FYI.

This has occured a couple of times on Dumpshock, and we've dealt with it the same way each time, by having the information removed. The most recent user who posted this type of information did not receive a warning for it, as it was not a part of the ToS agreement. Personal information such as home addresses or phone numbers have no connection with game Shadowrun, so there is no reason that they should be posted on these forums. Since they could very easily lead to issues of harassment as well, we're putting this restriction in place.

ooooOOOOOHHHhhhh... So THATS why Korean telemarketers keeps calling me at 3 am to ask if I want a bigger.....*cough*

......Ill just keep that in mind. Thanks Fisty..

Hate to bring this up in yet another thread, but what about the charts Ketjak posted elsewhere on the web? That contains financial info, yet directly pertains to the future of Shadowrun.

I suppose there's a difference between personal info and private info.

Being Ketjak is one of the owners of said Finacials, he has a certain amount of entitlement to posting links to said information. If we recieve a takedown order from the other owners of Catalyst we will put that up for consideration. Also note he posted said finacials before the actual inception of this addition to the TOS. So currently the links remain.

Someone's forgetting about the GM/Players registry

(The actual TOS article doesn't conflict with this use, I'm just promoting precision in language)

~J

THe big thing that they're trying to promote is the involuntary use of private information. If I were to post up my home address and phone number, for example, it would be fair game. I'm not, however. I get enough death threats as it is

Bull

This policy can be used to protect criminals, which I do hope is not intended. Also, how far does this "no linking" policy go? Can I for example post a "Link to a forum where relevant information is not censored"?

More like:

I'm too cynical for that emote.

This part of the ToS seems tailor made to protect Coleman and punish whistleblowers. Is that intended?

Reality check time.

Would you like it if I decided to hunt down your personal information, including your phone number, social security number, home address, income, credit card numbers, PIN numbers, or anything else I could find and then post it here? How about if I do that for all of your loved ones, too, just because I felt like it? Would you enjoy that? Do I have the right to do it even if I don't like you? Would it have any possible effect on anything worth a damn even if you were a "criminal?" And do I have the right to make that determination either way?

I'll save you the trouble: The answer to all of those questions is a resounding "HELL NO." And do you wanna know why? Because this is a fucking gaming forum. Absolutely none of that has any business here, or anywhere else for that matter. Unless you're a lawyer and/or otherwise directly involved with the situation, NONE of it is any of your damn business... certainly not to this degree. And other people's personal information definitely isn't anyone's fucking business in any other circumstance either.

It's pathetic how people are going on and on about it like any of it means a single damn thing, or that anything they're saying is going to impact any of the events on even the most microscopic of levels.

It's one thing to be made aware of a situation and to share basic news about it. It's quite another for people to try to go around acting like they're some kind of self-righteous vigilante and defender of all that is good and wholesome in the world who are out to make the world a better place because some asshole is allegedly stealing money from a gaming company. And then to actually do so through asinine acts like posting private information and spamming forum after forum with the same regurgitated, second-hand (at best) bullshit is just... well, absolutely pathetic and sad. The fact that the moderators let it keep going and going on without just ending it once and for all is amazing, especially in lieu of all the people going around accusing them of partaking in some masterful conspiracy theory to... you know what, I don't even know what the fucking conspiracy theory is because it's so God damned insane.

You know what's a novel idea? How about everyone just get the fuck over it and go back to actually discussing the game rather than trying to act like armchair private dicks?

Not as pathetic as ranting about it, and not as sad as trying to tell others what they should talk about with regards to Shadowrun. How about you start discussing the game, and not the other posters? You know, pracise what you preach? Novel idea?

For the mods: "Financial Information" is a very broad term. I'd like a clarification if posting information about theft or embezzlement falls under that, or not.

I actually do. When's the last time you did?

I don't tell people to stick to "game discussion", nor to stop discussing CGL's situation. Hence I am not preaching water and drinking by not sticking to discussing SR rules, unlike others.

<shrugs> And I'm not going around making ridiculous accusations and implications about crazy conspiracy theories.

Psst, there's the "Ignore function". You can use it and ignore all those people who dare posting something you disagree with. Saves you a lot of time and energy, just in case you're somehow unable (for whatever reason) to simply avoid reading such threads.

No, it isn't. While the posting in the CGL-thread had been the last reason for changing the ToS, it wasn't the sole reason. We're not affiliated with CGL, we don't want to protect them or cover up their crimes; instead we want to prevent that people see their private details posted at public forums. That includes every user here. As Bull pointed out, there are reasons to post private contact information, but that should be done by the person itself and not by someone else.

Fuchs, Dr. Funkenstein, please cool down and don't let that become a personal attack-fest.

So, financial transactions like Coleman's "withdrawals" are protected? If people (knowingly or no) deny such things happened (and then decry the ones who state so as liars, and worse) it's not allowed to link such?

*looks at Fuchs' replies*

So...he really *IS* saying he wants people to be posting his real name, home address, home phone number,
where he works, his back account information, PINs, credit card numbers, and the same of all his loved ones.

Honestly, I thought the reason for this was to protect *ALL* the *USERS* of these forums. Since Mr. Coleman(either
of them), as far as I know, is NOT a dumpshock subscriber, it would seem that it is not meant to protect him any
more then it is to protect Fuchs family.

Remember: this is the Internet, and there are people who spend their time searching for information to steal
other people's identities or to select people to victimize in other ways.

No, I want to know if posting the list of Coleman's withdrawls - which does not allow anyone to see his adress, PIN code, or other information - is protected by this ToS.

That is my question. If you can't see the difference between preventing ID theft and that then I am sorry for you.

But please stop trying to muddle the issue and use scare tactics. The point is: Can we post stuff like "Here, from January to December he withdrew X amount of dollars from the widow and orphan fund". It's not "Here he lives, here's where he works, that's his bank acocunt number and that's where he keeps his koi."

Or for those who still go off about adresses, account numbers and PINs:

The question is: Does posting "Coleman withdrew this sum in 2009 from a CGL bank account. He withdrew X on the first, Y on the second, Z on the third of January... (etc)" qualify as financial information that is violating this new ToS?

Fuchs, no, there will be no problem posting up info like you suggest unless it has personally idetifiable information. If that account number was to appear, yes it woukd be taken down, but the current links to Ketjak's info are safe, as it contains no PII

We've taken down links before that lead to porn for example. You can find that on your own. The same goes with this. The example given were in fact links to sites that contained the information in question. That's not the purpose for Dumpshock.


From what? Someone here being able to track them down? I'm really not seeing your point.


Let's set aside for a moment the idea that we are toeing a party line as you're insinuating. Are you suggesting that we should leave anyone open to harassment or worst due to information that's been posted on Dumpshock, or promote invasion of privacy?

It's a baiting question similar to "Have you stopped beating your wife?'.

Unfortunately it still catches things.

It's been said before, it'll be said again. It goes as far as the moderators and admin feel it needs to go. It will be a judgement call on their part each and every time. ANd it will be THEIR judgement call, and no one elses.

The TOS is not a bill of rights. It's a set of guidelines that users are expected to follow. Period.

Bull

You're gonna make sense sound like pirates.

"More like guidelines than actual rules really."
-Cpt. Barbosa

That's what I wanted to know. Call it baiting question or whatever you please, but I wanted to know if we still can post and link to information such as those tables, as long as they do not sport the account numbers. That was not clear since "financial information" can cover a lot of things.

So, when can we invoke the right to parlay?

I would like to add that an incredible amount of debate occurred by the Mods. We did our best to add only a policy that would protect against details that could support 'stalking' but not put us in the area of policing 'whistle-blowers'.

We have tried to remain neutral and independent in this turmoil as best as possible. There is grumbling from both camps, one that we over moderate, the other that we are allowing 'private emails'. If the best definition of a moderate is that both polarized ends are mad at you, then we have succeeded.