So much to my eternal shame much of my early role playing was done in the rifts system. Its outdated and has an incredible problem with power creep and balance issues. However i fell in love with the concept of the juicer. Well recently I've been going over the rules for drugs in SR4a to see what I could do with the character concept.

The end resuilt of the experament was that you just couldn't combine a bunch of drugs to make up for the lack ware when it comes to pure combat effectiveness. I've noticed that alot of people have tried to find some way of getting K-10 to work with a character but its really not an option that works. Its availability is to high to get reliably and the 18 stun damage is rediculus.

However I did find a combination of drugs that does seem to be useful. Maybe not in a stand alone build with the focus completely on drugs but it seems to be useful to many types of characters.

the combination is as follows.
Cram +1 Reaction and +1 Initiative pass for 6 stun at the end of several hours.
Jazz +1 Reaction and +1 Initiative pass for disorientation for liek 10 mins after combat
Kamikaze the original for +1 Body +1 agility +2 Strength +1 Willpower +1 Initiative pass and rating 3 high pain tolerance for 6 stun damage at the end of the combat as well.

Dug despencers can be added to armor fairly cost effectively and cost no essence.

Over all the cost fo the drugs is pretty cheap allowing characters to avoid other essence or nuyen heavy options to increase the number of initiative passes. A few character concepts I've used this combo with include

almost full conversion cyborg (cyber limb replacement for just about everything except skull which is stupid)
Pistol adept who focuses on agility and dodging bullets (let me focus on agility and combat reflexes for muy essence)
hacker face rigger combat specialist (was so far stretched in so many areas that the costs for other IPs was a bit restrictive)

The down sides from this combo include
having to buy the drugs over the course of several runs (not too bad especially if one of your contacts is a dealer.)
potential essence loss ether killing the character or causing them to lose an ability (thats a big one. trying to buy off addictions with karma as they appear helps but the DM can apparently fiat the level of addiction he want syou to have if he chooses and mess you up. the essence loss though only happens when you have the burnout level of addiction and is only one of the many negatives that can occur due to drug burnout)
12 stun damage if using all three drugs (can be mititgated by only using kamikaze during times of great need and using a med kit to recover some of the damage before it all hits you at once since there will be a delay between kamikaze and cram)

I wanted to know what people thought of this combo. would you as a GM allow it and how often would you avoid the dice rolls to see if the character is addicted and just give them a level of the addiction? Also if someone would like to possibly play a character using this combo or a portion there of I'd appreciate some feedback since my shadowrun game has kind of petered off for now.

No idea what you mean by juicer but Arsenal has rules for speedballing, p73.

I think you'd be better off developing some cheap nanotech instead of trying to develop from within the current drugs.

Going from memory, a Juice is a Rifts character class who chooses to undergo chemical treatments instead of augmentations of powered armor to achieve combat effectiveness.

juicer description

I created something along these lines back in 3rd Edition.

As I recall, I started with an implanted Guardian Angel advanced medkit/biomonitor, and had it linked to an assortment of Auto-Injectors. I also had the Borrowed Time negative quality linked to the set-up, and applied some attribute and skill-boosting qualities to that (thereby simulating the overall boost to the character's abilities, all dependent on the Guardian Angel). That gave me the basics. The rest I had to work out with my GM, which mostly consisted of creating a positive quality that staved off the effects of addiction (which were particularly brutal in 3rd Edition).

I'm not sure how I'd approach it in 4th Edition, but I'd definitely start with an Implanted Nanobiomonitor and Nanohives.

Personally I wouldn't be shamed by your Rifts pedigree, yes the game has some serious issues but it's hard to beat for serious over the top fun.

For a strictly off the shelf solution what you've got here isn't half bad, as a GM I'd got pretty lenient.

Now from a homebrew perspective if I as a GM was working with a a player to get a juicer into shadowrun or introduce a similar concept into the game I'd stat it up as a piece of low essence cyberware with lots of IP's, bonuses to dodge, perception, etc etc and then I'd have the character roll edge plus essence dice (just to keep it from being way cheesy to take this plus a bunch of ware yet not another form of magic) each hit is two months your character gets to live before the juicer process kills them, six months if I was being generous (although at that point you start to get into intervals that will at least most campaigns. Presto you've got a speed freak who's living on borrowed time but is likely the fastest thing out there.

This is a little inaccurate. Very few juicers from my understanding become murder wraiths and the juicer actually has to undertake some sort of process altering his drugs with alchemeical mixtures or what not for it to happen but overall yes.

If it helps imagine a long time steroids user whoes hoppped up on meth coke and PCP. take that and multiply that a few times and there you go a rifts juicer.



Thematically this is probably true. Mechanically I'd rather not go through all the work negotiating with my DM trying to get the character type I want when there may very well be what I need in the already existing rule set. it makes negotiaiting much easier. and even though there doesn't seem to be a built in method to completely create the juicer concept this isnt a bad alternative.



Thanks for the input!

Shadowrun has always kept a safe distance from drugs (likely for political reasons). In my game, we have created some new drugs to sort of fill out the ranks, because the current ones are just painfully underpowered and far too likely to get you permanently hooked. I'd recommend going the same way; talk with your GM, and design some actual, effective drugs. Not only will it make more fun for your character concept, it makes those street thugs a challenge again, because a two nuyen rent-a-cop can become Rambo with the right chems pumping.

I think that juicers would be a great thing to add. Some of the net resources out there have a whole catalog of drugs.

From my faded recollection aren't juicers basically working on borrowed time anyhow?

As for game mechanics I would ignore the drugs that exist like cram and novacoke, and make up something that works for you.

As a game mechanic that I would use, is the drugs leach 1 essence out of your system per month. The injector cyberware costs .1 essence,
but basically at the end of 6 months, you dip below 0 essence and will die off. Gives you the last month to play out the bright candle burning out.

As per borrowed time, I would allow number of point to be distributed on any attributes they decide with no limit. (I am not sure what the point value is in sr4)

Burning off essence seems reasonable for *regular use*. However, if you use it less than once a week, that seems excessive.

Most extreme Shadowrun combat drugs should NOT be physically addictive. They're made by corps, for corp use. If they are physically addictive, the addiction should be replaceable by a safe alternative (like replacing jazz with caffeine). They may still be psychologically addictive.

Most extreme Shadowrun combat drugs will likely be used above their safe dosages. The result would be physical and stun damage to the user from overuse of his muscular-skeletal system (pulled muscles, torn tendons, etc.) as the body is basically redlined. However, this is defined by use of the body in combat, rather than simply use of the drug.

Most extreme Shadowrun combat drugs will be fairly expensive. The corps can get them cheap, but they realize they're sitting on a gold mine, so they'll sell them for much more via grey channels. The addendum to this is, remove the rule in M&M saying a doctor's chemical lab can basically create any chemical or drug. That's ridiculous. These are patented, secret formula chemicals, that require an extremely complex process (a facility) to produce. The formula alone is worth a small fortune.

Many recreational drugs will have low or no essence cost (when used in moderation), but will be highly addictive. Imagine cigarettes with a heroine analog put in. You get a slightly better high from smoking, but the addiction is extreme, nearly unbeatable, and nearly immediate. You can smoke all your life and probably life to a nice, ripe age, but you're never quitting.

the only time I ever played rifts, I played a Juicer Assassin. I do remember the gm saying that the process could be reversed but very exspensive and would leave you feeling like you were constantly moving in slow motion.

COUNT ME IN WITHIN THIS GAME...IM JUST WILING TO LEARN

Ahh yes that takes me back to our days of playing rifts. I had quite a few juicers though I think my favorite juicer was the mega juicer and juicer drug of choice was Boinggo. I if I remember right it was equal to drinking 12 pots of coffee and taking a hit of speed =). Funny this came up I was tossing around the idea of trying to create a juicer for SR4 as well hmm..

You know .... this sounds like a great idea for a sourcebook. Include all kinds of crazy drugs and other useful cocktails. Enhanced propellants, fuel additives, chemical batteries.