. (I know, ironic since I argue about rules all the time.)
QUOTE
But as you said, they ""borrowed" a few mechanics from Earthdawn (And since ED and Age of Legends was the very first license with the new version of whatever the OGL is, it's entirely possible that they cut a deal there), so I am really interested to see what AoL looks like, since it seems like it would be a pretty good fit. And a completely "New" system would be a good jumping on point for someone interested in checking out the game world and who doesn't want to tackle 15 years and 2-3 companies worth of game history
I suppose there's that. Still, I'd just hate to see Earthdawn -- a wonderful fantasy setting first and foremost -- get reduced to grids on a map and worries about which daily or encounter power to use at any given time. Especially since the 4e rules take little, if any, consideration into non-combat activities. What they did with ritual magic alone is ghastly.
As an aside, I still haven't forgiven you for trying to tell everyone that Ghostwalker wasn't Icewing way back when. Oh no, he's an all new dragon who's never been seen before. My ass!
QUOTE (Dr. Funkenstein @ Apr 5 2010, 11:41 PM)
I'm hardly an expert. I haven't so much as cracked a single book in about a year now I think, let alone read up on it in any detail. I could very well be mistaking.
YOu still have me beat
I read the ED core book back in 98 because I was filling in for a missing GM at the Gen Con ED Tourney. I totally faked my way through GMing that QUOTE
I suppose there's that. Still, I'd just hate to see Earthdawn -- a wonderful fantasy setting first and foremost -- get reduced to grids on a map and worries about which daily or encounter power to use at any given time. Especially since the 4e rules take little, if any, consideration into non-combat activities. What they did with ritual magic alone is ghastly.
Well, Red Brick is still producing Earthdawn 3rd edition, and that was never planned to be replaced by Age of Legends.
QUOTE
As an aside, I still haven't forgiven you for trying to tell everyone that Ghostwalker wasn't Icewing way back when. Oh no, he's an all new dragon who's never been seen before. My ass!
To be fair... I don't believe the name Icewing has been mentioned in any Shadowrun book. I don't even think it's ever been stated that he's Dunkie's brother (THough I could be mistaken). The closest that you get is they talk about the resemblance.
Unfortunately, this has to get chalked up to a combination of things, but mainly loose lips and folks breaking NDA. It's even indirectly my fault (Someone that used to be in one of my playtest groups back when wee were playtesting stuff, who had an NDA, ran his mouth to someone else. Who then got on here and asked stupid questions).
The idea was, originally, that yes, it was Icewing. But the intent had been to give the impression it was Dunklezahn reborn somehow. Time and the FASA closing kind of eroded the idea a bit, and loose lips blabbing here managed to make that instant public knowledge. Denial was an attempt at damage control. Plus the fact that, well, as I said... He's still not Icewing, officially
Until it sees print somewhere, it's rumor and speculation Bull
Wouldn't Equinox be the 7th world? They do say they took control of the mana cycles, so there are no down cycles.
QUOTE (Dr. Funkenstein @ Apr 6 2010, 03:58 AM)
On a related note, does anyone know how much detail of the past Equinox is due to include? It's kind of a slippery slope. Give away too much or make too big of a leap, and it could directly interfere with the develop of Shadowrun. An extreme example: The Horrors come through en masse in 2078 and begin devouring the world. The opposite is true, too. Say Equinox has FTL technology that was developed in 3215, but next year Shadowrun introduces it in 2073. Was there any communication between the two companies about issues like that?
Equinox won't interfere with the Shadowrun timeline very muhc, especially not about details like the ones you've mentioned, as EX takes places thousands of years in the future. No need to over-detail the history chapter here.
QUOTE (Bull @ Apr 6 2010, 07:44 AM)
Well, Red Brick is still producing Earthdawn 3rd edition, and that was never planned to be replaced by Age of Legends.
Exactly. The idea was to bring the Earthdawn setting to D&D4 gamers who won't touch a new system with a 10-foot pole. Once convinced by AoL how great the Earthdawn setting is, they would have to buy all other sourcebooks too.
QUOTE (Grinder @ Apr 7 2010, 04:41 AM)
Equinox won't interfere with the Shadowrun timeline very muhc, especially not about details like the ones you've mentioned, as EX takes places thousands of years in the future. No need to over-detail the history chapter here.
Yes, but what if they include characters like Aina or Lowfyr? Wouldn't that sort of lock-in the Shadowrun developer's ability to put them at significant risk or the like?
That might cause a problem, of course - but one we are aware of and try to avoid or solve.
QUOTE (Dr. Funkenstein @ Apr 7 2010, 12:03 PM)
Yes, but what if they include characters like Aina or Lowfyr? Wouldn't that sort of lock-in the Shadowrun developer's ability to put them at significant risk or the like?
That's one reason why I'd love to see SR at Redbrick should Catalyst lose the licence.
So Equinox is indeed Shadowrn 40K.
Will Equinox include all Shadowrun races, and detail what has become of them? What about named immortal characters? Also, how large will the characters' ships and ressources be? It read more like Star Wars than Rogue Trader, but I admit I am kind of taken by the Rogue Trader character actually being a commander, not a grunt ...
Will Equinox include all Shadowrun races, and detail what has become of them? What about named immortal characters? Also, how large will the characters' ships and ressources be? It read more like Star Wars than Rogue Trader, but I admit I am kind of taken by the Rogue Trader character actually being a commander, not a grunt ...
Okay, accepting the possibility of offending some of our venerable posters here...
If I were to put Equinox up against Eclipse Phase, how might I judge the two of them?
Both appear to be transhumanist.
Both appear to put the players against "existential risks" (i.e. - species-terminating threats) - except Eclipse Phase seems to put the players in the role of the government-supported troubleshooters, while Equinox puts them in the role of criminals like pirates or smugglers.
Mechanics-wise, both seem to focus on very simple, streamlined rules.
Equinox does actively try to tie into Shadowrun, while Eclipse Phase does not.
One is Red-brick (Earthdawn fame), the other is Adam Jury & co. (Shadowrun fame).
Eclipse Phase appears to be actually available and for sale, while Equinox is not.
If I were to put Equinox up against Eclipse Phase, how might I judge the two of them?
Both appear to be transhumanist.
Both appear to put the players against "existential risks" (i.e. - species-terminating threats) - except Eclipse Phase seems to put the players in the role of the government-supported troubleshooters, while Equinox puts them in the role of criminals like pirates or smugglers.
Mechanics-wise, both seem to focus on very simple, streamlined rules.
Equinox does actively try to tie into Shadowrun, while Eclipse Phase does not.
One is Red-brick (Earthdawn fame), the other is Adam Jury & co. (Shadowrun fame).
Eclipse Phase appears to be actually available and for sale, while Equinox is not.
Just thought I'd jump in quickly:
The coming of the Horrors was a fairly long period but there hasn't been any official dates set on that (I think I worked it out once as about 800 years from the first sighting to the current game year). We do know for sure that Throal was sealed for 400 years so the height of the invasion was only that long. The game setting is still in the tail end of the Scourge because Horrors are still around. With Ehran pegging the ages at 5000 years in Shadowrun, 400 is miniscule enough that the Horrors were likely contained wholly within the 4th age. Of course this is all based on in game sources so if line developers wanted to mess with that its all cool.
If you believe the dragons, then the dragons were Horrors created during the 2nd cycle who rebelled against the "king" of the Horrors and fled to our world. Here they created the "lesser" species and protected them. There's not much mention of down-cycles in ED -- the only one I can remember is that there are some Human mages that speculate only Humans will exist when the magic level drops too low (referring to the 5th age). Otherwise all mentions are "in a previous age of magic."
RE: ED3 and D&D4
ED3 moved towards a hex-grid as their basis for combat. However, they also listed the ranges/speeds in yards next to the hex counts so that you could stay in yards instead. ED3 also doesn't have all the shift/pull/slide/push effects that AoL would have.
The coming of the Horrors was a fairly long period but there hasn't been any official dates set on that (I think I worked it out once as about 800 years from the first sighting to the current game year). We do know for sure that Throal was sealed for 400 years so the height of the invasion was only that long. The game setting is still in the tail end of the Scourge because Horrors are still around. With Ehran pegging the ages at 5000 years in Shadowrun, 400 is miniscule enough that the Horrors were likely contained wholly within the 4th age. Of course this is all based on in game sources so if line developers wanted to mess with that its all cool.
If you believe the dragons, then the dragons were Horrors created during the 2nd cycle who rebelled against the "king" of the Horrors and fled to our world. Here they created the "lesser" species and protected them. There's not much mention of down-cycles in ED -- the only one I can remember is that there are some Human mages that speculate only Humans will exist when the magic level drops too low (referring to the 5th age). Otherwise all mentions are "in a previous age of magic."
RE: ED3 and D&D4
ED3 moved towards a hex-grid as their basis for combat. However, they also listed the ranges/speeds in yards next to the hex counts so that you could stay in yards instead. ED3 also doesn't have all the shift/pull/slide/push effects that AoL would have.
QUOTE (Doc Byte @ Apr 7 2010, 06:56 AM)
That's one reason why I'd love to see SR at Redbrick should Catalyst lose the licence.
Very much agree. Most likely wouldn't happen, for a myriad of reasons... but, it would be fantastic if it did.
QUOTE (nezumi @ Apr 7 2010, 09:44 AM)
Okay, accepting the possibility of offending some of our venerable posters here...
I don't think Equinox claims to be Hard-SF, while Eclipse Phase is very good Hard-SF (except those damn quantum-entanglement communicators. Yuck. Open a physics book FFS.)
QUOTE (Kid Chameleon @ Apr 6 2010, 12:19 AM)
Get the combo pack!
I did. Without paying any attention whatsoever. To date, I believe I am one of only two to do so.
QUOTE (Werewindlefr @ Apr 7 2010, 11:02 AM)
I don't think Equinox claims to be Hard-SF, while Eclipse Phase is very good Hard-SF (except those damn quantum-entanglement communicators. Yuck. Open a physics book FFS.)
Eclipse Phase is one of those games that both interests me yet frustrates me due to the science involved. Being a HUGE science geek, I follow a lot of the modern trends in research (bogus or legit) and the science in EP is pretty wacky. Very cool in a Sci-Fi perspective, but I did spend a lot of time building up my suspension of disbelief in order to get over it.
QUOTE (Chrome Tiger @ Apr 7 2010, 12:08 PM)
Eclipse Phase is one of those games that both interests me yet frustrates me due to the science involved. Being a HUGE science geek, I follow a lot of the modern trends in research (bogus or legit) and the science in EP is pretty wacky. Very cool in a Sci-Fi perspective, but I did spend a lot of time building up my suspension of disbelief in order to get over it.
A lots of it is material science. Not my area of specialty, so I can't judge. Not an expert in AI/Cognitive-Science, so I can't say anything about that either. I can say that they treat antimatter quite correctly: the process to create some takes way more energy than it produces; the SF part being that they made the process a lot more efficient than it is nowadays. Fusion power? Well, again, it's SF, so it doesn't seem unbelievable that the human race has achieved mastery of this stuff in the Eclipse Phase century. Pandora Gates? They violate some shit I've been taught at school, but it's like 2001's monolith: it's basically using principles way beyond our comprehension, so I'm not too angry at the concept. Quantum-entanglement communicators? They're unmanageable by any GM with a bit of scientific knowledge on the topic of relativity. Why? Because they communicate "instantly", and *instantly* doesn't mean anything, literally. *Instantly* depends on the frame; relativity breaks simultaneity, too. If you keep track of that, like seems reasonable in what is a Hard-SF game, then it doesn't work. As a result, I ditched Quantum Communicators entirely.
Psi-Sleighs? I'm not too fond of it, but well, I have seen Hard-SF with psi-stuff multiple times, so I'd say it could be a staple of the genre...
QUOTE (Cheops @ Apr 7 2010, 10:55 AM)
If you believe the dragons, then the dragons were Horrors created during the 2nd cycle who rebelled against the "king" of the Horrors and fled to our world.
So we have a game set in the 6th world, the 8th world, the 4th world... How about one set in the 2nd world? You know, the PCs play as minor horrors or something?
QUOTE (nezumi @ Apr 7 2010, 12:48 PM)
So we have a game set in the 6th world, the 8th world, the 4th world... How about one set in the 2nd world? You know, the PCs play as minor horrors or something?
The 10th, though, wouldn't be interesting. The 8th world is the last one with the Horrors as a threat; humanity did manage to win against them and blow them back into the stone age (a Pyhrric victory, a victory nonetheless).
Hiya!
Nope. Equinox is Space Opera with a twist, where Eclipse Phase is a Hard-SF Transhumanist game. We had some transhumanist elements in it early on (also inspired by Richard Morgan), which were replaced when we found out what Eclipse Phase was about. What we have in there now is pretty cool and unique--something you can only do in the ED/SR universe.
Edit: Kinda. The general background of EX has a threatening existential risk, which to fight is something Most (if not all) player characters inherently want to fight. However, that's an overarching goal, not the focus of a weekly adventure or mission. As far as I understand EP (correct me if I am wrong), the player characters there face a lot of existential risks on a mission-by-mission basis.
Yep. EX doesn't use a percentage-based system, though.
Actually, tying into the Earthdawn/Shadowrun universe. Equinox will be a continuation of that universe. Links between the universes are possible, but kept very light and undisturbing (opposed to Shadowrun, which utilizes a heap of connections to Earthdawn). Players/Gamemasters familiar with all the other games can put them in at their own leisure, they don't really need us (neither need SR developers fear us doing stuff that could hamper them--Earthdawn would be much more of a threat there *eg*).
Sadly, yes. We've been working on EX long before we dared to announce it (2005, to be exact). The reason things take so long is that RedBrick is a company without full-time staff, we all work in our spare time. I'm the Line Developer for Earthdawn and Equinox with Earthdawn taking priority (as that line keeps us afloat). On top, we don't want to rush things and create a game that is sound in both setting and mechanics. You may call it my personal heartbreaker if you want to.
Hope this helps,
Dammi
QUOTE (nezumi @ Apr 7 2010, 08:44 AM)
If I were to put Equinox up against Eclipse Phase, how might I judge the two of them?
Both appear to be transhumanist.
Both appear to be transhumanist.
Nope. Equinox is Space Opera with a twist, where Eclipse Phase is a Hard-SF Transhumanist game. We had some transhumanist elements in it early on (also inspired by Richard Morgan), which were replaced when we found out what Eclipse Phase was about. What we have in there now is pretty cool and unique--something you can only do in the ED/SR universe.
QUOTE (nezumi @ Apr 7 2010, 08:44 AM)
Both appear to put the players against "existential risks" (i.e. - species-terminating threats) - except Eclipse Phase seems to put the players in the role of the government-supported troubleshooters, while Equinox puts them in the role of criminals like pirates or smugglers.
Edit: Kinda. The general background of EX has a threatening existential risk, which to fight is something Most (if not all) player characters inherently want to fight. However, that's an overarching goal, not the focus of a weekly adventure or mission. As far as I understand EP (correct me if I am wrong), the player characters there face a lot of existential risks on a mission-by-mission basis.
QUOTE (nezumi @ Apr 7 2010, 08:44 AM)
Mechanics-wise, both seem to focus on very simple, streamlined rules.
Yep. EX doesn't use a percentage-based system, though.
QUOTE (nezumi @ Apr 7 2010, 08:44 AM)
Equinox does actively try to tie into Shadowrun, while Eclipse Phase does not.
Actually, tying into the Earthdawn/Shadowrun universe. Equinox will be a continuation of that universe. Links between the universes are possible, but kept very light and undisturbing (opposed to Shadowrun, which utilizes a heap of connections to Earthdawn). Players/Gamemasters familiar with all the other games can put them in at their own leisure, they don't really need us (neither need SR developers fear us doing stuff that could hamper them--Earthdawn would be much more of a threat there *eg*).
QUOTE (nezumi @ Apr 7 2010, 08:44 AM)
One is Red-brick (Earthdawn fame), the other is Adam Jury & co. (Shadowrun fame).
Eclipse Phase appears to be actually available and for sale, while Equinox is not.
Eclipse Phase appears to be actually available and for sale, while Equinox is not.
Sadly, yes. We've been working on EX long before we dared to announce it (2005, to be exact). The reason things take so long is that RedBrick is a company without full-time staff, we all work in our spare time. I'm the Line Developer for Earthdawn and Equinox with Earthdawn taking priority (as that line keeps us afloat). On top, we don't want to rush things and create a game that is sound in both setting and mechanics. You may call it my personal heartbreaker if you want to.
Hope this helps,
Dammi
QUOTE (Werewindlefr @ Apr 7 2010, 10:54 AM)
The 10th, though, wouldn't be interesting. The 8th world is the last one with the Horrors as a threat; humanity did manage to win against them and blow them back into the stone age (a Pyhrric victory, a victory nonetheless).
How can you say that's the last one? Who's to say the Horrors weren't driven back to their plane and, now with thousands of years to lick their wounds, aren't plotting a new strategy? Clearly coming to the gaiasphere has some huge advantage worth the effort for them, so why would a single loss after ~80,000 years be the end of them? Doubly so since a big part of Equinox seems to include the continued fight against the remaining Horrors, so they 1) obviously weren't completely defeated anyway and 2) obviously aren't a non-threat still.
QUOTE (Dr. Funkenstein @ Apr 7 2010, 01:03 PM)
How can you say that's the last one? Who's to say the Horrors weren't driven back to their plane and, now with thousands of years to lick their wounds, aren't plotting a new strategy? Clearly coming to the gaiasphere has some huge advantage worth the effort for them, so why would a single loss after ~80,000 years be the end of them? Doubly so since a big part of Equinox seems to include the continued fight against the remaining Horrors, so they 1) obviously weren't completely defeated anyway and 2) obviously aren't a non-threat still.
Well, apparently, it looks like the technology and magitek Humanity can use has become sufficient to win a costly victory against the Horror; victory which wasn't possible in Earthdawn.
I logically expect Humanity to be so powerful in the 10th world that Horrors wouldn't be a threat to them anymore.
Do you have any idea when Equinox will come out?
I'm sorely tempted by both games, but if Equinox isn't available, that pretty clearly puts one on my 'will buy' list.
I'm sorely tempted by both games, but if Equinox isn't available, that pretty clearly puts one on my 'will buy' list.
QUOTE (nezumi @ Apr 7 2010, 01:13 PM)
Do you have any idea when Equinox will come out?
I'm sorely tempted by both games, but if Equinox isn't available, that pretty clearly puts one on my 'will buy' list.
I'm sorely tempted by both games, but if Equinox isn't available, that pretty clearly puts one on my 'will buy' list.
I asked the same thing. Right now, it looks like they *might* have a Fall 2010 release date but word is that could get pushed back quite easily if things don't coalesce as they should.
QUOTE (Werewindlefr @ Apr 7 2010, 02:10 PM)
I logically expect Humanity to be so powerful in the 10th world that Horrors wouldn't be a threat to them anymore.
You are assuming that the Horrors are unable to evolve.
QUOTE (nezumi @ Apr 7 2010, 02:13 PM)
Do you have any idea when Equinox will come out?
Can't say, sorry. We were pushing for 2010 and it might still happen, but I doubt it will be possible to be realistic. There's still a lot of writing to do and we want to run a larger playtest again, not to mention artwork and layout. "It's done whan it's done" is all we can say at the moment.
(Part of me is sorry we put word of the game out so early, but that's life.The intention wasn't to raise false hopes, of course.)
So, what happens to the Dragons? Assuming that Earth is now a floating pile of space detritus... were they simply vaped or did they find a way to jump the gravity well and now exist on some other planet somewhere? After all, if the Horrors could conceivably evolve couldn't the Dragons as well?
I'm interested in learning about what happened during the war and who the big players were for it. Dunkelzahn, for instance, was putting down the foundation for kaers in his will (in the form of both underwater and space habitats), and there's a few hints here and there that some of the other immortals have been working towards similar goals, too. I'm dying to know if any of them had the balls to actually come out and directly warn humanity before the fact so they could prepare properly, or if they continued to be the largely useless self-absorbed sacks that they are in the Sixth World.
QUOTE (Dammi @ Apr 7 2010, 02:27 PM)
Can't say, sorry. We were pushing for 2010 and it might still happen, but I doubt it will be possible to be realistic. There's still a lot of writing to do and we want to run a larger playtest again, not to mention artwork and layout. "It's done whan it's done" is all we can say at the moment.
(Part of me is sorry we put word of the game out so early, but that's life.The intention wasn't to raise false hopes, of course.)
(Part of me is sorry we put word of the game out so early, but that's life.The intention wasn't to raise false hopes, of course.)
Dammi you said playtest ? I'm free to test it !
Horrors are evolving ! Nice will they integrate cyberwares and such ?
QUOTE (Delarn @ Apr 7 2010, 02:13 PM)
Dammi you said playtest ? I'm free to test it !
On the RedBrick forums (where we should probably be having this discussion anyway O.o) they mentioned that they're keeping their playtesting in-house. But, if they open it up I'm right behind you, Delarn.
QUOTE
Horrors are evolving ! Nice will they integrate cyberwares and such ?
You can sure as hell bet Artificer would... Gawd, that's a frightening idea.
QUOTE (Lady Door @ Apr 7 2010, 03:19 PM)
On the RedBrick forums (where we should probably be having this discussion anyway O.o) they mentioned that they're keeping their playtesting in-house. But, if they open it up I'm right behind you, Delarn.
You can sure as hell bet Artificer would... Gawd, that's a frightening idea.
You can sure as hell bet Artificer would... Gawd, that's a frightening idea.
and Thanks I like having horrific ideas
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