As was requested, we're placing one post up as a notice of a Ban from the forums. Frank Trollman, although capable of making many insightful and interesting posts, has violated the Terms of Services far too many times.


This is a direct and completely unprovoked shot at another user, and a new one at that. We have given Frank multiple extra chances, extending him from a permanent ban. He was advised at his last warning, in response to religious intolerant posts (ToS#1) , was his last. This ban is now in effect.

Weaksauce. Very weak.

History is a funny thing. It tells you a lot about the past.

Ok, I refrained from posting in the discussion threads because there's really no point in adding intelligent thought to them, but this is a wee bit too much, even for me.
I mean, a permaban for one of the weakest personal attacks this forum has seen this year? Really?
Couldn't you at least have claimed "his religous attacks" or "posting confidental material" or "posting Loren Colemans address"? What about "He hacked our servers, it's true!"?
I mean, most everyone knew that Frank's gonna get banned for having the audacity to post factual info without sugarcoating theft and making amends to the gods that be beforehand, but admitting that fact by not even trying for a slightly believable reason for his ban makes the whole thing look even more childish.

Frankly, I could care less that Frank posted the letter. Mosts of his posts in regards to the CGL threads were intelligent and well thought out. Frank was banned because he made a completely unwarranted personal attack on another poster. It was weak? Were we supposed to wait for him to make a stronger one? Was his post supposed to be extremely offensive to earn his last mark? Just so we're clear, we didn't ban him because of one post. Every user has a finite number of warns they may receive. Frank earned more than that.

After his last Warning, already mentioned, he was told he would get no further warnings. Frank has been told that before. I was one of the mods that made sure that his knee jerk ban for posting the letter in the first place was rescinded. It wasn't warranted. This one was. Or do you think it's now acceptable to take shots at a new user for no reason what so ever?

Wow. That's a seriously weak reason for a permaban. Yes, I'm sure he's had a lot of warnings, but:

A. Permabans (like diamonds) are forever. If Frank really is "disruptive" as you claim, you lose little by giving him more rope to hang himself.
B. Many of his other warnings were years ago. It's hard to see such a kneejerk reaction as anything other than personal.
C. Banning someone for an extremely weak personal attack sets a bad precedent. Shall we sit around the digital dumpshock campfire and sing Kumbaya, or are we allowed to vigorously debate? Because I can tell you how interested I am in reading a forum where everyone gets along as a happy family (there is a reason I don't bother with the Battletech forums, after all).

If you want to moderate out of existence anything resembling a heated discussion, that's your prerogative. The forums will be worse off for it.

I regrettably admit that I get into heated discussions on a regular basis. But when I do, I usually (but not always) stay focused on the argument itself rather than the person. And when I do stray, it's only relation to what a person has been saying in that argument. Frank, on the other hand, has regularly and consistently been a Grade A jerk to people. He hunts down personal information and posts it, flames people for their religious views, and encourages other people to do the same. Regularly and consistently. At least when I lose my temper it's because of the argument at hand and it quickly passes. Not so for that shifty, conniving little man. Despite what his adoring sycophants of the month might think.

The forums are better off without him. And being a jerk myself who's probably close to being permanently banned, too, I think that's saying a lot.

I will miss Frank. Many of his posts have engendered deep thought and expanded my Shadowrun horizons.

I have also been in the position of telling someone, "One more incident, no matter how small, and you're out." I honestly don't know how many 'incidents' Frank may have caused. But some people are in the position of having to decide when enough is enough.

Frank was

1. Articulate
2. Intelligent
3. adept
4. well written

None of them excuse breaking the rules. I don't really get the discussion here.

BlueMax

I agree. He was fun. I'll miss him - but he never picked on me

Maybe instead of picking on that particular quote, we should choose something more fiery he was warned for before? His religious comments were good. I'm sure if we e-mailed him, he'd send us some of his real classics. Then no one can complain, right?

Yeah, i actually liked his style of posting.
It's close enough to how i'm thinking of responding most of the time . .

And yes, i think taking THAT specific posting as the reason for the ban is a bit absurd and weak an argument

I am extrapolating from other postings and comments, but I believe it fell under the concept of 'Every damn time we give you an inch you then decide to see if the mile's possible. Enough, no more inches, last try.'

That's reaching. Particularly as it came in answer to a comment about how he wouldn't remember him. That's not even as much of a personal attack as the crap Aaron did all the time, back before I decided to just permanently ignore him several years ago.

I guess it's a straw that broke the camel's back situation from the mods' point of view, but I still think it's funny that Frank was banned for his quote above which was a direct response to this:



But, in this very thread we have this quote from Dr. Funkenstein:





Frank was pretty much gone to begin with, but he's still the reason I ever found this place and got back into Shadowrun. I still wish this sci-fi-horror mission he ran could have continued (or I could get my hands on a copy of the notes to run it myself.) Reading that helped me get a better handle on playing and running the game.

Speaking as somebody who's occasionally gotten into an... energetic discussion with you one a few topics, I never felt you'd taken a personal shot at me. I can't say that of everybody I've disagreed with over time, but that's life on the interwebs.

All I ever heard about Frank were "legends" since he seemed in remission, or hibernation or ... whatever while I was posting, and apparently returned while I was gone. I guess now I won't get to mix it up with him, but finding out that the Mods take their responsibility to keep things at least passably civil on here is actually encouraging to me. As to the idea that it was a "weak" personal attack, I was under the impression it was just the final straw over a long lineage.

I concur.


No, really.
Even Frank admitted (or seemed to) that he had broken the TOS repeatedly before. Due to this, he should have KNOWN better.

The only other person I've know of that got a perma-ban was on another forum, and he deserved it too.
Though the owner of said board should have gotten a perma-ban too for intentionally trying to incite the guy into going off, but he was the owner.

By the laws of the U.S. at least, even one little screwup can get you busted big time if you are always getting in trouble.

Congratulations, that just made him a martyr (like he wanted to, anyway) – this excuse of a reason will just reinforce the impression that the ban came on request (which was pretty glaring since the letter incident)… and people were just looking for something to pin it on.

Martyr?

Excuse me a moment while I fall out of my chair from laughing. Okay. Whew. Much better.

Martyr.

<falls down again>

Of course – people would even excuse you breaking your neck in the process. After all, to paraphrase you: "The forums are better off without" you, too… "being a jerk […] who's probably close to being permanently banned" and all. The latter "saying a lot" only that you are eloquently proving to be said "jerk" right now.

Aww, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to make fun of your stalwart "martyr." Serious business is afoot! I do believe the very fate of the entire world hinges on the self-styled Trollman's status on a small roleplaying game message forum, one he willingly and instantly forfeited his membership to through his actions after myriad last-chance warnings and retractions of permanent bans in the past. Someone should totally make a YouTube video or get him on FOX News or something. The world must know what happened here these past few days. In fact, I bet FOX News would win an instant Peabody Award for interviewing such an important, universe-changing figure such as he. Truly, a Nelson Mandela, Maxmillian Kolbe, or Martin Luther King he is. Maybe you should start work on the novelization of these events, or maybe even a screenplay.

(Oh damn, I just fell down again.)

As an aside, thanks for wishing me dead. It's always nice to know people are rational enough to wish such things upon other people simply for having a difference of opinion, let alone simply for laughing at such a preposterous notion as martyrdom. XD

No worries, all I see is you making fun of yourself and proving to be a "jerk".

But thanks, I'll put even more emphasis on the tongue-in-cheek part, next time.

Nothing personal – just the karma of "better off without".

Unlike him, I don't go around spending all my free time trying to rile people up, ridicule new members, or incite mass hysteria over trivial concerns that have absolutely nothing to do with the vast majority of the people being riled up. I actually, you know, come here to discuss and even play the game, and, again regrettably, I do sometimes get into heated discussions while doing so because I get overly passionate or zealous in the course of the discussion. But at least I don't do it solely for the sake of being a douche or to see my name heralded as a saint or martyr. (Seriously. Do you not realize how ridiculously asinine that is?) The Trollman, however, does. Hell, he came out of nowhere just to do that here, and proceeded to spam the same vitriol across half a dozen other message boards. Several of which saw fit to ban him, too.

I'm loud, I'm blunt, and I'm aggressive. I know that. But at least I'm not a dick for the sake of being a dick, nor do I try to hide my intent or my opinion behind long-winded speeches and feeble attempts to sound like a pseudo-intellectual. I actually say what I mean and have no problem suffering the consequences thereof after the fact. And I certainly don't expect (and would be absolutely disgusted by) sycophants running around rallying on about how unfair a perfectly sane, reasonable, and well-deserved ban is, let alone throwing around words like "martyr" with any kind of a straight face.

Oh, and no amount of winky emoticons or edited posts make up for the fact that you wished me dead simply for laughing at that stupid notion of matyrdom. If you're going to try and act like you're taking the high road, you may actually want to stay up there rather than doing that sort of thing. Especially if your goal is to prove me a worse person.

Your gravedancing is in poor taste. That's all we're saying.

Thank you, Cpt. Obvious.



Let me be perfectly clear: I did not ninja-ed any of my posts in this thread.

Disagreeing with posters and pointing out that someone's ban is well-deserved is hardly "gravedancing." As with most people who seem to get their feathers ruffled over things I say, maybe you should read both my first post and the one that I was replying to right above it before throwing terms like that around. Octopii said the forums would be worse off without him. I disagreed and explained why. Then Rotbart comes in decrying him a matyr, and I proceeded to laugh my ass off at that notion. At which point, apparently, I deserved to die.

Contrary to your current posting style, your first post qualifies as such – as for the rest…

You should try that, too – "like he wanted to, anyway" and all.

Edit: In fact, for reading comprehension:


Emphasis mine. /Edit


So you're feeling a little martyr, too?

I'm not saying you "deserve to die", although I do find it ironic in light of the comments on martyrdom you've made.

I am saying it's in poor taste.

Taste is subjective, and you don't have to agree with me. But since apparently a lot of us are finding your gravedancing to be in poor taste, maybe there's a point to be made?

<shrugs> If agreeing that the ban was appropriate and that the forums are better off without his kind of posts to rile people up, insult new members, or encourage religious intolerance is "gravedancing," so be it. And no, being upset that some baiting troll wishes me to break my neck is not even remotely similar to rolling my eyes at calling someone who's been banned a "martyr.".

How did Frank get banned for that, and Doc Funk didn't get banned for similar (worse?) attacks in the same thread - and as a regular, I know that Doc has also been repeatedly given time outs before.

The two are pretty similar in behaviour and histories, seems very weird not to ban both of them - even Doc Funk's posts in this thread (calling someone a a shifty and coniving little man) are worse.

What IS a personal attack if that isn't one?

Feel free to find a single post where I advocated or indulged in religious intolerance. Feel free to find a single post where I outright attacked a new poster after they basically said "I doubt if you'd remember me from another forum." Feel free to find a single post where I posted people's personal information or encouraged other people to do so. Feel free to find a single post where I posted private communications without permission. Feel free to find a single post where I was permanently banned in the past. Feel free to find a single post even hinting that I've been giving 'final warnings' because of that abysmal type of behavior that has no business on a forum dedicated to the discussion of a roleplaying game.

I should warn you, however, to not waste your time looking because I can assure you that you won't find anything like that from me. What you will find is me growling at people who say stupid things, and then only because they've said stupid things. You know, like this asinine "martyr" crap. You may even find me making a few snide remarks about people in the same vein. But you won't find any of the vile things Trollman does on a regular basis, even if he hides it behind well-written posts and holier-than-thou attitudes that people eat up wholesale simply because, for the month anyway, they're also upset about the same people he's ranting, raving, and spamming multiple forums about.

Sure, I'll admit that it was probably wrong of me to call him a shifty, conniving little man even if that's what I firmly believe him to be, especially in context of the conversation at hand at the time. But people get away with calling me much worse around here without warnings on a regular basis, too. Not that it's an excuse so much as a "so what?" If I get put on another break because of it, so be it. It'll be deserved if it's deemed to be so. I can tell you what I won't be doing if that happens, though: Trying to get people to rant and rave while I go around spamming other forums, ridiculing the moderators here for doing so. You can't say the same about Trollman.

There is a difference between a warning and a ban (temporary or permanent). You get warned for any post that is against the ToS - if you've received enough warnings, you'll get a temporary ban. A permanent ban is the last action that is taken and not one that is done lightly.

So much for now, this thread is closed.