As most of you followed my conversations here, you know that i was looking for a natural venom for my new medusa-like char. In the meantime i broke it down to two different poisons of which i think are interesting and the GM has no chance to decline. One is atropine (5K, physical damage, nausea and disorientation, injection-vector, immediate damage) or cyanide (takes 1 round, 8K, injection, no additional stuff). What would you choose?

PS: of course i will try to get the gorgon-venom from running wild or the ekyelebene-venom if i can, but i need something in the backhand.^^

Standard "Cobra Venom" in Running Wild has the same stats as cyanide.

(for all non-German: 5K means 5P damage)

You are right. Sorry, i am mixing languages here. Thank you for the comment, but what would you propose/choose? Heavy damage after one round or immediate lower damage with "add-on´s"?

I would always take the "immediate" damage (= at the end of the turn). 1 round later the bitten combatant is normally already dead.

Cyanide. It tastes better.

Hmmm....if you like marzipan and if you are one out of 3 who is able to sense the smell/taste.^^

I vote Cobra Venom, because it's actually a venom, and actually natural.

Were we talking spitting or biting here?

Biting. I thing spitting would need another "exotic" skill i don´t want to have.^^

Biting with one's hair is pretty Exotic anyway, but yeah.

cyanide! it is easier to buy/make and goes better with more mixed drinks.

He's not buying it, he's *excreting* it. :o Unless you mean that no one would suspect cyanide was from a bite, given it's not a natural venom. That's actually a solid point, if totally metagaming.

Both really, exotic things are easy for Lonestar to trace. I did miss that he would be making it internally, I figured it was something he would need to refill.

Not correct. A lot of plants contain cyanidic acids into their pips. Besides there are insects that use this venom to kill or to defend from predators. I admit that it is rare in the fauna, but quite common in the flora. But definitely not "artifical" but quite natural. I already have a char. that produces cyanide and looked it up beforehand.

Besides Vector and Speed

I didn't mean it wasn't naturally-occurring. I meant what I said: it's not a natural venom, particularly for a snake. If someone tried to bring a character that excretes gold or arsenic (totally natural!), I'd say the same thing. If you were a para-*plant* at my table, I'd probably let you have atropine (or hemlock, or any other plant toxin). But you're a snake-chick. I blame the rules for not making these things clear.

I'd go with the Atropine - while not as lethal, it's faster and it's secondaries can help screw up the opponent.

"Naturally occurring toxin" should probably be read as meaning "naturally occurring as venom in animals", in my opinion.

Which would exclude a LOT of toxins, really, as most are plant or mineral based.



-k

Correct. But in this case we should have some more potent venoms than that of a cobra. 8P is not bad, but as much as i know, the green and black mamba, most of the sea-snakes and the blue-ringed-octopus (and i don´t know how many other animals, too) are much more venomous. But as i see, anything above 8P is paranatural/awakened.

Not really, TTX is fully natural and has 12P - also, it is not used in an awakened critter but in a mutated critter. Note that SURGE is a mutation for PCs.

TTX? Hah, where did i overlook this? Which critter is using it?

The last one in Parazoology, a crab. Pufferfish and the blue-ringed-octopus also use it. TTX is just the short form for Tetrodotoxin.

I know TTX but i didn´t see it in the books. I should buy Parazoology, eh?^^

As far as combat toxin go it's about useless with a time before effect of half an hour. Not sure of how it works when injected rather than ingested.

Even injected since it has to reach the nervous system to take effect it will require probably at leas a few rounds.

Injected TTX works horribly fast. In game terms, they statted it with Immediate (Injection), 1 min (ingestion)

Ingestion is probably way too fast, but ~3s for injection seems right.

Yeah, ingestion is too fast as statted, but I can see immediate for injection.

Anyway, i don´t think that the GM let me create a char. with a 12P venom. I think he didn´t realize how powerful even an 8P-venom is, because i didn´t use it up to now.^^

Is it much more cost-effective than other one-target-per-IP attacks?

Well, you still have to get close enough to use it, and succeed at the attack, penetrate armor etc.

I'd allow it. =)

Depends. Makes a single-shot close combat attack semi-automatic (if you want to say so). Even the lightest damage from the melee attack causes major trouble and you only have body to resist. Nobody i know of has ´ware that helps against venoms and even if he has, it doesn´t help very much.....why didn´t i switch to venom attacks before?^^

I think venoms/toxins in SR4 are dumb. They should work more like the diseases (damage over time) with less initial damage but the ability to kill a person when no antidote etc. is administered. With how they work now the only ones that makes sense is "Atropine" and the "Komodo Venom", all other toxins have just a one time effect and then they are gone and you just heal normally.

Yeah, but we all know that the healing/damage-system in SR is very much simplified. If you e.g. take a shot with 10P, it can heal without medical care within 1-2 days. It has nothing to to with realism, and within these narrow way we can use (named: rules) the game makes fun anyway.

well, with some optional rules you dont heal 10P without medical equipment in a few days (eg. only use BOD and use would penalties on healing tests).

Compared to other attacks? Depends. There's armor, dependence on stats, dependence on gear, etc. It's pretty good for not having those, yes. The SURGE qualities, especially that one, are certainly intended to have major GM oversight; otherwise, they'd just specify a single venom 'option'. Presumably, you're *not* expected to just cherry-pick the strongest thing you can find in the splats.

I thought that too, but you can get ´ware with the same abilities, use venom-darts from a dartpistol even in ranged combat e.g. I think the only problem is, that nobody does it. If you start, you will imagine quite quick how good it is....and then the GM also makes this experience and strikes back with the same stuff.^^

But the 'ware and darts have to be loaded with the toxin, which has to be found and bought. It's different when you're a walking factory for free.

There are certainly concepts, players, and games where a given toxin might make sense, but there are also those where it doesn't, that's all. That's why the GM and the player work it out.

Yeah, i will ask for 12P and he will look at me with this mercyful glance before he says "no". Then i will drop to 8P and if i have a lot of luck, he says yes. Tadaaaa....initial situation. ^^

Hehe, sigh. Cobra, 5P!

I KNOW.....!!!

Boas aren't even venomous. Oh well. The plan is never to use any of this, right? So it's a lot of work for that. What's she *actually* do, face?

No, yesterday evening i completely went nuts and chrushed the whole initial concept. Now she is a real combat mage with a buckload of sustaining foci, Ares Alpha Combatgun, Armor etc. I took the petrify-spell for ranged and the gorgon venom for close combat...i really hope my fanfic that i wrote helps me that the GM accepts the venom.^^

Oh lord.

It is way more crazy than it looks like.^^

The natural venom works like a chemical gland -> produces 1 dose per 24h, can store 4 doses.

I personally wouldn't be too phased by someone who can spit or bite with venom that kills in a round or so. It's pretty comparable to clearing a room with a few passes with an assault rifle or stunball. I kinda like it actually, I think part of cyberpunk should be the many people with really weird attacks.

Especially if said character can use this attack only 4 times and then once per 24h - of course he can milk himself in the downtime and fill a "Parashield dart pistol/rifle" with TTX-loaded injection darts.

Does the quality include a reistance to your own toxin ? If not (and as far as I remember it doesn't) it might be a good idea to put some points in a skill or specialisation to do it.

I think so. I hope so.

Yes, it makes you completely immune to it.

Was it then the container for cyberweapons that could store liquids e.g. to coat implanted spurs that didn´t made you immune? I think i can remember something like that.