QUOTE (Karoline @ Apr 27 2010, 06:12 PM)
I do have to admit that those positive quality points disappear rather quickly when making a mage, and so I've seen some GMs have magic related qualities (positive and negative) not count towards the 35BP limit. This makes things like aspected mage alot more attractive, since it is a very serious hit compared to most other things of similar BP.
Agreed. And some things, like martial arts, ought to be skills. A personal annoyance is Obscure and Blandness. They do the same thing, one for the real world, one for the matrix, and one is priced double the other. Go figure.
Sometimes I feel like the 35bp limit is too small. Sometimes you have a rather cool idea or backstory, and you want to stat it. Because, really, a character should have an interesting place to come from and some qualities to reflect it. But you also want to fit in qualities to make your character effective in their chosen role, and I don't mean min-maxed to hell and back, but effective in the 10-15 dice pool range that says your character knows what they're doing. The problem comes in when you try to fit both in the points you have to work with, and you're 5-10 points over, and its rather annoying.
It would be nice if GM's in general would relax on the 35 limit a bit, actually look at what a player is trying to do on a case by case basis, and give them a little leeway if it fits with a theme. I'd rather have a player feeling into the game, behind a neat concept they like, contributing to the game instead of rerolling a more generic archetype cause of a knee-jerk gm reaction. I mean, there is plenty of stupid powergamey min-maxey shit you can do
within the limit already. 5-10 points here and there of flavorful qualities add up. If someone wants to play a crash victim who got their sin back eventually, and ended up with both Mistaken Identity and Digital Doppelganger out of it, which is kinda neat - but if that same player is the playgroups Magician, well, crap, no room for a Mentor Spirit or a Spirit Pact, or other mage-related qualities.
I, personally, think the 35 limit is too small, but also that some qualities are really not properly priced or worth taking, which doesn't help either, and that it is ultimately up to a gm to say no - or yes - to things the players bring up. An optimizer will work within the rules to get what they want anyway, but a more casual, inspired player might not have the persistence or book-fu to do the same, and it just hurts that kind of player who just want to have fun.
Solutions to your problem? Use your discretion. Be candid with your players. Tell it to them straight: if you have a cool concept, run it by me. But if you bring a cyberzombie to the table, by god, i'm going to eat
all the cheetos, then go to the toilet with your character sheet in hand, and put it on myspace.'
Yes, that means I do have a cyberzombie build I could use out the door of character generation. Would I ever actually use it? No, no I wouldn't. Instead, have some houserules i've spotted around dumpshock that might be of use.
Saw a decent houserule in a thread last week or so, for this. Player's get to take up to 70 in positive qualities - but anything over 35
must have an equal number of negative qualities to go with it. Subject to the gm going 'no, that's stupid', of course.
Kerenshara also has a pretty decent list of minor argh-reducing houserules and things, in the '
seeking seattle runners' thread from ages ago. Since its on-topic, i'm going to paste it here.
QUOTE (Kerenshara @ Oct 24 2009, 12:23 PM)
IF you choose to play a Technomancer of an Awakened character, I DO NOT count the cost of the Qualities directly related to those abilities against the 70 Karma limit on Qualities. That would include:
• Technomancer
• Paragon
• Wild Technomancer
• Adept
• Mystic Adept
• Magician
• Mentor Spirit
• Aspected Magician
If you have another quality you feel should be added to that list, I will listen and approve/disapprove on a 1-on-1 basis. Latent Technomancer and Latent Awakening still both count against the limit.
I do NOT consider the "Martial Arts Qualities" from Arsenal to be subject to the 70 Karma limit.