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Chance359
I'm starting to get the feeling that Missions writers know they are playing to a captive audience. This is the second job where there is no initial payment offered. As soon as I was told that pay would be negotiated upon extraction of the target, I wanted to call it a night right there.

The team:
Former Doc Wagon medic
Former Doc Wagon Tm/medic
Fomori Street Sam
Gunslinger TM
Gunslinger Adept
Former Lone star detective
Street Sam Archetype

[ Spoiler ]
Brazilian_Shinobi
I understand your point. I had some discussions privately with Mesh. In the end, I liked the adventure, I'll be running it this next monday.
I'll let you know how it ended.
LurkerOutThere
As i was a playing the module with Chance and then got to read it after so i can run it later i thought i'd put in my two bits. On the whole I like this module a lot. My nitpicky stuff is spoilerific so i'll tag it out accordingly.

[ Spoiler ]


Mesh
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Mesh
Mesh
QUOTE (Chance359 @ May 17 2011, 12:36 AM) *
I'm starting to get the feeling that Missions writers know they are playing to a captive audience. This is the second job where there is no initial payment offered. As soon as I was told that pay would be negotiated upon extraction of the target, I wanted to call it a night right there.


There was a Season 3 mission that started you out laes-drugged with no memory and having already accepted a mission. I know that kind of in-ass-deep "in media res" is going to tick some people off. I was going for a quick start for its advantages and rarely seen disadvantages. You have 15 minutes to say no, so you still have a choice. I had no intention of abusing the captive audience dynamic. We all know the GM has this Mission in his hand ready to play, and both parties came to play and have fun. So even if you feel the choice is an illusion, you are not started past the point of choice.

The advantage is that people who want to get some action in can get it right away without delay and without the worry that they'll run over their 4-hour block. There were a lot of potential scenes. Four hours is so short when you're having fun! So GMs can wave their hands, start people with all their gear, put the (initial) run right in front of their faces, and pull the trigger. Blam! Good times.

The disadvantage is the shadowrunners don't get days to track down info or acquire specific gear for the job. Data Searches can yield a lot of info in time, but in only 15 minutes, you probably can't get the big picture. You have to choose what you want to spend your 15 minutes on carefully. Good contacts can be quicker which can be a reward for those who invested in them. Anyway, the runners will have time for more in depth research after the job (probably), but the quick start should leave them paranoid... which is good. smile.gif

I don't have much on the lack of initial pay. I know that can cheese some people off, but pay is not a formula. You don't sit down at the table and make a few grand just for showing up every time. rotate.gif It shouldn't be so strange, even to the mirror shades, that an employer won't pay nuyen.gif .01 for a damaged extractee. However, with the target in your hands, you hold all the bargaining cards... and without having agreed to sell him to anyone in particular for a certain amount, that can be pretty enticing itself.

Mesh
LurkerOutThere
QUOTE (Mesh @ May 17 2011, 04:20 PM) *
[ Spoiler ]


Mesh


Fair point however:
[ Spoiler ]



suoq
[ Spoiler ]
LurkerOutThere
QUOTE (Mesh @ May 17 2011, 04:43 PM) *
I don't have much on the lack of initial pay. I know that can cheese some people off, but pay is not a formula. You don't sit down at the table and make a few grand just for showing up every time. rotate.gif It shouldn't be so strange, even to the mirror shades, that an employer won't pay nuyen.gif .01 for a damaged extractee. However, with the target in your hands, you hold all the bargaining cards... and without having agreed to sell him to anyone in particular for a certain amount, that can be pretty enticing itself.

Mesh


Not every job has to have an upfront pay out, just the ones that require the runners to understake something high risk with a big stipulation (it must be commenced in 15 mins). Further while holding the target in hand and not having agreed to sell to someone makes sense from a run setup scenario it doesn't make much sense to the J scenario. The problem with the mission is it doesn't smell a little like setup it smells a LOT like a setup. Up front pay does help convince runners that the J is serious and at least has some intent on paying them.
Brazilian_Shinobi
@suoq
[ Spoiler ]
suoq
[ Spoiler ]


I had a lot of fun on this mission. I really enjoyed it. But those first 5 minutes were painful. Once the train is moving, either on or off the rails, it's a great ride, but getting on that train was took a lot of handwaving.

[ Spoiler ]


Edits and apologies.

QUOTE (Mesh @ May 17 2011, 05:43 PM) *
So GMs can wave their hands, start people with all their gear, put the (initial) run right in front of their faces, and pull the trigger. Blam! Good times.
I've been approaching Missions with completely the wrong attitude. I need to think of it like a first person shooter or MMORPG where I can carry an infinite amount of gear and swap armor in an instant. My apologies for the things I've written above. I was approaching Missions from the wrong direction.
LurkerOutThere
QUOTE (Brazilian_Shinobi @ May 18 2011, 08:45 AM) *
@suoq
[ Spoiler ]



I'm starting to question the usefullness of spoiler text at this point but:
[ Spoiler ]

Suoq i'm not entirely sure the FPS comment is fair. Do i feel at times missions has pandered a little too heavily to the pink mohawk crowd? Certainly, but there have definitely been times when smart mirrorshades play has saved you guys tons and tons of hassle.
Brazilian_Shinobi
The calling for the run comes from a fixer the party knows. It is understandable that said fixer already did his homework and truly believes the team is capable of doing what Scion wants.

[ Spoiler ]
suoq
My assumption is between missions whichever one of us found that fixer first dumped his body in the barrens.
LurkerOutThere
[ Spoiler ]


I do want to re-iterate, I did have fun with the mod, there was just some wobble to the setup that I think it would be better if it were fixed. If i were to run it outside of the missions environment where things like pay and setup are up to my discretion they'd be easy fixes, but as long as I am running under official auspices I try and keep things as close to the text as I can. I understand the choices made for storyline expedience though.
Sally
Like Suoq said, those first five minutes were touch and go. The entire table was torn between role-playing and meta-gaming. Someone paid for the module. We all took time out of our day to get together. We all wanted to play a mission that night, but every one of our characters would have walked away.

[ Spoiler ]

And that is why Raisa is a TM gun bunny.
Brazilian_Shinobi
QUOTE (suoq @ May 18 2011, 04:02 PM) *
My assumption is between missions whichever one of us found that fixer first dumped his body in the barrens.


Unless half the team died, I see no reason to kill a fixer just because of this. I mean, even if you ended up with less money than you began. You just stop working with that fixer and move on. Even, a runner's haven like Seattle, I would say there is at best, one hundred-ish runners around still running, some dozen fixers and a lot of other former runners that are in still in the network for some reason or another offering support.
Killing a member of the shadow community just because he failed to see the cake was a lie (initially) but that after some legwork you would get your cake is a pretty harsh, isn't it?
Chance359
Well it won't be me going to kill the fixer, I've got McCallister and that would be build points down the drain. Not to mention his protected status as a plot device in future missions.
LurkerOutThere
[ Spoiler ]
Brazilian_Shinobi
QUOTE (Chance359 @ May 18 2011, 04:28 PM) *
Well it won't be me going to kill the fixer, I've got McCallister and that would be build points down the drain. Not to mention his protected status as a plot device in future missions.


McCallister is the fixer with highest loyalty among my players. If he screws up and the runners feel they were screwed by him, I would make McCallister offer some gear with discount or buy them dinner at some fancy restaurant or whatever.
Chance359
No that is an interesting idea, but I don't think the mod would support it. Maybe a raise in McCallister's loyalty?
LurkerOutThere
Generally i feel more free on offering up extra gear and money then i do raising contact loyalty, although i've done both as situation warrants it.
Bull
One thing to always keep in mind...

We trust the GM.

We provide as much of a framework as possible so that the GM doesn't have to "wing it". Many GMs like having a very structured adventure to play off of. It's a big advantage to a scripted adventure vs. running your own adventures.

That said... There is no possible way to plan for every contingency, every player type, every play style. The best we can do is write it up as best we can, tell the story that we, as writers, want to tell, and hope the players have fun. The GMs job is to tailor things to fit his groups play style, power level, abilities, etc. We try to throw in extra hook suggestions to help the GM when situation arise where players can't accomplish a main avenue we assume they will (Finding a piece of data through legwork or hacking, for example, or SRM 04-02's rappelling bit). This is not ebcause we want to railroad players into doing a certain way... It's to help the GM have a quick way to solve what could be a roadblock. In a convention game, where you have less than 4 hours to play the entire adventure, you don;t have time to spend an hour as a group of possibly complete strangers discusses and argues how to access a highly guarded roof. So the GM's job is to give the players a little time to discuss the matter, and then help them along if a solution hasn't presented itself.

It's not perfect, but... Shy of each adventure being several hundred thousand words with each scene including advice of dealing with numerous avenues of pursuit and suggestions for dealing with the nearly innumerable combination of player characters that could be at the table... Instead we just try to tell the story, offer up some broad advice, keep things interesting, and rely on the GM to fill in the gaps once he's at the table.

Also, I apologize for not being around to weigh in more... My day job has completely crushed me for the last couple weeks. I'm pulling 10 and 12 hour shifts, and not sleeping much. So I've been checking in briefly from time to time, but haven't really had the chance to sit down and reply.

Bull
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