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crash2029
I am making a pixie character for a twisted GM who thinks it would be cool. I was thinking of having my character have an accident which destroyed his wings in his backstory. I was wondering, since pixie flight is based at least partly on magic, could they still fly?
Machiavelli
Gamewise i would say yes. The ability to fly is magic, but if the wings are needed (even if it is just a mental thing) is not clear. I would also say that a dragon without wings can fly. But for the fluff, i would give him a mental handicap that prevents flying....
Summerstorm
Always such decisions. Well, in my game i would say no. Magic works through signs and rituals (Well it SHOULD anyway) and also... WHY would they have wings if they don't need any? The pixie in my game needs her wings free to fly. So she has got problems with full armour. (So far she has a detachable bulletproof "bag" she can open on her military armour)

Really, ALL decisions you can make to have the pixies have at least a few drawbacks should be taken. (They already are the cheapest race for SUPER-attributes, fly for free at the fastest speed, are hard to hit etc.) So at least we can have them socially not accepted (and memorable) and needing their wings free to move.
Kliko
No they can't, because that would just be silly.
Yerameyahu
Ditto: it's 100% magical flight, but you can't get rid of about the only minor flaw pixies have (inconvenient, gaudy wings). I like the idea of a psychological block on flight, or something like that.
CanRay
*Laughs Evilly As I Pull The Wings Off Of Pixies*
jaellot
In that vein of thinking, would it kill pixies if you were to say "I don't beleive in fairies?". Now that's a weakness.
CanRay
No, they'd likely light a fireball under your groin for saying that to change your mind rather quick.
James McMurray
QUOTE (Kliko @ Apr 5 2011, 08:19 AM) *
No they can't, because that would just be silly.


This.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Kliko @ Apr 5 2011, 06:19 AM) *
No they can't, because that would just be silly.


Quoted for Truth. Anything else is just laughable...
Makki
QUOTE (Machiavelli @ Apr 5 2011, 04:15 AM) *
Gamewise i would say yes. The ability to fly is magic, but if the wings are needed (even if it is just a mental thing) is not clear. I would also say that a dragon without wings can fly. But for the fluff, i would give him a mental handicap that prevents flying....


this would be a nice character actually.
Pixie who can't fly and relies on riding some drone, because their movement rate is only 1/4.
With Mental Handycap (can't fly), Enemy+Vendetta (the guy who ripped off the wings).
Maybe a doberman with a mini rigger cocoon and mage sight fiber optic?
jaellot
Anybody remember the Blood Charm from the Theran Empire book for Earthdawn, entitled Wings of Fire? Or something like that. I remember the text for it specifically mentioning Windlings who lost their wings (and thus their ability to fly) would get such a charm, in an effort to once again fly. Sort of lends credence to the idea of needing the wings, but also might be an interesting plot for a session. Hit some dragon's horde, or the Atlantean Foundation for some such artifact of old...
Fortinbras
Neat NPC idea; a pixie with cyber wings. The resulting Essence loss and trauma of losing what is magical & saguine turns a creature of frivolity and innocence into a dark, more-machine-than-man instrument of torment and destruction.
A toxic, cyber pixie if you will.
Makki
QUOTE (Fortinbras @ Apr 5 2011, 10:22 AM) *
Neat NPC idea; a pixie with cyber wings. The resulting Essence loss and trauma of losing what is magical & saguine turns a creature of frivolity and innocence into a dark, more-machine-than-man instrument of torment and destruction.
A toxic, cyber pixie if you will.


bah, why NPC? I say PC, just leave out the "toxic" and make him run and crave for delta cyber wings.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Makki @ Apr 5 2011, 09:00 AM) *
bah, why NPC? I say PC, just leave out the "toxic" and make him run and crave for delta cyber wings.


Naah, just regrow them using Clonal Wings. Easy Peasy, and no Essence Hit (and thus no magic loss)... smokin.gif

Though the idea of a Toxic Cyber Pixie is entertaining, to say the least... wobble.gif
TheOOB
*muses about pixie clonal wings*
CanRay
I wonder if there'd be a market big enough for wing extensions, for those Pixies that have Wing Envy?

I mean, I'm sure there's AR Spam of it...
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (CanRay @ Apr 5 2011, 01:06 PM) *
I wonder if there'd be a market big enough for wing extensions, for those Pixies that have Wing Envy?

I mean, I'm sure there's AR Spam of it...


Heh... wobble.gif
Rasumichin
QUOTE (Summerstorm @ Apr 5 2011, 11:48 AM) *
Really, ALL decisions you can make to have the pixies have at least a few drawbacks should be taken. (They already are the cheapest race for SUPER-attributes, fly for free at the fastest speed, are hard to hit etc.)


They also tend to start with suicidally low Body attributes, cost 20 BP more if you buy off the Uneducated flaw (and if you don't buy it off, Uneducated is one of the worst flaws in the game as long as you play within the sprawl), can't accept standard cyber- and bioware and will need a personal armorer willing to tailor the 4-6 points of armor the average pixie PC can wear without encumbrance.
At least then you can't just beat them to death with a flyswatter.

I'll admit that pixie mages or infiltration adepts are extremely good at what they do, but that should be expected when you overspecialize to such a degree.
CanRay
The one time I had a Pixie in the game, his CommLink has "Infected" with an E-Ghost named "Metalhead Mike".

The group ended up adopting him.
Yerameyahu
You wouldn't get augmentation, though, you'd be an adept. smile.gif Pixies do indeed have some drawbacks… thank god. Flight without wings in an otherwise humanoid shape would be losing one of their major drawbacks.
Megu
I kind of assumed that the wings were for maneuvering, but thrust was magical. So yeah, you'd still be able to fly, but steering in midflight would be much more difficult.

As far as cyber wings or anything like that goes, I made an NPC from a changeling gang with gigantic butterfly wings. They called her Chicago, for pretty obvious reasons. Anyways, it was quite the fashion statement, so she was the one that did a lot of their negotiating.
Megu
I kind of assumed that the wings were for maneuvering, but thrust was magical. So yeah, you'd still be able to fly, but steering in midflight would be much more difficult.

As far as cyber wings or anything like that goes, I made an NPC from a changeling gang with gigantic butterfly wings. They called her Chicago, for pretty obvious reasons. Anyways, it was quite the fashion statement, so she was the one that did a lot of their negotiating.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Megu @ Apr 5 2011, 06:34 PM) *
I kind of assumed that the wings were for maneuvering, but thrust was magical. So yeah, you'd still be able to fly, but steering in midflight would be much more difficult.


Unfortunately, that is an assumption that is not backed up by anything. wobble.gif
Megu
QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Apr 5 2011, 08:17 PM) *
Unfortunately, that is an assumption that is not backed up by anything. wobble.gif


Not under any illusions about that. I'm just saying, the fact that pixies hover either indicate hummingbirdlike flight, which would take an enormous amount of energy, or there's something else holding em up. Just looking at this from an observational standpoint and working backwards.
Yerameyahu
Magic.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Megu @ Apr 6 2011, 12:33 AM) *
Not under any illusions about that. I'm just saying, the fact that pixies hover either indicate hummingbirdlike flight, which would take an enormous amount of energy, or there's something else holding em up. Just looking at this from an observational standpoint and working backwards.


Hummingbird like flight is okay; so they need a lot of energy, so what. It is a creature that is Inches tall, their metabolism is probably horrendously cranked up compared to a Metahumans. Removing the Wings requirement for flight removes one of the very few limitations on the critter.

Note that any Creature that has flight (with the exception of Oriental Dragons) has wings. This should be treated as a requirement for their flight. Remove the Wings, remove the flight capability. wobble.gif
StealthSigma
QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Apr 6 2011, 09:10 AM) *
Note that any Creature that has flight (with the exception of Oriental Dragons) has wings. This should be treated as a requirement for their flight. Remove the Wings, remove the flight capability. wobble.gif


A better question would be....

Can a pixie fly in an area that prevents magic?
If so, then wings are a requirement of flight.
If not, then wings are not a requirement of flight.
jaellot
QUOTE (StealthSigma @ Apr 6 2011, 10:17 AM) *
A better question would be....

Can a pixie fly in an area that prevents magic?
If so, then wings are a requirement of flight.
If not, then wings are not a requirement of flight.


I take it to mean a lack of ambient mana? Outside the Gaiasphere, or in a fovae (or whatever). Could this also be a way of preventing that silly Vanishing thing? Interesting concept, gives me ideas already...
CanRay
What I would like to know is, where's my flyswatter?
StealthSigma
QUOTE (CanRay @ Apr 6 2011, 11:10 AM) *
What I would like to know is, where's my flyswatter?


Behind your trusty sidearm.... er I mean hockey stick.
BookWyrm
OK, let's get something cleared up...
The average height of a pixie is 45 cm. NOT 4.5 cm. Right? Becauseat 45 cm, that pixie is a good ONE AND A HALF FEET TALL. That's the length of my forearm from elbow to pinkie-fingertip. I don't know about you, but I'm thinking the pixie would just laugh at you if you came at it with a flyswatter. Unless it's ten times the size of THIS.

They have intelligence (a score of 3), which means that, at least where I'm looking, they not only know when they're being attacked, they can strategise on retaliation.

AND, as the entry points out on p. 65 of Runner's Companion, they can be viscious little buggers.

So, go ahead. pick on them. Never mind the Metahuman-Rights groups that will hound your sorry hoop. Never mind the Hackers/Technomancers that will spoof your commlink into broadcasting to every law-enforcement ageny about your carefully concealed stash of [insert illegal contraband here] on every frequency 24/7 (if you're lucky & they're in bed with the flu).
Go ahead. Piss off a magically-active para-sentient.

I hope your GM has a sense of humor.
Yerameyahu
Ha! Well done, very in-character. I could almost believe that you're a nutball parasentient (not metahuman, btw) rights activist. biggrin.gif

StealthSigma, the book already says pixie flight is 100% magical, 0% wings.
CanRay
I think you should see my posts about rolled up newspapers and Wolf Shapechangers and realize this thing called a "Joke". nyahnyah.gif

Rabid Nutball Parasentient Rights Activist. wink.gif
Fortinbras
QUOTE (CanRay @ Apr 6 2011, 10:46 PM) *
I think you should see my posts about rolled up newspapers and Wolf Shapechangers and realize this thing called a "Joke". nyahnyah.gif

Post. Newspaper. Get it? Classic CanRay!
CanRay
Thank you, I'm here all week! Try the veal!
Kyoto Kid
...well if she booked a reservation on an airline, I don't see why a wingless pixie can't fly. Shoot, because of their size, Pixies should be able to get a pretty decent discount.



...and in local affairs.

Following a spate of de-winging incidents in London's North Orbital, an undisclosed number of the wee folk are rumored to have taken to the city's shadows in search of the perpetrator.


...tee hee...
CanRay
QUOTE (Kyoto Kid @ Apr 7 2011, 01:15 AM) *

...and in local affairs.

Following a spate of de-winging incidents in London's North Orbital, an undisclosed number of the wee folk are rumored to have taken to the city's shadows in search of the perpetrator.


...tee hee...

I was nowhere near that area and have a bunch of alibis from people I've paid to say where I was!
Machiavelli
I hear that sooooo often....this makes you even more suspicious....i have an eye on you. cool.gif
The Jopp
I would allow them flight without wings since the ability is 100% magical - they DO have other drawbacks that measure up.

Also, I have no idea how Pixie tribal/social settings work but I can imagine that being either/both wingless and/or mundane would be a social stigma among other Pixies.

For some reason i would also be very careful about insulting someone who can be virtually invisible, a high level mage and be armed with deadly silent weapons.

Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (StealthSigma @ Apr 6 2011, 08:17 AM) *
A better question would be....

Can a pixie fly in an area that prevents magic?
If so, then wings are a requirement of flight.
If not, then wings are not a requirement of flight.


I would say that YES, they could indeed fly in an area that prevents magic. Flight is a Movement Mode, not a magical Ability. A Pixie's Magical abilities are listed as:
QUOTE
Powers: Concealment (Self Only), Enhanced Senses (Astral Perception), Sapience


Further, What happens if a Pixie's Magic Attribute is reduced to 0?
QUOTE
If a sapient critter’s Magic attribute goes to 0, it loses the use of all its powers except Sapience, Natural Weapons, and Armor, if any.


Note: Flight is not a listed Power of the Pixie, but is a Movement mode. Ergo, it does not rely upon Magic to function. Flight functions in and out of an environment that reduces the Pixie to a Magical Attribute of 0. Therefore you need Wings to power said flight. That is why they are there afterall.

QUOTE
I would allow them flight without wings since the ability is 100% magical - they DO have other drawbacks that measure up.


QUOTE (Yerameyahu)
StealthSigma, the book already says pixie flight is 100% magical, 0% wings.

This is not true, as the above quotes from the book indicates.
Machiavelli
According to this argumentation the wings are indeed useful...at least something.^^
Yerameyahu
Facrissake. This isn't hard, Tymeaus. biggrin.gif It's like you people don't trust me when I repeatedly tell you that the book says pixie flight is 100% magic.
QUOTE (RC @ 65)
An inherently magical creature, a pixie’s ability to fly is based entirely on an innate manipulation of mana.
It's obviously a power; the writers just screwed up. That's never ever happened before, right? smile.gif Personally, I'd absolutely make them walk if their Magic was reduced to 0 (permanently); they're lucky to even be alive, at that point. I'd *probably* do the same in a BC, but that's just GM houseruling (AFAIK). Tymeaus, I never expected you to be a 'RAW doesn't say I can't!' supporter.
KarmaInferno
Well, "Flight" isn't a "power" for any creature or spirit.

It's always listed as a movement mode.

I was looking to see how I could give Flight to an Ally spirit, but by strict RAW, I cannot.




-k
Machiavelli
QFT...
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Apr 7 2011, 08:01 AM) *
Facrissake. This isn't hard, Tymeaus. biggrin.gif It's like you people don't trust me when I repeatedly tell you that the book says pixie flight is 100% magic.It's obviously a power; the writers just screwed up. That's never ever happened before, right? smile.gif Personally, I'd absolutely make them walk if their Magic was reduced to 0 (permanently); they're lucky to even be alive, at that point. I'd *probably* do the same in a BC, but that's just GM houseruling (AFAIK). Tymeaus, I never expected you to be a 'RAW doesn't say I can't!' supporter.


I'm Not a proponent of "Raw doesn't say I can't"... Just pointing out that Movement modes are not limited to whether the Pixie has access to his magic or not. Since it is not RELIANT upon the magic to function (No more so than the Pixie actually beiung alive at that point) then the WINGS must have some function. Since EVERY creature that FLIES has wings (except Eastern Dragons, and Spirits, of course), the WINGS must be the mechanism of their FLIGHT. Otherwise, I want my Human Adept to have the ability to fly. I have magic afterall....

It is like all Metavariants and other wierdness. If the magic goes away, they are still there. Just because it took a higher Mana Expression to have them come into being does not mean that they go away when the magic does. Otherwise the easiest way to kill a troll would be to put it in a Mana Void. That does not work.
Machiavelli
Also a good point. "ROUND TWO"...."FIGHT"!!!
KarmaInferno
QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Apr 7 2011, 10:22 AM) *
Since it is not RELIANT upon the magic to function

It has been pointed out and quoted several times that Pixie flight is based on magic manipulation. That's RAW.

Just because it's not a power doesn't mean it's not magic-based.



-k
Yerameyahu
Psh. That logic is just silly, man. Even *without* the clear counterexamples provided for me.
QUOTE
Since EVERY creature that FLIES has wings (except Eastern Dragons, and Spirits, of course), the WINGS must be the mechanism of their FLIGHT.
And I was teasing about the pixie surviving 0 Magic; I just hate the buggers.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (KarmaInferno @ Apr 7 2011, 08:05 AM) *
Well, "Flight" isn't a "power" for any creature or spirit.

It's always listed as a movement mode.

I was looking to see how I could give Flight to an Ally spirit, but by strict RAW, I cannot.


-k


I don't know... If you base your Ally upon a Spirit that already flies, maybe it will retain that ability? Probably not, but it is a thought... wobble.gif
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