I made my Combat Medic mage with synaptic booster 1. I know that if I ever get a chance to play I'll run into background count and have my uber "I'z goes FAST!" doodad break on me. Synaptic Booster doesn't break, is hard to detect, and is Essence friendly.

Not sure that I would want to take my chances with the Force 1 Focus and Edge, way to easy to get rid of.
Mages getting Synaptics is a viable option, as long as they do not mind losing 2 points of Magic in the process, which I see as a havey tradeoff, but doable...

Hard to argue that... which makes the tradeoffs a little more hefty, of course.

Every game we played our Street Sam would start with WR 2 or MBW 2, getting 3 IP's, the stealth guy (me) would have no cyber, only bioware, but I wouldn't spend money on synaptic boosters, so I would end up using kamikaze. The mage would use spells to boost its IP's and the face would use drugs or perhaps would have WR 1.

Only once, a player began with 4 IP's and that was me playing a Jaguar Shapeshifter Adept spending 4 PP in Improved Reflexes 3, 1 PP in Combat Sense 2 and 1 PP in Improved Perception 4. I later got enough karma to increase my Magic to 7 and got Improved Damage 4.

It is interesting to see what other tables do... Thanks for the Information...

Again, the raw BP numbers don't tell the whole tale (even if the mage has it better in that case when you don't count the foci, which their not required to have, it just keeps them from having to take a -2 penalty or sustaining it somehow. A street sam or or adept boosting their IP counts si giving up a signifigant portion of their power points, essence, or karma to do so. A mage doesn't really give up ANYTHING but one spell slot. His magic attribute lets him do other things, his magician quality lets him do other things. You can't count that as part of the cost when that's not all it does. Wired reflexes is five essence the other option as you so astutely point out is 240k nuyen again taking up a signifigant chunk of starting resources for somethign that does one thing only.

The problem with increased reflexes remains it costs nothing the mage isn't already paying for anyway unless you decide to slap it in a sustaining focus. Otherwise unless your running into wards everytime you turn around or rating 3 or higher background count or are getting astrally perceived a lot (and even then so what, they see you have a improved reflexes spell, or you invest int he masking metamgic like you were going to anyway). It's still the cheapest game in town when it coems to IP's. It has some drawbacks but their only drawbacks if the encounter is written specifically to penalize you.

I'll not argue that the mage has other things that he can do, as he is ultimately versatile, where others really are not, but there are drawbacks to that versatility (which have been beat to death in other threads).

The drawbacks for magic are setting based, not GM based. The setting penalizes Mages. All the GM does is enforce those penalties. Is it only a single spell slot? Yes. And yet, I have seen mages that do not start with that particular spell because they have other spells that they want more. I have played a Magician character that did not pick that particular spell up, until after having received almost 150 Karma. Though it does indeed help, it is NOT a requirement to have 3+ Passes to survie the Shadows. You just have to be smarter about it when you only have one or two IP's.

Anyways...

This. Not to mention, any background count will turn a force 1 focus off and dissipate a force 1 spell, so there goes your clever plan.

It's only an option, one of many excellent options the mages have, and can switch between more or less at will. That's the whole point. Even that Health Sustaining focus is good for many other spells, again at-will.

Which is at it should be... Magic is extremely versatile. It is supposed to be.

And, yes, as a runner, you should be running into wards almost everywhere. And/or biofiber, which are almost the same thing. Wards last weeks, and have no cap on max, as long enough astral perceptives are available to work on it. In some cases, Wards are permanent, though that doesn't so much matter for runners, unless they are setting up long term safe houses and don't want anyone breaking into them astrally for any reason.

The thing is wards actually don't do much for a given corp or organization. They keep spirits out until the spirits batter down the wards, how big a boon that is depends on how often your organization has to deal with hostile spirits (and how much interferance their willing to put up with to their own paranormals). For most joints logicly wards arn't really that likely as they don't serve a constructive purpose for the money/time spent to set them up. Biofiber is a bit better in that it can be worked into actual structures and maintained permanently with minimal upkeep but it still boils down to "how much do you care about yoru buildings astral space" unless your doing highly sensitive research of an astral nature you likely don't care. Otherwise you put up wards over your security shack to provide you a few seconds warning before a spirit bashes in, manifests and gasses all your guards and you call it a day.

I think Wards are mainly a warning system; to be aware that some magician is astral-scouting the premises.

Pretty much. Most free/wild/otherwise spirits don't care, and if they see a mana barrier, just go another way. Otherwise, they have ways around it anyway, ways they don't use for Mages unless a service is expended.

Except for the one time you get a warning of an attack there are a lot of times (presumably) that you'll see false positive and if you are worried about astral scouting there are better options then wards.Even preventing astral scouting is of minimal use. Others might differ but I just can't see wards being used all that often as a security measure. Worked in as part of other measures at place your sure you don't care about astral movement but it's a balancing act. A completely mundane corp doesn't care about it's astral space. A corp that does care will employ it's own paranormals and mages but then those mages and paranormals will be inconvenienced by the ward.

I think the opposite though, a mundane corp will want some non-mundane protection. Biofiber walls, wifi inhibiting paint and wallpaper, and perhaps a Ward on the non-wireless enabled nexus/server.

Otherwise, a Spirit can simply manifest in there and break it or steal it. With a Ward you'll have a warning at least that it's been breached. That is, if the company that provided the ward calls you or alerts the corp that handles your security. (Unless of course the Warder sent the Spirit in the first place...)

And that's a deliberate attack, can you imagine if it's just a bunch of awakened punks? A small business may not want it, like a mom and pop store. But certainly a small office of some sort.

I see Wards as fairly common things akin to a chainlink fence.

A spirit that breaks in to steal something out of your building still has to get it out of your building the old fashioned way, the ward really doesn't prevent that. Any spirit capable of being a threat is capable of battering down many wards. Awakened punks arn't a problem, what are they going to do from the astral that they can't do from the physical.

Wards are like a chainlink fence in a elephant enclosure. It might stop the small ones but ones you actually have to be concerned about it's not going to do anything to.

Except, of course, provide a warning that the big ones are there.

Sorry for the nitpick, but i think the word is materialize. Manifest is what watchers and astrally projecting mages do to talk to living beings. In that state they are not physically present, more like a local hallucination.

Btw, can a spirits be ordered to materialize in a location that the wizard can not see?

Maybe if the caster could describe it well enough.

TJ: So what you spend thousands and thousands of nuyen to hire a mage to give you what, 6 seconds of warning, I just don't see it happening especially consideerign the inconvenience it poses to any magical security you have.

As opposed to that ultra high tech security system that only activates after the object it's "protecting" is taken?

I'm sure laser trip wires cost thousands and thousands of nuyen to install for it to be effective, and they don't give much warning time, either.

Without Wards/Biofiber, how would you even be aware if a mage used Astral Projection to scout out your building? Then he's be able to tell his 'runner buddies about the layout, guards and so forth.

It might not stop him, but it warns you that something's going on.

In which case, you re-do the scheduling for the security guards, make replacement times more random for the next week. They are hired for security, I'm sure they'd understand if the director informed them of a security breach.

Magical Security can be included in the Wards such that they are not affected. And 6 Seconds is a LONG time when you have magical Security available. Most small companies will likely budget such expenses for certain areas. ALL MEGACORP Facilities will most definitely Budget such expenses for Certain Areas. The difference is that Small companies will likely have very few places that require such protection, while a Megacorp will likely have MANY such areas. And you make some assumptions here. Why would you charge Thousand upon Thousands to have a Ward Emplaced? A Megacorp pays no such fees, they just ask their on staff Magicians to provide them as part of their services. As for everyone else. The typical Cost to establish a Ward is 100 per hour. Kind of puts a crimp on your Thousands upon Thousands of Nuyen theory, doesn't it? Here is the relevant Quote...

Not 'a ward', but 'enough wards to have full coverage'. It probably adds up a bit. But yes, they're cheap because they suck.

Just for the record:
Adpets have the easiest way known:
Way of the warrior + geasa= 4 IPs for 2 PP. Nice thing to have.
The only better deal would be synaptic booster, but there you have to put down a lot of cash.

The IP enhancement for mages sucks. Sorry.
You run into BC and your great 4 IPs get down to 3. (or your 3 down to 2).
If you can't afford a sustaining foci Force 5 or 6, you may as well drop it. Because Cram is just "safer".
Better one additional IP in the pocket, than 3 in the wind.

Opinions Differ, I guess. I like wards, even little ones at Force 3-4 (Typical Mage Ability) have purpose, and if you are aspecting them as Alarm Wards (See Street Magic) it is highly likely that if you encounter them, it is far too late to do anything about them, since you hvae already come in contact with them.

A more potent "Shadowrunner" level ward can be a serious barrier, if placed startegically.

Psh. Oh no, you go from 4 to 3 sometimes? You're a mage, so you certainly *can* afford a nice focus, until the day you just buy the Synaptics.

TJ, I'd charge significantly more cash for advanced wards.

As you pointed out, the mage can cast higher. However, when the adept runs into a BC, he either needs to give up some of his IP's immediately, or buffer them by taking points out of his other skills.

TJ: For the record TJ I was pulling the thousands number out from somewhere, I'm pretty sure it was more expensive previously. I will also go reread Alarm Wards, maybe i am talking out of my hat. As it stands I still don't see them all that usefull or common for reasons i've mentioned. It's like putting up a security system that only one guy can allow or deny access to and only 1 guy gets an email of if there's a break in.

@longbowrocks
Which is not such a big deal, because you normally have some powers not usable in the current situation.
If you are out to hunt yourself a pack of ghules, you do not need bonus dices to social skills.
(Right, out of chargen it is not that easy, because you only have 5 Points to throw around, but make it magic 7 and it ain't that bad...)


@LurkerOutThere
It is even worse: It will trigger every time some spirit or other magical critter goes through it.

This is true. However, most spirits would see a ward, and go around, unless something they are actively after is on the other side. Dual Natured creatures may be more of a problem, however, especially guard animals.

Even so, my interpretation of the rules (SR4A 194, Mana Barriers) and that it states the creator of a mana barrier may allow others to do so as well, they can create a barrier that allows the paracritters/ awakened guards to pass without getting false positives. THis would cut down on that problem, while opening a solution to savvy mages. (But, like anything else, no security system is perfect)

Choose your geasa wisely then.