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StreetSammy
So what I'm wondering here is if there is a way for someone in Shadowrun to be initiated into one of the Earthdawn disciplines. I'm not really asking for a mechanical conversion, this is more just a lore question. If the person wasn't already awakened then maybe some form of thread weaving would have to be involved, after all that's how it was done in Earthdawn if I recall correctly.
Sendaz
The closest thing currently is adepts and mystic adepts depending on what you want to do.

Also remember ED has a different style of magic than you find in SR.

In SR your spells are instant or sustained, with an option to quicken for longer effects for some, while in ED a lot of the spells are fire 'n forget- you cast and they operate for a certain time once set in motion or otherwise operate in ways they don't in SR.

Fire Arrow is a good example. In SR I could cast a fire bolt or similar spell to hit you with as a pure spell. But I can not fire an arrow from my bow/fire a bullet and enhance that attack with an added fire spell on top in that same round really.
See current arguments about shock gloves and having punch damage and electric damage in the same attack. (Quick answer it's one or the other)
In contrast in ED, I can fire an arrow and if I have the Fire Arrow ability, this adds a fire elemental effect that stacks on top of the original weapon's damage and is something I can do rapidly and repeatedly until I exhaust myself.

Now back in SR I could possibly do something with a melee style attack and an elemental aura but at the current stage of magic, it doesn't really work with missles very well, though one could spend some time and karma enchanting/anchoring and so on.
But its not very fast and there are threads devoted to the enchanting bit already and arguments about what you can stick on arrows (and bullets if at all) already.
See also Suppression Fire w/ Fireball Enhanced Rounds (SuFFER for good reason) and why this may not be a good thing, especially if you are on the receiving end.

So some things will translate across while others may need a bit of juggling to accomplish and with the advancement in technology you may also need to judge whether it really should or not as high tech + magic on top together could be unbalancing/TPK if you are not ready for it.
StreetSammy
I'm not really interested in bringing them over mechanically. I'm just curious cause I read in the Earthdawn handbook that people become adepts by changing the way they act and think to more closely mirror their discipline. This opens them up to the magic and they start down the path. What I'm wondering is if someone like Harlequin could teach this to someone, perhaps even someone who's not awakened (the whole "magic flooding into their true pattern" part sounds an awful lot like awakening to me). Not that I'm saying he would teach someone this, just wondering if he could.
Sendaz
That is a good question.

The ability to awaken someone would be the Golden Egg to top all others or more aptly named The Philosopher Pill (Conspiracy Theories pg 72).

If such a process exists, those who know are not telling.

Plus you would also have to ask, was the person truly not awakened to start with or perhaps was a Latent talent that said Harlequin/Other parties spotted their potential and were able to help make the leap.
Ryu
Mechanically you can always create a custom discipline. ED magic is of course more powerful, but also more focussed on specific areas due to the class-based system. Iīd stay away from classes in SR.

The warrior societies of Aztlan and the Elven Path of the Tirs are both creating common magical principles that give their members specific powers. You could also see the adept ways as something like a discipline. Also look at the SOTA book on magical theories, specifically Unified Magical Theory. Get enough believers, and your way creates power. ED namegivers can see all kinds of magical stuff so have it easier, as this is more about "collective knowledge" rather than "individual belief".

I think there is one statement about Aztlan that implies they are intentionally re-creating disciplines (would have to dig for that one), but itīs certainly a long-term process.
Jaid
last i recall, not just anyone in the earthdawn setting can awaken. it seems like there are more powerful awakened people in the setting, but i'm not sure i'd go so far as to say there are more awakened in general (bearing in mind that 1% of the population being awakened only *sounds* small; if you start listing the people you know, odds are good that you would know several awakened individuals if 1% of the RL population of the world consisted of awakened individuals).
flowswithdrek
Some things to consider, in Shadowrun magic is still new and only at the beginning of the cycle whereas Earthdawn is at the end of the cycle with the levels of magic Ďartificially stabilisedí. The way the people view and interact with magic has stabilised over the period of thousands of years.

Even though in Earthdawn people are initiated into the disciplines Iím pretty sure itís still a case of you have that potential or you donít, and only a small percentage of the population have that potential spark, much the same as Shadowrun, you have the potential to be awakened or you donít. only the a small percentage of those that have the potential ever live up to it.

I donít see any reason why you couldnít have similar disciplines in Shadowrun, but perhaps that way of thinking isnít really there anymore (unless you are an immortal elf). Perhaps look at how people do similar things but different? People generally donít go about on horses anymore; they use cars and bikes instead so no cavalary men but bikers and petrol heads. People generally go to war with swords (shadowruners seem to be the exception) but with guns. The Scout Discipline might port across pretty easily. Instead of a Troubadour you would have the Rockstar or something similar. Instead of a Sky Raider you might have some kind of Daredevil. Thief ports over pretty easy as well, maglocks might be a problem.

I guess the main problem is magic not integrating into technology well, but you could simply change that.
Donít forget that in Earthdawn you can undergo spontaneous initiation into a discipline in times of extreme stress.
StreetSammy
In regards to the idea of awakened individuals in earthdawn, they never use that term or anything approximating it. One of the sections about the fluff says that what they look for a person who possess an "openness to new experiences, and the ability to dedicate oneself to a way of living." They also say that you can't be sickly otherwise the process might kill you. They also estimate that given these requirements, about 1/20 of the people can be sufficiently trained along the path. And in regards to the people who have some magical abilities, but aren't full adepts it says this, "I believe that the mental and emotional intensity and determination required of a full adept simply lie beyond the abilities of a minor adept." So all of this tells me that in the fourth world, either everyone is awakened, so it's not a quality that they need to look for, or they don't have a concept of the awakened, because for them it doesn't matter.

Also, in some of the earlier editions of Shadowrun (the second edition Spell grimoire I believe). There are some quotes that say that many magicians believe more people would be able to do magic if they could change their mindset. Don't really know if that affects anything regarding this discussion, but it might.
Shaidar
However, ALL of the Earthdawn classes are Adepts.
StreetSammy
Yes, but the term Adept in Earthdawn does not mean the same thing as it does in Shadowrun. The wizard is an earthdawn adept, even though they gain their powers in a different way than most adepts.
Shaidar
QUOTE (StreetSammy @ Jan 12 2015, 03:41 AM) *
Yes, but the term Adept in Earthdawn does not mean the same thing as it does in Shadowrun. The wizard is an earthdawn adept, even though they gain their powers in a different way than most adepts.


All characters use Thread Weaving, each with a slightly different flavor.
StreetSammy
That's correct, but I'm not understanding how what you originally said relates to the topic.
Shaidar
I'm asserting that at my table ED Adepts = SR Adepts/Mystic Adepts, MA for the caster-type Disciplines and Adepts for the rest. IIRC, there was little in the way of Astral Projecting in ED.
Sendaz
QUOTE (Shaidar @ Jan 14 2015, 10:42 AM) *
IIRC, there was little in the way of Astral Projecting in ED.
Sure there was, it just usually had a high risk of ending up being a one way trip. nyahnyah.gif

Nom nom nom.....
Mintro
Earthdawn non mage type characters are basically physical adepts in SR. However you'd have to find someone that was already part of the earthdawn discipline.

I believe harlequin is a high circle mage and swordmaster and his tradition is stated to not match anything current but closest to hermetic tradition.

Frosty is likely imitated in a similar way as she was taught by him.

I do think you'd have to be awakened to be in a discipline though. (latent awakening trait can be useful for this)
StreetSammy
I'm wondering if the process of becoming an initiate would awaken someone, because to me the way it's described in Earthdawn, sounds really similar to how it's an awakening is described in Shadowrun. The whole, "magic flooding their true pattern" sounds like an awakening to me.
Shaidar
QUOTE (Sendaz @ Jan 14 2015, 06:45 AM) *
QUOTE (Shaidar @ Jan 14 2015, 06:42 AM) *

IIRC, there was little in the way of Astral Projecting in ED.



Sure there was, it just usually had a high risk of ending up being a one way trip. nyahnyah.gif

Nom nom nom.....


Refresh my memory, which Disciplines could Project and how was it accomplished?
flowswithdrek
QUOTE (Shaidar @ Jan 15 2015, 06:35 PM) *
Sure there was, it just usually had a high risk of ending up being a one way trip. nyahnyah.gif

Nom nom nom.....


Refresh my memory, which Disciplines could Project and how was it accomplished?



I don't think astral projection is a common thing or has ease of access as it is in Shadowrun, and for good and obvious reasons.

I think there were spells, powers, and objects that allowed astral projection, but IIRC the main way was via a talent called Netherwalk. Still in the 20 year's I've played Earthdawn I don't think I can remember a character astrally projecting
Sendaz
Flows is correct that the primary means of Astral Projection was the Netherwalk Talent (ED companion) though Spirit Portal as a spell was a popular method for the group to use as it allowed one to take their whole form through.
Some spirits could also open portals for the group to pass through and thus some summoned spirits just for that ability.

Lightbearers also had the Astral Shift ability, so with a bit of work (and GM approval) most any adept could gain it. Not that you would really want to.....but hey those crazy LBs are good to have around when dark things rise.

Interestingly in ED, astral movement rate was pretty much the same as in the mundane world, except for being able to pass through stuff, unless using certain spells that bridged gaps and such while in SR astral movement can zip you right around the world in very little time.

This of course may just be due to tiptoeing quietly along so as to not attract attention or to avoid zipping into something that zaps you. wink.gif
StreetSammy
Interesting thing to note, I was reading the "Neo-Anarchist Guide" (http://www.pvv.ntnu.no/~leirbakk/rpg/shadowrun/magic/shadowrun_magic_naga.html) it says that "Whether it is altered brain chemistry or the psychological acrobatics required for thaumaturgy, magicians are different from mundanes. A friend of mine observed that we (magicians, that is) all seem to "think sideways." Magicians are intensely individualistic people, even the most rigid corporate wagemage." This could mean that what makes a mage is more of a psychological factor rather than a purely genetic one (which none of the megacorps have been able to find even with all the resources that are being thrown at it, and the fact that even long-grown clones of awakened individuals don't always awaken). Maybe it's possible to brainwash someone into a mage (or an adept; earthdawn or otherwise). Would make sense from a logistical standpoint at least since truly brainwashing someone to the point where they internalize and believe a different worldview is difficult to say the least.
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