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PiXeL01
When I started with SR the second edition had just been released and FASA was a strong company who produced wonderful universes such as SR and battletech which I loved above all else. Then in the middle of SR3 they died.

Now it looks as if they are back in business.
Would you like them to return to the Shadowrun universe or are you happy with how things are now?
Tanegar
Can't vote. There is no, "They can't be more careless than Catalyst" option.
PiXeL01
Neutral answer added.
Please excuse my carelessness.
Stahlseele
I... I don't know how to react to this...
Tanegar
I wouldn't say that it doesn't matter. Overall, I'd be happy to see FASA reclaim the reins of Shadowrun; but I wouldn't necessarily expect it to be unmitigated awesome, either. Like I said, they'd have to work pretty hard to be worse than Catalyst, but they'd have to work pretty hard to be better, too. Catalyst's custodianship of the license, IMO, has been characterized above all by mediocrity.
IridiosDZ
I'm voting Yes. But I think I agree with the view that they would have to do some work. Mostly to bring it back. They really need to be careful to not over reach and fail.
Ryu
What´s the difference between the (current) FASA and Redbrick editions of Earthdawn? I know at least one person here will know.
Wounded Ronin
I don't think it will happen but hope that FASA makes 6th edition: The 80s Edition.
Blade
@Wounded Ronin: I actually think that Shadowrun needs to be split into three universes: Shadowrun 2035 (for those who want to play "contemporary technothriller with magic and ware"), Shadowrun 2050 (for those who want to play "80s cyberpunk") and Shadowrun 2070 (for those who prefer post-cyberpunk / early transhumanism).

They could share the same base rules, but each would have its own quirks so that both rules and settings could completely fit the expectations, and so that writers could write the Shadowrun they like. It would be better than having each writer trying to pull Shadowrun towards what he wants the game to be, and ending up with a weird mix that doesn't completely please anyone.
Bigity
QUOTE (Ryu @ Oct 21 2013, 11:54 AM) *
What´s the difference between the (current) FASA and Redbrick editions of Earthdawn? I know at least one person here will know.


Honestly, not that much. Some of the steps are different die combinations to smooth out probability flow, and some mechanics have been changed to use the same systems as other things. Kind of like SR4 magicians.

Some skills changes, little stuff like that. The heart of the game is the same.

Honestly, I hope they do well, especially with ED, but the revised stuff is really 3rd edition wth errata. I don't know they can survive by putting out old material with slight tweaks - and I haven't seen a printed book yet, but I know the revised PDFs are built with tablet form factor specs - I'd hate to have a printed RPG book the size of a tablet.
Grinder
ED3R (R for Revised) lacks the stunning artwork and layout of ED3 - James/ nuFASA removed it to not pay Kathy Schad royaties any longer. James changed several minor things in the mechanics - exactly the things we didn't change or implemented when we designed ED3.

Grinder
As for FASA doing Shadowrun: keep in mind that the current FASA doesn't have much to do with the team who created Shadowrun and Earthdawn; it's mostly James Sutton and a few writers who so far don't have done much. Their ED3R version is crappy and ugly, their Earthfell-idea horrible, and their 1879-setting is still in the works (and doesn't seem to very interesting).
Remnar
QUOTE (Blade @ Oct 21 2013, 11:43 PM) *
@Wounded Ronin: I actually think that Shadowrun needs to be split into three universes: Shadowrun 2035 (for those who want to play "contemporary technothriller with magic and ware"), Shadowrun 2050 (for those who want to play "80s cyberpunk") and Shadowrun 2070 (for those who prefer post-cyberpunk / early transhumanism).

They could share the same base rules, but each would have its own quirks so that both rules and settings could completely fit the expectations, and so that writers could write the Shadowrun they like. It would be better than having each writer trying to pull Shadowrun towards what he wants the game to be, and ending up with a weird mix that doesn't completely please anyone.


That would be ideal for me. I'd have loved SR5 to be basic enough rules to support that. Kinda like Battletech where you can use the same basic rules to play in any era, and then releasing suppliments to actually support all the eras. I find that I have very little inclination to buy any of the new products after checking out the main rulebook, but I'd probably still buy something that took place in 2040-2060 as a small adventure or splat book. As it is I'm still buying occasional 2nd and 3rd ED books that I never had, or want to replace. So at least there's that.
Ryu
QUOTE (Grinder @ Oct 30 2013, 06:42 PM) *
ED3R (R for Revised) lacks the stunning artwork and layout of ED3 - James/ nuFASA removed it to not pay Kathy Schad royaties any longer. James changed several minor things in the mechanics - exactly the things we didn't change or implemented when we designed ED3.

So I´ll keep mixing the Stunning Artwork version with 1st Edition. Thanks!
Grinder
You're welcome. smile.gif
binarywraith
I'd love to see the SR rights out of Catalyst's hands, frankly. They clearly don't give a devil rat's ass about producing a quality product. But giving it back to FASA only really works if they get the folks who worked on SR back in the day again, or find replacements with enough love for the game to do the work right.

As opposed to half-assing every release and not bothering to edit a damn thing.
Stahlseele
i still say ther rights should go to the germans of Pegasus Spiele as the main holder.
FASA, i am not sure about, but if they can manage to get people like Ancient History and maybe Frank Trollman back on board, then yes, i would like them to have the rights.
Grinder
nuFASA is basically James and Dawn Sutton plus Andrew Ragland, Jeff Laubenstein, and Mark Stout. Don't get too excited, the Suttons as leading managers don't geht shit done. No hope for Shadowrun here.
Adam
Frankly, Catalyst has more in common with FASA Corporation than this new FASA Games has in common with FASA Corporation.
CanRay
Also, CGL has Bull! biggrin.gif
Bigity
The new FASA Games, Inc has announced a 4th edition of ED today.

Also I think they are working on Earthfell, which has been described to me (by people other than FASA Games) as the Sixth World of ED - a few hundred years later.
Stahlseele
erm . . isn't shadowrun supposed to be the 6th world of earth dawn?
and why only some hundred years later if the previous ages were thousands of years apart?
Bigity
Well, so they aren't doing a game in modern times/near future but something a little later? - Don't know much about it yet, can't find an announcement of it, just forum talk.

And it was ED -> 5th -> SR, but only before the lines were separated smile.gif
Stahlseele
No, ED was 4th, then came our time without magic as the 5th and then came Shadowrun as the 6th o.O
And if the ages are shortened by that much, it can't be in the single digit numbers anymore anyway . . .
Bigity
Isn't that what I just said? smile.gif

But yea, the ages are thousands of years - at least in my understanding. ED was at the start of the 4th, but the mana levels stopped dropping.

Which makes me wonder how it would the 4th age, if 5th was the downcycle. Maybe ED is more properly at the end of the 4th.
DMiller
Meh, I never really liked the idea of ED and SR being cross-over worlds anyway. I could see the similarities, but looking at my ED book, the ED world is about 10 times larger than the Earth anyway (maybe more).
nezumi
That's because the FASA universe follows the expanding earth hypothesis (except in reverse).
Sengir
QUOTE (Bigity @ Dec 14 2013, 07:17 PM) *
ED was at the start of the 4th, but the mana levels stopped dropping.

Which makes me wonder how it would the 4th age, if 5th was the downcycle. Maybe ED is more properly at the end of the 4th.

ED is set in the latter half of the 4th World. Think of mana levels as a sine wave, every zero crossing is the threshold between two ages, and every maximum means Horror time.

AFAIK Earthfall (Earthfell?) is to be set at roughly the same point in the 6th World, in other words far away from anything SR
Sendaz
QUOTE (nezumi @ Dec 16 2013, 09:23 AM) *
That's because the FASA universe follows the expanding earth hypothesis (except in reverse).

Tell me the truth now, does this equator make me look fat? nyahnyah.gif
Always Overkill
Wow, I almost forgot about Battletech, and its companion RPG MechWarrior.

Its a tough question, I loved FASA back in its heyday; they produced some amazing settings that led to some truly unique RP opportunities. I am really unsure as to what exactly brought FASA down. I know there have been publishing
companies that near bankrupted themselves during the development of just the core books of some new RPGs. Maybe FASA overextended itself trying to get 3rd ed out to the wider gaming world. I would like to see them back with a hand in
the new SR, but I'm not sure if it would be doing much better than Catalyst.

Honestly, I think Catalyst should have taken the opportunity to design a more user-friendly system for SR. Having played a host of different tabletop RPGs over the past 18 years, there are few systems that have as high a level difficulty for new
players to learn. (With the exception of the GURPS.)

Don't get me wrong, I have a strong love of SR, the setting and even the system. I appreciate the work FASA did to develop intricate and unique systems for things like decking, rigging, and magic. But it is not a game I would recommend to
anyone new to tabletop RPGs. Just character creation can be a bit daunting for those not used to them.

I think it would have been wise of them to take advantage of the fact that your average gamer has access to far more polyhedrons than just a d6. They have d4s, d8s, d10s, d12s, d20s, percentile dice; options that could bring a much greater
number of variables than a d6, that also wouldn't necessitate adding more and more d6s for higher levels of skills and powers. But its also hard to change the fundamentals of a game system that has been around for so long without somewhat
alienating old school players.

Just a critique. Curious as to what some of the SR vets have say on the point.
nezumi
SR2 is what I learned RPGs on (and in fact, what I learned RPGs are on). I didn't have too much trouble smile.gif Yes, it's far more complex than most games, but it's written such that you can only learn one piece at a time if you like.

As for the dice, a d20 system has a flat probability curve and the variability is awful. The SR d6 system not using other dice isn't a flaw, it's an intentional design feature. It gives skilled characters dependability and unskilled characters variability, and provides it in a way that I've not seen any other game come close to. I'd be happy to pull it apart and go into details, but most people don't care for probability mappings. Suffice to say, from a mathematical viewpoint, the all d6 system is 'very good'.
Always Overkill
Interesting points on the d6 vs. the d20 systems; I am surprised to learn about the probability curve being higher on the
d6; seems like the d20 would have more variability with all the situational modifiers that can be put in to the equation.
But I will take your word for it; no need to break out the tables, as fun as that sounds.

Thanks for the friendly conjecture on the subject.
Ryu
There is ED-crossover stuff I would have liked to see (and do provide for my group because they agree), but any hope of a clear line of "official" history is gone since Clutch of Dragons at the latest. Besides not being sure nuFASA would be an improvement.
Wounded Ronin
SR 2 and 3 game engine felt a lot more true to life than D20 systems.

The only game system that seemed more hardcore in trying to be ultra realistic was Phoenix Command.


QUOTE (nezumi @ Dec 21 2013, 11:40 AM) *
SR2 is what I learned RPGs on (and in fact, what I learned RPGs are on). I didn't have too much trouble smile.gif Yes, it's far more complex than most games, but it's written such that you can only learn one piece at a time if you like.

As for the dice, a d20 system has a flat probability curve and the variability is awful. The SR d6 system not using other dice isn't a flaw, it's an intentional design feature. It gives skilled characters dependability and unskilled characters variability, and provides it in a way that I've not seen any other game come close to. I'd be happy to pull it apart and go into details, but most people don't care for probability mappings. Suffice to say, from a mathematical viewpoint, the all d6 system is 'very good'.


Adam
QUOTE (Always Overkill @ Dec 21 2013, 09:05 AM) *
Its a tough question, I loved FASA back in its heyday; they produced some amazing settings that led to some truly unique RP opportunities. I am really unsure as to what exactly brought FASA down. I know there have been publishing
companies that near bankrupted themselves during the development of just the core books of some new RPGs. Maybe FASA overextended itself trying to get 3rd ed out to the wider gaming world.


FASA actually overextended themselves on other projects: acquiring Ral Partha, then the miniatures game Vor and Crucible, neither of which had much chance to get legs. Plus the failed merger with Decipher. In their last few years, Shadowrun was the main earner for FASA.
Always Overkill
QUOTE (Wounded Ronin @ Dec 23 2013, 03:51 PM) *
SR 2 and 3 game engine felt a lot more true to life than D20 systems.


Yeah I agree completely there, the d20 was never really designed for ultra-realism, more for the ease of learning and a slightly quicker game pace.

Although they did release a d20 A Game of Thrones RPG that added a lot of realism and an unforgiving combat system where your characters survival was in doubt whenever
they drew their swords. It was a nice adaptation for a fantasy world that thrives on its brutal realism. It forms a nice bridge between the grittiness of some RPG systems
without losing the ease of play, (it sure kept you on your toes though!)

Since it is surprisingly appropriate for this part of the discussion; this very same RPG, A Game of Thrones d20, pretty much broke the back of the publishing company
Guardians of Order. The White Wolf subsidiary, Swords and Sorcery, was forced to come in and help them finish the core book and get it published. Guardians of Order had
bitten off far more than they can chew. It is a massive book (even thicker than the SR 5th ed Corebook,) just filled to the brim with the backgrounds and histories of
Westeros. It was actually a pretty good adaptation that does make you feel as though you are in the Seven Kingdoms. I would recommend it to anyone thinking of running a
game in that particular setting.
tete
QUOTE (Blade @ Oct 22 2013, 09:43 AM) *
@Wounded Ronin: I actually think that Shadowrun needs to be split into three universes: Shadowrun 2035 (for those who want to play "contemporary technothriller with magic and ware"), Shadowrun 2050 (for those who want to play "80s cyberpunk") and Shadowrun 2070 (for those who prefer post-cyberpunk / early transhumanism).

They could share the same base rules, but each would have its own quirks so that both rules and settings could completely fit the expectations, and so that writers could write the Shadowrun they like. It would be better than having each writer trying to pull Shadowrun towards what he wants the game to be, and ending up with a weird mix that doesn't completely please anyone.


OMG this!
Prime Mover
Nu/Fasa pretty much fasa in name only. Makes me feel like the poll needs an edit.
DMiller
QUOTE (Prime Mover @ Jan 18 2014, 02:52 AM) *
Nu/Fasa pretty much fasa in name only. Makes me feel like the poll needs an edit.

FINO?
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