Right, but an appropriately powered starting technomancer and an appropriately powered starting magician should be similarly powerful in their areas. If Complex Forms aren't as powerful as spells, then for that to be the case there must be some compensatory factor for the lower number of forms. If Complex Forms are more powerful than spells, on the other hand, they should cost more karma. If this is set as is based upon the diminishing returns curve of the continuing selection of Forms, then the whole thing will become completely screwed when the Matrix splat comes out.

Any of the possibilities I have been able to formulate have serious problems.

You mean the difference is even larger? (That's meant to be a joke.)

It looks like magicians get frontloaded at chargen, but it's a steeper and farther climb, especially Karma-wise.

quick question:

How did the Shapechange spell change?
It was very controversial in SR4, due to massive possible attribute boost and on the other hand, being naked...

So, are attributes and skill groups going to cost the same as in 4th edition? Contacts?

My guess still is spells are much more specific in function so you need more to hit a baseline fucntionality. Compelx forms are alot broader so 5 covers all the bases. But once the bases are covered the value of getting a new complex form is less than the value of added fucntionality of a new spell for a mage. So basically the A slot gets the mage/technomancer to the point where they can cover the bases. The karma cost reflects the value of a new spell/complex form once your bases are covered.

Yes to the attributes/skill groups which just sucks hard IMO. I have no idea on the contacts, though I think they went with the chrx3 common houserule for starting contacts, though what it cost to pick up more iwth karma I don't know.

How much Karma does the 'Exceptional Attribute' quality, or the 'Skilled' quality cost for the starting character to purchase?

-Wired_SR_AEGIS

From Preview 3: "Exceptional Attribute [Strength]: (Cost: 14 Karma)"

Contacts cost 1 karma for each point of loyalty or connection. So 1 loyalty 1 connection contact only costs 2 karma.

When spending Edge in combat to use 'Blitz', it says to roll the maximum of 5 initiative dice for a single Combat Turn.

Should that be read as:

1) Roll the maximum of 5 initiative dice. The Maximum roll with 5 initiative dice is 30. Therefore, when using Blitz, count yourself as having rolled '30'. Add 30 to your initiative score, to determine your initiative standing in the combat turn.

OR

2) Roll 5 initiative dice (which happens to be the maximum number of dice that may be rolled for initiative). Add the results of those five dice to your initiative score, to determine your initiative standing in the combat turn.

I feel like it should be Option 2, but as written it can be interpreted literally as option 1.

-Wired_SR_AEGIS

I agree it could be confusing. I think this is a potential post for the Eratta Thread.

It has to be #2. If it was #1, the verb would not be "roll", because you would not be rolling anything.

It is Option 2.

Just remember, the SR5 Rulebook now has it's own damage code for a reason.

Danke.

-Wired_SR_AEGIS

I have a question about matrix rules:

-Do defensive dice pool benefit from the Hot Sim's +2 dice bonus to matrix actions? Do you get +2 to resist Hack on the Fly/Brute Force, for instance?
-Whose attribute do I add to a Host's defensive pool? And if the answer is "the spider's/demiGOD/similar stuff", why wouldn't a very secure Host's owner not just use the Host's natural defenses, which, for very secure hosts, can add 11-12 dice that a spider's willpower/logic/intuition probably can't match? (A device left on its own replaces the mental attribute by its rating, I assumed it was the same for Hosts?)

Good questions!

1. Nope. The defensive rolls aren't Matrix actions.

2. If the host itself is the target, then you'd use the host's own attribute, which is to say its Rating, since that's what passes for a Mental attribute for hosts. You have hit upon the reason that only the elite hacker can run--or survive--highly rated hosts.

So, another question: is using a commlink as the center of a PAN for "wireless bonuses", but not actually browsing/doing something on the matrix outside of that enough to require a persona, instead of just a 'device icon'? And in the cases where someone's mental attributes are lower than the rating of the device he's using, is there a way to use "factory settings" and forfeit the use of those mental attributes in favor of the device's rating?

Oh, also: do you need a cyberdeck to run a legal (firewall/data-processing) program? Can a commlink or a Host run those? A combination of description and availability/costs makes me think that legal programs run on regular devices, but there's no rule for that.

If you can convince your GM, sure. The attribute part of that dice pool represents how good you are at configuring your firewall, sticking with good browsing habits, etc. So if you use your commlink at all, say setting it up as the master of your PAN, then the answer is probably not. If you're looking to squeeze some extra dice into you defense dice pools, you could have a character with higher Mental attributes be the owner of your gear, but make sure you trust 'em.


There is no provision for commlinks or hosts to run cyberprograms in the core rule book. The key word here is cyberprograms. The commlink is already running software: the operating system, the programs that make up the DP and Firewall attributes, the ones that handle the network stack, memory managers, etc. We use the term "program" because it's short for "cyberprogram," like we use the term "runner" instead of "shadowrunner." A cyberprogram is different from regular software in that it's far more complex and much larger.

On a side note, I strongly doubt that hosts will ever have the ability to run cyberprograms, although there may someday be a host building system that offers program-like options. Hosts are quite different from devices like cyberdecks and RCC's.

My point was that if you know that the default settings of your newly stolen rating-6 commlink or device is smarter that you are, then you set the thing to use factory settings every time you're not browsing.
I think I will houserule it this way actually: when not actively 'browsing' (as in, doing stuff requiring a persona) then the stat used is the highest between the relevant mental attribute or rating.


Okay; it could have gone either way for an 80 nuyen piece of software with no availability rating, so I had to ask the question. I hope there will be options to put cyberprograms on specialized non-cyberdeck devices in the future, because I could see whoever is building that multi-billion nuyen prototype put a couple more TB of ram to run 'encryption' and add +1 firewall, just to be sure.

Sure, that's possible. Although factory settings probably don't include master/slave configuration for your PAN.


I reckon that the rating on the multi-billion nuyen prototype probably already includes the extra encryption software. But yeah, I agree with you: I can totally see device customization as pretty low-hanging fruit for a future source book.

That and commlink programs - being able to improve the Data Processing and Firewall actions of a commlink seems like a good area to work with.

Sure, but don't forget: This is Fifth Edition. You can never completely mitigate the risks. Not without some cost, anyway. =i)

Sure. But add in programs like, say, Bio-Reading Analysis to bring the wireless bonuses seen on Tasers and such to PAN connections, a new version of some of the the various Sensor Software, and limitations upon how many programs you can have loaded, and, well...

I have another question. When cyberware has a 'rating' value (because it has several levels of improvements), does its Matrix device depend on that rating or on its grade?

For instance, what's the Matrix device rating of a deltaware skillwires 2? 5, because of the 'deltaware', or 2, because of the rating?

How does distance modify ranged combat? Does it reduce the 'Accuracy' of the gun, lowering the limit of possible successes? Or does it subtract dice from the roll being made?

-Wired_SR_AEGIS

1. How did the Shapechange spell change?
It was very controversial in SR4, due to massive possible attribute boost and on the other hand, being naked...

2. How are Movement Speeds calculated? Did it change from SR4?

I don't have the book, but I thought I saw a thread where it showed that the rating of the device was based on the grade of the ware. I thought Delta was a 5.
And since you are paying for "Delta" grade I would think you would have "Delta" grade security no matter what the rating was.

There's a Device Ratings table on page 234 of the book (Matrix section).
DR 1 = Simple devices; general appliances
DR2 = Average devices; basic cyberware
DR3 = Smart devices; alphaware
DR4 = Advance devices; betaware
DR5 = Cutting Edge devices; deltaware
DR6 = Bleeding Edge device; billion-nuyn experiment devices

How does Enchanting work now? With the recent split of magic into the Spellcasting, Summoning, and Alchemy "schools", I've become quite excited about the possibility of playing a specialized alchemist/enchanter, because that sort of thing was always kind of lackluster in SR4.

I've also heard that Quickened and Anchored spells have changed. Any details on those? I've always liked the idea of having a sort of trump card in the form of a gun that fires expensive/hard-to-get (but powerful) enchanted bullets.

Oh, and a somewhat odd question - is it possible to have an Aspected Mystic Adept? The adept side of your magic works as normal, but the mage side is Aspected to a single one of the three magical "schools". The Preview character creation materials completely ignore this concept.

~Umi

That is true, BUT for anything but cyberware this is how it works. There are two condradictory rules here, one that says that the device rating for matrix AND for other effects are the same, and this table.

That is true, BUT for anything but cyberware this is how it works. There are two condradictory rules here, one that says that the device rating for matrix AND for other effects are the same, and this table.

Device Rating and Item Rating are two separate things. Unless a piece of gear specifically lists a "Device Rating" (and not just "Rating"), use the chart on p. 234 to determine it's innate DR.

Bull

Does SR5's Prioritygen include free Knowledge Skill ranks equal to 3(Log + Int)?

(Int+Logic)*2

So SR5 pulls back on the Free Knowledge Skills as well. *sigh*

1. The spell isn't in the table of contents so they fixed it by taking it out it appears.

Maybe they're saving it for when they can rework it and put it in a splat book.

~Umi

I heard the revised Shapechange spell will require wifi on to be able to download the necessary bio info on the animal you want to change into.

Well i assume it will come out eventually, but it seems to be cut at launch.

Nah, you're confusing that with the new 'astral bonuses' that require you to be astrally active (and vulnerable to astral attack) to get the full benefit of spells and foci. Apparently it's to make astral projection more useful in campaigns.

Not a bad Idea.

Yeah, they also made it so that astrally active foes can roll their Spellcasting dice to perform a new action called "Obliterating".

You can Obliterate a target's learned spells, damaging them and ultimately rendering them unuseable. Victims may try to fix them later, but this requires a couple hours meditation and a successful Arcana roll. This allows Magicians to remain effective in astral combat without forcing them to actually have any Astral Combat skill, or conversely any investment in astrally damaging weapon foci.

~Umi

But what about Adepts? This totally gimps them! Man, I'd be better off making a Street Sam... AS USUAL!! Thanks alot, SamRun!

Edit: oops, forgot the obligatory "I guess I get to sit this edition out!!" threat. Where IS my head tonight?

You are of course referring to the new WizFi bonuses

In all seriousness though, I'm really curious about the possibility of Aspected Adepts.

People with books? People who helped right the books? Anyone?

~Umi

Aspected Adepts? How so?

I mean, there's nothing in the book about them, that I can think of, but I'm also not sure exactly what you mean so I might be lying on accident.

Aspected Mystic Adepts, rather. My bad.

I mentioned the idea toward the top of the page. Your Adept half would be normal, but your Magician half would be Aspected to one of the three different "schools" of magic. I'm rather drawn to the idea of a gunslinger adept who uses alchemy and enchanting to create magic-infused bullets, that sort of thing.

~Umi

Sorry, been checking stuff from my phone as often as not lately, and full convo's are hard to follow.

No big.

But seriously, though, is Aspected Mystic Adepts a thing that you can do?

~Umi

You can build a dude that works like that, sure, but it's not a specific priority option, no. Might be able to juggle cool stuff (Qualities and junk) once the magic splatbook hits, though, to fit the theme more soundly.