http://www.news.com.au/world-news/asia/gli...8-1226609165555
NK declares War.

Things are heating up over there . .

Ooookay. What the heck.

Quite interesting isn't it?

That is totes adorbs.

I wonder whether they're trying to get invaded so they can be rebuilt with foreign money.

Don't be an ass. Nothing about this situation is "cute" or funny. Many, many people could be dead very soon.

This comment ranks up there with all bs tough-guy speak. "Bring 'em on".

Here's hoping -- very hard -- that it's nothing but their usual saber-rattling. Kiddo's got big shoes to fill, and coming down as a hardass might just help him to fill 'em.

The White House couldn't have found a better person to speak on the news about this? The guy looked absolutely confused about the situation, and did a lot of gaffs ("Um, uh, er" and so on.).

That said, I'm really hoping this is North Korea seeing the US overextended in the Middle East and not wanting a third war, so is trying to get what they want by sabre rattling. Because if it isn't...

Well, the First Korean War wasn't a very nice thing at all... A second? Well, that one might only be over in minutes, but the repercussions would be felt for centuries.

let us hope it does not come to that.

Somehow, I can't see even North Korea, and the inexperienced Kim Jong Un, being stupid enough to start an actual nuclear war. They've GOT to know what the American response to being subjected to a nuclear attack would be: reduce the perpetrator's entire nation to a single unbroken sheet of glow-in-the-dark glass. Seriously, that sort of imbecilic move would prompt a demonstration of "this is what MAD really means".

Which, don't get me wrong, is a scary thing, and I hope it never comes to pass.

I just don't think NK is quite stupid enough to go there.

...

And I really, really hope I'm right about that.

on the other hand, the US CAN'T retaliate like that . .
south of them there's south korea, who is innocent . .
north of north korea, there is china, who is china . . .
and russia ain't far from there either.
in this match, the US is a big frigging target with NO such thing as collateral damage over thousands of miles.
while even a single nuke thrown into NK is going to affect at least 2 other states on their borders.

in this case, the size discrepancy plays against the big guys . .

really bleak sense of humor:
apple probably would not mind if samsung suffered from some of this . .

There's TacNukes. They don't have to Glass the WHOLE country, just certain parts of it to get a point across.

That depends on whether or not NK's missiles work - if they could get a nuclear weapon to a major U.S. city on the West Coast?

Wall to wall glass.

Not even the Chinese would offer more than a token protest/condemnation, if NK did something like that.

Guys, it's as if somebody were to aim nukes at canada or mexiko.
hell, even if they were aimed at cuba the us would not accept nukes going up in their neighbourhood.
it's the same over there. if NK fires it's shit and the US fires their shit, then china will fire their shit and russia probably too.
NK ain't the problem in this, it's the circumstances around NK that make this very problematic and a possible detonator for the war that created the Fallout World.

the best bet for this would be the missles get shot down between japan and the us and then the us and china go in with troops and each takes half of NK.
if the missles go over japan that is.
if they actually do go up over the north pole, as would be correct, not as has been shown in the maps of the NK attack plans on the US, then CanRay here will be closer to the line of fire than california will be.

Their pilots are that crazy. They charge at the DMZ at night at treetop level with no radar on those POS jets they have.

Oh, right i just remembered a little something . .
The US won't like another Korean Land-War i guess . .

Since this is a gaming forum, someone has to ask...

...will this lead to the re-vitalization of Twilight 2000 as a popular and deadly realistic role playing game??

Will CryTek South Korea get Hands On Experience for their Warface game?

Maybe we'll end up with a more mature or realistic portrayal of war in games...?

So, the Homefront Video Game is looking more and more possible, huh?

Leaving the nuclear question aside for the moment... The biggest strategic problem, I think, will be keeping China out of the fight. They're pretty damned tired of North Korea's belligerence and unpredictability, and they want very much to be seen as a stable, reliable actor on the world stage; so if we play our cards right at the diplomatic table, I think we have a real shot at persuading the Dragon that this isn't really his fight.

Having accomplished that, a conventional donnybrook on the Korean peninsula will require us to pull out of the Middle East considerably ahead of schedule, but a real shooting war takes precedence over nation-building any day. We can almost certainly count on the Aussies and Kiwis as allies; North Korea's in their neighborhood, and they can't be any happier about that than we are. Canada will join us, because if the North Koreans can reach us, they can damn sure reach Canada. Once three Commonwealth nations are involved, the UK will want a piece, and maybe India. The other European members of NATO are iffier, IMO; the overall economic situation in Europe makes force projection difficult, and some members (yes, I'm looking at you, France) have been reluctant to aid us recently.

My overall prognosis: a conventional war with North Korea is winnable, but it'll be expensive as hell, in both money and lives.

... Japan would have another Constitutional Crisis, because they'd want in on things, too. ESPECIALLY with it happening literally on their front doorstep ...

Considering the fact that the Korean War has never ended, and our equipment and soldiers are suitably restored from being overextended in time during Afghanistan, I think saying "Canada will join us" is more a matter of "Will the US show up in time for the war this time or not."

World War III: Who can kick North Korea's ass the fastest?

Had a discussion about this tonight with some friends. Many seem to think that China will still back NK, even though it's very apparent that they're tired of NK's shit. More of a "saving face" kind of thing, since China has been backing NK for so long (~50 yrs?), plus not wanting to seem like they're willing to bow to US wishes in this matter.

That country tries really hard to live up to the Bond Villain image it has.

They may be right, but I think it fairly likely that China's "support" for North Korea will take the form of military maneuvers on the border and/or in the Yellow Sea. I really don't think the Chinese are willing to go to war for Kim Jong-Un.

Many people will be dead very soon. According to the CIA Factbook, there will be over 8 deaths per 1,000 people this year. If war breaks out, then the situation becomes serious. When North Korea claims to be on war footing against the United States (and by extension NATO), that's cute. To me, at least.


If you think so. I defer to Rep. Peter King, former chair of the House Homeland Security Committee, who said that he does not fear the North launching a successful attack on the U.S. mainland, but is concerned North Korean leader Kim Jong Un "is trying to establish himself ... trying to be the tough guy." We'll have to disagree, but thank you for the discussion.

After how America failed with other countries, not likely.

Yeah, I agree, although after seeing what we did with Japan and then South Korea, I can see them giving it a shot.

Yes, people die all the time, but to claim that makes it ok to trivialize the potential for massive loss of life is pretty bad.


Whether you believe NK will strike or not is a wholly different subject than calling the situation "totes adorbs" and cute. How old are you?

You had little to do with the rebuilding of South Korea, Koreans did that themselves, by and large. Japan was nearly 70 years ago, and an industrialised country before you nuked it, despite not being majorily white (writing that because you strike me as the kind of person that needs this reminder), so it had a good position to rebuild itself even after total devastation. South Korea built themselves from nothing, against a junta supported by America, after America finished what the Japanese had left standing. that's quite the achivement, but no thanks to America.

Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia, Libya ... America's track record really sucks. I cannot see where your idea came from, save from an interesting world view.


He's in his 30s, male, and American. He's also a CGL writer.

Speaking as a thirtysomething American male, if Aaron is the kind of guy who posts on the official SR4 forums, I'm quite happy staying here at Dumpshock.

He's not even the worst of the lot.

I think you're right. China has a real conundrum: They lose face by backing such an obvious lunatic, they also lose face if they're seen to cave to Western wishes or ideology. While China isn't ready to 100% throw NK under the bus, they're not willing to continue backing such a difficult position either. They're losing face hourly with every new crazy proclamation coming out of NK. I personally think they're going to do some major behind-the-scenes negotiating with the rest of the world to try to slowly extricate themselves from associations with NK. Then at some point they can point and say "those guys? no, we've never supported them."

Oh, the diplomatic cables are flying thick and fast, believe me. You're absolutely right that North Korea is an albatross around China's neck, and I'd bet good money that Chinese diplomats are talking to both the US and North Korean governments. Their conversations with the Americans probably have to do with limiting the scope of any conflict, with a secondary goal of blunting or deflecting US displeasure; and the Chinese messages to North Korea are most likely along the lines of "Shut up and sit down, you idiot child." In diplospeak, of course.

Really, whether or not armed conflict boils up on the Korean Peninsula again is going to come down to how much influence the Chinese still have over North Korea. If China can tell young master Kim to quit being such an asinine little psycho, and make it stick, this might just blow over. If not... well.

This is spiralling out of control fast. It's kind of similar to the situation in the Mideast, but more volatile because everybody is even less used to talking to each other, and even more hysterical.

North Korea appears to feel genuinely threatened by now. I think they really do, and from their perspective it's not even implausible; America attacking countries without good reason happened recently, so it could happen again, for all they know. Add to that an inexperienced dictator who has to prove himself to his all-powerful military, and time running out on the usefulness of North Korea's army, and it's a bloody mess. China has to try to keep North Korea calm, convince America (and South Korea) forced regime change is not in their interest, and look good doing so. That'd be hard on every country - America's got a similar role with respect to Israel and Iran. It is even harder if the nation in question (rather, it's diplomatic corps) is not really used to this kind of diplomacy and the parties involved are not able to communicate (or, in Korth Korea's case, purposely isolate themselves).

Stahlseele, why did you start this thread in the first place?

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