Full Version: Would gun foci be unbalanced?
I don't want to start a flame war. I have no dog in this race. I'm just wondering if allowing ranged weapon foci would break the game. I understand the fluff explanation: a focus can only be active as long as it's in contact with the magician/adept it's bonded to. I'm asking about crunch: would a gun adept with a gun focus be noticeably overpowered compared with a (for example) sword adept with a sword focus and similar powers?
Imagine a Mage who could cast one or two 5(+net hits)K energybolts per combat phase... without drain. There's pretty much your answer.
Allowing such a thing would make adepts significantly more powerful. A firearm weapon focus would add still more dice to the huge dice pools that gun adepts are already capable of having. And the ability to bypass a spirit's immunity to normal weapons with a ranged attack would make them far more effective against spirits, too.
It probably wouldn't break the game, but it would be giving a significant power boost to one type of character, so if you did that, you might want to consider ways to beef up mundanes, too, to keep it balanced.
It probably wouldn't break the game, but it would be giving a significant power boost to one type of character, so if you did that, you might want to consider ways to beef up mundanes, too, to keep it balanced.
Even without ressorting to magic dogma, just imagine what will happen with all thoses bullets and the differences and similitud between astral and physical space.
What happen when you shoot a bullet in the physical world when this bullet is a focus and thus will also impact the astral world ? You are in astral combat, running 100m/s shooting with your astral gun at another mage.. where are thoses bullets going in the real world ?
I have no real trouble with a spear or boomerang astral foci. But a gun is more trouble than just the "stay in contact" part, you have to enchant each and every bullet individually. And the mecanism will just not work in Astral space as specified in the rules, (an astral chainsaw is just a very heavy club).
What happen when you shoot a bullet in the physical world when this bullet is a focus and thus will also impact the astral world ? You are in astral combat, running 100m/s shooting with your astral gun at another mage.. where are thoses bullets going in the real world ?
I have no real trouble with a spear or boomerang astral foci. But a gun is more trouble than just the "stay in contact" part, you have to enchant each and every bullet individually. And the mecanism will just not work in Astral space as specified in the rules, (an astral chainsaw is just a very heavy club).
Making guns into Weapon Foci wouldn't break the game, as long as only melee attacks with that gun apply the force bonus. E.g. an Assault Rifle as a weapon focus would only add the focus effects for attacks using the rifle to bash enemies.
Could also look into modified rules where expendable foci are paid for at creation not use (make them learn the first way then the second metamagic) so they can make a clip of very expensive bullets that have an anchored slay spirit spell on them (or dragon...)
But pistols and all can be foci, the rules had a point in them where it only applied to melee attacks iirc in one of ht ebooks past or present
But pistols and all can be foci, the rules had a point in them where it only applied to melee attacks iirc in one of ht ebooks past or present
QUOTE (Glyph @ Jul 23 2010, 09:43 AM) 
And the ability to bypass a spirit's immunity to normal weapons with a ranged attack would make them far more effective against spirits, too.
Wasn't this the main reason that there is no non-spell ranged attacks that affect things immune to normal weapons, aside from distance strike?
Just pick up Attunement (Pistols) instead. It's sort of like a focus anyway.
Yes.
It's debatable wtih other kinds of projectiles like bows.
It's debatable wtih other kinds of projectiles like bows.
And I thought one Player wanting a Monofiliment Whip Focus was bad...
QUOTE (CanRay @ Jul 23 2010, 11:00 AM)
And I thought one Player wanting a Monofiliment Whip Focus was bad...
yeah, but thats actually legal by RAW.
And very usefull.
particularly when str is your dump stat.
Guns as foci gives you the movie Wanted.
Nobody wants that.
Nobody wants that.
Also gives you the comic book wanted.
And what's wrong with a 3/4 naked Angelina Jolie covered in tattoos?
And what's wrong with a 3/4 naked Angelina Jolie covered in tattoos?
QUOTE (Laodicea @ Jul 23 2010, 11:18 AM)
yeah, but thats actually legal by RAW.
Yeah. I still doubled the price of enchantment due to the extensively manufactured nature of the object.
The Player didn't disagree.
QUOTE (Hagga @ Jul 23 2010, 04:31 AM)
...
Just pick up Attunement (Pistols) instead. It's sort of like a focus anyway.
Just pick up Attunement (Pistols) instead. It's sort of like a focus anyway.
That's what I was thinking when I first started reading through this thread. Otherwise it's Gun Mages and Magelock Pistols here we come.
Though a pistol of some kind acting as a power focus for a magician could be interesting... Watch as the person shoots a lighting bolt or fireball out of the barrel.
"All he's got is a Streetline Special, what's he going to do with it?" *BOOM* "Um... Other than that?" *KA-ZAP* "OK... I'm seriously thinking that the Ares Predator is not the end-all, be-all the guy at the gun store said it would."
QUOTE (SpellBinder @ Jul 23 2010, 07:21 PM)
That's what I was thinking when I first started reading through this thread. Otherwise it's Gun Mages and Magelock Pistols here we come.
Though a pistol of some kind acting as a power focus for a magician could be interesting... Watch as the person shoots a lighting bolt or fireball out of the barrel.
Though a pistol of some kind acting as a power focus for a magician could be interesting... Watch as the person shoots a lighting bolt or fireball out of the barrel.
Mana bolts out of the pistol.
Talk about a very sad armored troll.
gauss rifle foucs for a mystic adept sniper. What can't it kill 
i allow ranged weapon focuses. the only bonus you get from them in ranged combat though are the extra dice.
2
2
QUOTE (SpellBinder @ Jul 23 2010, 02:21 PM)
That's what I was thinking when I first started reading through this thread. Otherwise it's Gun Mages and Magelock Pistols here we come.
Though a pistol of some kind acting as a power focus for a magician could be interesting... Watch as the person shoots a lighting bolt or fireball out of the barrel.
Though a pistol of some kind acting as a power focus for a magician could be interesting... Watch as the person shoots a lighting bolt or fireball out of the barrel.
Now that's a very interesting idea. A gun as a Combat Spellcasting focus.
As written, Guns can be weapon focuses very easily. You can enchant anything, after all. However, weapon focuses only benefit melee attacks, so it only works when gunbashing.
As a side benefit, though, a pair of warhawks as weapon foci 1's let you take a pair of guns into the astral realms. You can't fire them or anything, but, hey, style counts. Ahem.
On the other hand, other types of foci are totally doable, and actually useful. A sustaining focus for Detection spells, for example, is rather useful. Pair it with an Enhance Aim spell, and you've basically made a magical scope. How bout Detect Life/Detect Enemies (just tell your team its Detect Targets). It would have to be high rating or Edged to get past object resistance, but Analyze Device does give you extra dice to shoot people.
Yeah, for a combat mage, a Detection sustaining foci gun is a pretty potent buy.
Additionally, if you have Extended Masking and a foci weapon(not necessarily a weapon focus), you can use it to sneak it past magical security.
Another possibility for adepts are Infusion foci. Sure, you need the metamagic for it, but a gun that gives you a few free dice of Improved Weapon Skill: Pistols/automatics/whatever or even combat sense aren't too bad.
As a side benefit, though, a pair of warhawks as weapon foci 1's let you take a pair of guns into the astral realms. You can't fire them or anything, but, hey, style counts. Ahem.
On the other hand, other types of foci are totally doable, and actually useful. A sustaining focus for Detection spells, for example, is rather useful. Pair it with an Enhance Aim spell, and you've basically made a magical scope. How bout Detect Life/Detect Enemies (just tell your team its Detect Targets). It would have to be high rating or Edged to get past object resistance, but Analyze Device does give you extra dice to shoot people.
Yeah, for a combat mage, a Detection sustaining foci gun is a pretty potent buy.
Additionally, if you have Extended Masking and a foci weapon(not necessarily a weapon focus), you can use it to sneak it past magical security.
Another possibility for adepts are Infusion foci. Sure, you need the metamagic for it, but a gun that gives you a few free dice of Improved Weapon Skill: Pistols/automatics/whatever or even combat sense aren't too bad.
Wow. I would never have thought of any of that.
Now I have a burning urge to build a combat mage who knows no combat spells of any kind, yet still manages to kick 108 different kinds of ass.
Now I have a burning urge to build a combat mage who knows no combat spells of any kind, yet still manages to kick 108 different kinds of ass.
Now I'm curious. How would you do it?
Energy aura would be a given. Its just so badass for melee combat of any sort.
Energy aura would be a given. Its just so badass for melee combat of any sort.
Also, because this is a thread about Gun weapon foci, I should point out that, very technically, a Taser with Wires makes for a -hilarious- foci.
Okay, sure, if its a weapon foci you don't get bonus dice, because it adds to melee attacks, and shooting someone isn't melee.
But....
You never let go of a taser. It doesn't deactivate. Even the dart's still connected to the gun.
This leads to: Defiance EX Taser-foci vs Spirits. Go go gadget electricity damage.
Personally, i've been trying to pitch a Custom Enchantment to a GM: a simple addition to a foci that lets it channel touch spells. As written, if you cast a touch spell, well, you have to touch someone. If you're holding something in your hand, such as a sword foci, it can't carry over the spell. It would be pretty cool to cast Shatter, and then hit someone with a weapon foci, and such an enchantment would let you do that. Its not terribly broken, just lets you use a piece of equipment instead of your hand to do stuff you already know how.
Okay, sure, if its a weapon foci you don't get bonus dice, because it adds to melee attacks, and shooting someone isn't melee.
But....
You never let go of a taser. It doesn't deactivate. Even the dart's still connected to the gun.
This leads to: Defiance EX Taser-foci vs Spirits. Go go gadget electricity damage.
Personally, i've been trying to pitch a Custom Enchantment to a GM: a simple addition to a foci that lets it channel touch spells. As written, if you cast a touch spell, well, you have to touch someone. If you're holding something in your hand, such as a sword foci, it can't carry over the spell. It would be pretty cool to cast Shatter, and then hit someone with a weapon foci, and such an enchantment would let you do that. Its not terribly broken, just lets you use a piece of equipment instead of your hand to do stuff you already know how.
I'm thinking mystic adept. 6 Magic, 3/3 split, starting with Improved Reflexes 1 and Combat Sense 3. After initiating a couple of times (and assuming the optional rule allowing me to gain a power point in lieu of a metamagic), I'd have Improved Reflexes 2, Combat Sense 3, and Improved Ability (Pistols) 2. I'd use a Ruger Super Warhawk as a Detection sustaining focus for Enhance Aim, possibly another Detection sustaining focus for Analyze Device (maybe not if I can reliably get more than two net hits on the spell). Krav Maga and Firefight advantages to maximize close-range shooting ability. With further initiation, I'd pick up Centering, Adept Centering, Item Attunement, and Agility Boost, not necessarily in that order. Am I missing anything?
I'd surgest nimble figures and multitasking realer on. Directly in combat is iffy but I should let you duck in cover and reload and still have a full turn. Nimble figures shortens reload times. Also concider atuenment as a meta-magic at soem point along with adepts centring better taken later though.
Item attunement only works on mundane objects (SM, pg 54). Foci are magic items (SR4a, pg199).
What you do is get an external SmartGun and attune it, and have it attached to the Ruger that is the focus.
What you do is get an external SmartGun and attune it, and have it attached to the Ruger that is the focus.
You may want to move Combat Sense(the power) to Combat Sense(the spell). Save you some power points. Possibly pick up Ambidexterity, and two warhawks. Also if you plan on being a close range gunfighter, a la Firefight, you want the Clubs skill and Melee hardening on your guns, as well as the Adept Counterstrike power, and the Martial Arts maneuver Riposte.
Consider also Herding. With using melee attacks to attack multiple combatants, and spending Edge to take another Action, you can fairly easily set up a small group of opponents into a cone to all be Suppressive Fire'd at once. Sure, you need a machine pistol to do it, but MPs are great, and the automatics skill is -very- flexible.
Consider also Herding. With using melee attacks to attack multiple combatants, and spending Edge to take another Action, you can fairly easily set up a small group of opponents into a cone to all be Suppressive Fire'd at once. Sure, you need a machine pistol to do it, but MPs are great, and the automatics skill is -very- flexible.
QUOTE (Udoshi @ Jul 23 2010, 08:48 PM)
Also, because this is a thread about Gun weapon foci, I should point out that, very technically, a Taser with Wires makes for a -hilarious- foci.
Okay, sure, if its a weapon foci you don't get bonus dice, because it adds to melee attacks, and shooting someone isn't melee.
But....
You never let go of a taser. It doesn't deactivate. Even the dart's still connected to the gun.
This leads to: Defiance EX Taser-foci vs Spirits. Go go gadget electricity damage.
Personally, i've been trying to pitch a Custom Enchantment to a GM: a simple addition to a foci that lets it channel touch spells. As written, if you cast a touch spell, well, you have to touch someone. If you're holding something in your hand, such as a sword foci, it can't carry over the spell. It would be pretty cool to cast Shatter, and then hit someone with a weapon foci, and such an enchantment would let you do that. Its not terribly broken, just lets you use a piece of equipment instead of your hand to do stuff you already know how.
Okay, sure, if its a weapon foci you don't get bonus dice, because it adds to melee attacks, and shooting someone isn't melee.
But....
You never let go of a taser. It doesn't deactivate. Even the dart's still connected to the gun.
This leads to: Defiance EX Taser-foci vs Spirits. Go go gadget electricity damage.
Personally, i've been trying to pitch a Custom Enchantment to a GM: a simple addition to a foci that lets it channel touch spells. As written, if you cast a touch spell, well, you have to touch someone. If you're holding something in your hand, such as a sword foci, it can't carry over the spell. It would be pretty cool to cast Shatter, and then hit someone with a weapon foci, and such an enchantment would let you do that. Its not terribly broken, just lets you use a piece of equipment instead of your hand to do stuff you already know how.
A lot of people around here are of the opinion that tasers hit spirits against half their impact armor because thats what the damage code says. They think that immunity to normal weapons does not make one immune to special weapons with /half armor damage codes, or particularly weapons with an elemental component. There's about 3 threads here in recent history where people fight over this issue. It's a hot-button.
Concerning the custom focus that lets you cast touch spells through an object. I like the idea. If you want to win that argument you could always just go with a spell anchored to the sword that activates a deathtouch spell whenever the sword touches blood.
At the risk of bringing the ITnW discussion into this topic, it really doesn't matter how 'special' a weapon is. What matters is its AP code, because ITnW gives hardened armor. ItNW doesn't change any of the combat mechanics, so any weapon with good AP value, especially those with AP-half are good agaisnt spirits. This includes flamethrowers, gauss rifles, laser weapons, ruger warhawks(-2 base) and almost anything with APDS rounds.
Tasers just get a lot of shit because they get AP-half from the electricity element.
In -this- particular case, a taser-foci doesn't care about ItNW, because ItNW doesn't apply against magical weapons.
That being said, I was planning on combining the two into something unexpected. Say we have a taser focus that can carry touch spells. This leads to the following situation.
Teammate, Wounded: "Medic!"
Mage: *pulls out a taser, shoots the downed compadre, and casts Heal through it from 10 meters away*. "I got it!"
Its one of the only ways I've come up with to get a ranged heal. A spirit of man can do it, but they can't over cast, so they won't save someone in a really bad situation.
Tasers just get a lot of shit because they get AP-half from the electricity element.
In -this- particular case, a taser-foci doesn't care about ItNW, because ItNW doesn't apply against magical weapons.
That being said, I was planning on combining the two into something unexpected. Say we have a taser focus that can carry touch spells. This leads to the following situation.
Teammate, Wounded: "Medic!"
Mage: *pulls out a taser, shoots the downed compadre, and casts Heal through it from 10 meters away*. "I got it!"
Its one of the only ways I've come up with to get a ranged heal. A spirit of man can do it, but they can't over cast, so they won't save someone in a really bad situation.
I think that you succeeded in not bringing up the ITNW topic again by one upping the ridiculousness of it with your second subject matter.
I would like to answer the question originally posed. I have no idea if it's been answered and everyone's moved somewhere else in the discussion, but as a GM with a Gunslinger Adept in the game, I would like to address the question.
Short answer: Yes.
Long answer: Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeees.
Adding range to what a weapon focus can do would be massively unbalancing. My player is already rolling 18 dice per shot, last thing I need to do is add to that.
Short answer: Yes.
Long answer: Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeees.
Adding range to what a weapon focus can do would be massively unbalancing. My player is already rolling 18 dice per shot, last thing I need to do is add to that.
Yep. It's like giving a social adept a focus that adds to social skills - it's adding power to something that is already powerful as is.
18 dice for a pistol adept isn't that huge, though. You can get more dice than that for a mundane character.
The true danger of adding gun foci is that someone will make a vampire adept sniper based on Rip Van Winkle, with a PJSS elephant rifle focus.
18 dice for a pistol adept isn't that huge, though. You can get more dice than that for a mundane character.
The true danger of adding gun foci is that someone will make a vampire adept sniper based on Rip Van Winkle, with a PJSS elephant rifle focus.
QUOTE (Glyph @ Jul 24 2010, 02:54 PM)
18 dice for a pistol adept isn't that huge, though. You can get more dice than that for a mundane character.
18 dice per shot, no edge no nothing. And that's without attribute boost, which he's stated is going to be first on his agenda as soon as he initiates.
Of course, per shot. 
What else?
What else?
Well, Skill of 6, Attribute of 9, and you are at 15 dice.
Smartlink and you are at 17 dice. Adjusted Grip and 18 dice.
Easy as pi.
Also:
Both from Ancient History and his Ancient Files . . The first thing in my favourites on every computer for a good reason ^^
Smartlink and you are at 17 dice. Adjusted Grip and 18 dice.
Easy as pi.
Also:
QUOTE
The Endless Six-Shooter
A modern remake of the classic pre-American Civil War era Navy Colt .36 caliber six-shooter, cast from a genuine iron church bell, with a hilt made from golden boar tusk. Custom-finished with silver and orichalcum arabesque-designs and half-centimeter tall runes.
Aside from being a fine firearm that many a pistol enthusiast would be happy to add to their collection, this weapon is a stacked Anchoring Focus (2) [Enhance Aim]/Specific Spell [Spiritbolt] focus (4). In addition, the focus is a Unique Enchantment with a Force 6 free fire elemental is bound within it by it's True Name. The free spirit possesses the Wealth power, which is used to make an "endless" supply of silver bullets for the gun.
A modern remake of the classic pre-American Civil War era Navy Colt .36 caliber six-shooter, cast from a genuine iron church bell, with a hilt made from golden boar tusk. Custom-finished with silver and orichalcum arabesque-designs and half-centimeter tall runes.
Aside from being a fine firearm that many a pistol enthusiast would be happy to add to their collection, this weapon is a stacked Anchoring Focus (2) [Enhance Aim]/Specific Spell [Spiritbolt] focus (4). In addition, the focus is a Unique Enchantment with a Force 6 free fire elemental is bound within it by it's True Name. The free spirit possesses the Wealth power, which is used to make an "endless" supply of silver bullets for the gun.
QUOTE
The Ace of Winchesters
A sleek, classic Winchester rifle, made of bright steel and dull gems that seem to burn when the light catches them right. There are three notches along the ivor-inlaid stock.
Rumors has it the Ace of Winchesters was made during the abortive second Texas Republic by one of the Rangers, built from metal from the Heavens and gems from the earth and the bones of saints to kill the dark spirit of the Aztlaners. Some even claim the Ranger sold his soul to make the rifle.
The Ace of Winchesters is actually a Force 8 ally spirit, whose summoner gave it the form of a classic Winchester rifle. Seamus O'Grady, the summoner, rents out the ally spirit as a weapon, quietly encouraging the legend he's built up around it. The Ally Spirit is dual-natured at all times while "on assignment."
O'Grady came up with the idea after finding an astral construct of a set of bullet-casting tools in an abandoned mine. He sends spirits searching far and wide across the astral, bringing him other astral constructs made of metal, smelting them into bullets for the Ace of Winchesters with the aid of a fire elemental and the tools.
Renting the Ace of Winchesters costs 10,000 CAS dollars per diem, paid in advance, and comes with three "astral bullets" and a box of ten silver bullets for more ordinary fare. Once the time-or the bullets-are used up, the Ace of Winchesters returns to O'Grady.
A sleek, classic Winchester rifle, made of bright steel and dull gems that seem to burn when the light catches them right. There are three notches along the ivor-inlaid stock.
Rumors has it the Ace of Winchesters was made during the abortive second Texas Republic by one of the Rangers, built from metal from the Heavens and gems from the earth and the bones of saints to kill the dark spirit of the Aztlaners. Some even claim the Ranger sold his soul to make the rifle.
The Ace of Winchesters is actually a Force 8 ally spirit, whose summoner gave it the form of a classic Winchester rifle. Seamus O'Grady, the summoner, rents out the ally spirit as a weapon, quietly encouraging the legend he's built up around it. The Ally Spirit is dual-natured at all times while "on assignment."
O'Grady came up with the idea after finding an astral construct of a set of bullet-casting tools in an abandoned mine. He sends spirits searching far and wide across the astral, bringing him other astral constructs made of metal, smelting them into bullets for the Ace of Winchesters with the aid of a fire elemental and the tools.
Renting the Ace of Winchesters costs 10,000 CAS dollars per diem, paid in advance, and comes with three "astral bullets" and a box of ten silver bullets for more ordinary fare. Once the time-or the bullets-are used up, the Ace of Winchesters returns to O'Grady.
Both from Ancient History and his Ancient Files . . The first thing in my favourites on every computer for a good reason ^^
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Jul 24 2010, 03:39 PM)
Well, Skill of 6, Attribute of 9, and you are at 15 dice.
Smartlink and you are at 17 dice. Adjusted Grip and 18 dice.
Easy as pi.
Smartlink and you are at 17 dice. Adjusted Grip and 18 dice.
Easy as pi.
Race: Elf. Skill 7, Attribute 6, Improved Ability (Pistols): 3, smartlink.
Weird. What are those for?
QUOTE (Abstruse @ Jul 24 2010, 11:48 PM)
Race: Elf. Skill 7, Attribute 6, Improved Ability (Pistols): 3, smartlink.
yeah, but with the route i detailed, EVERYBODY can get to 18 dice . . well, aside from trolls i guess . .
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Jul 24 2010, 11:49 PM)
Weird. What are those for?
what do you mean?
Are they examples of gun foci being balanced?
No, those were to show the real way to magical guns.
A typical dice pool for a pistols-focused mundane would be agility: 5 (9) from muscle toner: 4 (with the restricted gear quality), pistols: 6(7) from reflex recorder, +2 from semi-automatics specialization, and +2 from smartlink, for an overall pool of 20 dice. And that's without being an elf, having exceptional/otherwise improved base Agility, or aptitude. Everything else being equal, an adept can get two more dice to shoot with than a mundane can with improved ability (vs. a reflex recorder), but mundanes can still have pretty decent dice pools.
I remember seeing those guns before. I like them, although I am a bit dubious about the "astral bullets". Still, I would rather have finite (and costly) magic bullets, than a firearm focus that imbues every single bullet with power.
I remember seeing those guns before. I like them, although I am a bit dubious about the "astral bullets". Still, I would rather have finite (and costly) magic bullets, than a firearm focus that imbues every single bullet with power.
Ask Ancient History about how he intended for them to work and see if you still like them ^^
QUOTE (Udoshi @ Jul 23 2010, 07:30 PM)
As written, Guns can be weapon focuses very easily. You can enchant anything, after all. However, weapon focuses only benefit melee attacks, so it only works when gunbashing.
As a side benefit, though, a pair of warhawks as weapon foci 1's let you take a pair of guns into the astral realms. You can't fire them or anything, but, hey, style counts. Ahem.
On the other hand, other types of foci are totally doable, and actually useful. A sustaining focus for Detection spells, for example, is rather useful. Pair it with an Enhance Aim spell, and you've basically made a magical scope. How bout Detect Life/Detect Enemies (just tell your team its Detect Targets). It would have to be high rating or Edged to get past object resistance, but Analyze Device does give you extra dice to shoot people.
Yeah, for a combat mage, a Detection sustaining foci gun is a pretty potent buy.
Additionally, if you have Extended Masking and a foci weapon(not necessarily a weapon focus), you can use it to sneak it past magical security.
Another possibility for adepts are Infusion foci. Sure, you need the metamagic for it, but a gun that gives you a few free dice of Improved Weapon Skill: Pistols/automatics/whatever or even combat sense aren't too bad.
As a side benefit, though, a pair of warhawks as weapon foci 1's let you take a pair of guns into the astral realms. You can't fire them or anything, but, hey, style counts. Ahem.
On the other hand, other types of foci are totally doable, and actually useful. A sustaining focus for Detection spells, for example, is rather useful. Pair it with an Enhance Aim spell, and you've basically made a magical scope. How bout Detect Life/Detect Enemies (just tell your team its Detect Targets). It would have to be high rating or Edged to get past object resistance, but Analyze Device does give you extra dice to shoot people.
Yeah, for a combat mage, a Detection sustaining foci gun is a pretty potent buy.
Additionally, if you have Extended Masking and a foci weapon(not necessarily a weapon focus), you can use it to sneak it past magical security.
Another possibility for adepts are Infusion foci. Sure, you need the metamagic for it, but a gun that gives you a few free dice of Improved Weapon Skill: Pistols/automatics/whatever or even combat sense aren't too bad.
Add to it an enchanted blade attached to the end, like a bayonet.
QUOTE (Udoshi @ Jul 23 2010, 08:48 PM)
Personally, i've been trying to pitch a Custom Enchantment to a GM: a simple addition to a foci that lets it channel touch spells. As written, if you cast a touch spell, well, you have to touch someone. If you're holding something in your hand, such as a sword foci, it can't carry over the spell. It would be pretty cool to cast Shatter, and then hit someone with a weapon foci, and such an enchantment would let you do that. Its not terribly broken, just lets you use a piece of equipment instead of your hand to do stuff you already know how.
Vorpal Sword
QUOTE (MindandPen @ Jul 25 2010, 08:31 AM)
Vorpal Sword
How about a Vorpal .44 Magnum.
I mean, it can blow your head clean off after all.
I dunno. Can the magnum go 'snicker snack'?
QUOTE (Udoshi @ Jul 24 2010, 02:23 AM)
At the risk of bringing the ITnW discussion into this topic, it really doesn't matter how 'special' a weapon is. What matters is its AP code, because ITnW gives hardened armor. ItNW doesn't change any of the combat mechanics, so any weapon with good AP value, especially those with AP-half are good agaisnt spirits. This includes flamethrowers, gauss rifles, laser weapons, ruger warhawks(-2 base) and almost anything with APDS rounds.
Tasers just get a lot of shit because they get AP-half from the electricity element.
In -this- particular case, a taser-foci doesn't care about ItNW, because ItNW doesn't apply against magical weapons.
That being said, I was planning on combining the two into something unexpected. Say we have a taser focus that can carry touch spells. This leads to the following situation.
Teammate, Wounded: "Medic!"
Mage: *pulls out a taser, shoots the downed compadre, and casts Heal through it from 10 meters away*. "I got it!"
Its one of the only ways I've come up with to get a ranged heal. A spirit of man can do it, but they can't over cast, so they won't save someone in a really bad situation.
Tasers just get a lot of shit because they get AP-half from the electricity element.
In -this- particular case, a taser-foci doesn't care about ItNW, because ItNW doesn't apply against magical weapons.
That being said, I was planning on combining the two into something unexpected. Say we have a taser focus that can carry touch spells. This leads to the following situation.
Teammate, Wounded: "Medic!"
Mage: *pulls out a taser, shoots the downed compadre, and casts Heal through it from 10 meters away*. "I got it!"
Its one of the only ways I've come up with to get a ranged heal. A spirit of man can do it, but they can't over cast, so they won't save someone in a really bad situation.
Wait, he uses a taser to cast a heal and says "I got it"
I wouldn't allow it since he clearly should have said. "Clear"
If you are not going to throw in the bad joke, the mage fails.
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Jul 25 2010, 02:47 PM)
I dunno. Can the magnum go 'snicker snack'?
Not only can it do it, it can do it at Supersonic Speed!
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