Full Version: I hit 62 today...
Just thought I'd get a sense of how many silverbacks are out there.
you are now twice as old as me you poor old man O.o
happy birthday/my condolences, depending on what you want it to be ^^
happy birthday/my condolences, depending on what you want it to be ^^
Heh, 45 here so you are still Alpha Gramps. 
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Jun 3 2015, 04:33 PM) 
you are now twice as old as me you poor old man O.o
happy birthday/my condolences, depending on what you want it to be ^^
happy birthday/my condolences, depending on what you want it to be ^^
Heh. Every year has contributed richly.
Wow. Seriously? I can't be the oldest.
I'm going to have to lay claim to some kind of special status if I am.
I'm going to have to lay claim to some kind of special status if I am.
QUOTE (pbangarth @ Jun 9 2015, 06:52 PM)
Wow. Seriously? I can't be the oldest.
I'm going to have to lay claim to some kind of special status if I am.
I'm going to have to lay claim to some kind of special status if I am.
Can you mentor us with some folksy wisdom of the frozen nord?
QUOTE (pbangarth @ Jun 10 2015, 12:52 AM)
Wow. Seriously? I can't be the oldest.
I'm going to have to lay claim to some kind of special status if I am.
I'm going to have to lay claim to some kind of special status if I am.
Tell some stories!
How old were you when you started P&P,
what did you play?
QUOTE (Wounded Ronin @ Jun 9 2015, 11:54 PM)
Can you mentor us with some folksy wisdom of the frozen nord?
Long winter nights aren't as bad as you might think.
Mobility is at least as important as firepower.
A single combatant, no matter how powerful, will lose to a mob.
Freedom is much easier to lose than to win.
Democracy rarely is.
Genghis Khan had no trouble dealing with insurgents.
QUOTE (Bertramn @ Jun 10 2015, 04:40 AM)
Tell some stories!
How old were you when you started P&P,
what did you play?
How old were you when you started P&P,
what did you play?
25. Original boxed set of D&D. I was the designated guy to learn it and teach it to the gang.
D&D.
AD&D 1,2,3.
Shadowrun 1,2,3,4.
Call of Cthulhu.
Traveller. (Yes, I had one PC die during chargen.)
Manhunter. (Betcha few of you even heard of it.)
Paranoia.
Mechwarrior (and Battletech).
Star Wars.
Changeling.
Big Eyes, Small Mouth.
Used to belong to the RPGA. Got to Grandmaster level three times, because they kept losing my points.
First wife: D&D, AD&D. Created a world together.
Second wife: AD&D, Shadowrun. Carried that AD&D world over, and she created a Campaign (to end all campaigns ... seriously .. she is that good a writer. I quit AD&D after the campaign ended because all else would be anticlimactic.)
Third wife: Shadowrun, but just a bit. She loses interest after a few hours of play. We find other things to do. Amazing how exciting real life can be. (He: "I've always wanted to go down that road and see where it leads." She: "So let's go!")
Best group of players I ever GMed was a bunch of teenagers including one of my daughters. Intelligence, creativity and cooperation.
QUOTE (pbangarth @ Jun 10 2015, 06:51 PM)
Long winter nights aren't as bad as you might think.
Mobility is at least as important as firepower.
A single combatant, no matter how powerful, will lose to a mob.
Freedom is much easier to lose than to win.
Democracy rarely is.
Genghis Khan had no trouble dealing with insurgents.
Mobility is at least as important as firepower.
A single combatant, no matter how powerful, will lose to a mob.
Freedom is much easier to lose than to win.
Democracy rarely is.
Genghis Khan had no trouble dealing with insurgents.
The next time I play a barbarian warrior from the frozen nord, I'll be sure to incorporate these one liners.
Right before he rushes headlong into a throng of foes?
QUOTE (X-Kalibur @ Jun 13 2015, 02:21 AM)
Right before he rushes headlong into a throng of foes?
It would be kind of hilarious if that were his excuse or one-liner when tired after raging.
Wow. At 00:47 this morning, I was the only named member on the board. 49 anonymous guests and me. How rare is that?
QUOTE (pbangarth @ Jun 16 2015, 12:48 AM)
Wow. At 00:47 this morning, I was the only named member on the board. 49 anonymous guests and me. How rare is that?
Oh! I was also going to ask you the meaning of life. What is it?
QUOTE (pbangarth @ Jun 3 2015, 09:19 PM)
Just thought I'd get a sense of how many silverbacks are out there.
You started roleplaying at about the time I was born. I play about as long as our age difference.
A bit late, but happy birthday and a good year.
I don't think I have lived long enough to know the meaning of life. There are a number of answers provided by various philosophies, and some make more sense to me than others. My guess is I won't know the meaning of life till after mine is over.
That's my sense of how a lot of people on this board fit in my time frame, Ryu. Thanks for the good wishes.
So, I just changed my Avatar name.
That's my sense of how a lot of people on this board fit in my time frame, Ryu. Thanks for the good wishes.
So, I just changed my Avatar name.
QUOTE (pbangarth @ Jun 17 2015, 11:02 PM)
I don't think I have lived long enough to know the meaning of life. There are a number of answers provided by various philosophies, and some make more sense to me than others. My guess is I won't know the meaning of life till after mine is over.
That's my sense of how a lot of people on this board fit in my time frame, Ryu. Thanks for the good wishes.
That's my sense of how a lot of people on this board fit in my time frame, Ryu. Thanks for the good wishes.
You got me beat by 20 years......
RPG Games I've played:
D&D 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 3.5, 4th--Longest campaign was about 10 years real time.
Star Wars (West End and Fantasy Flight versions)
SR1,2,3&4 (Have 5th BBB, read it, will stick to 4th with modifications).
Gurps--(Wierdist game, started out as a cop framed for drug dealing, ended up going after the pope on mars)
Twilight 2000
Traveler
WOD: Vampire, Mage, Werewolf (Last time I played, I lost my humanity real quick, sucked the soul of another vamp within the first 15 minutes of the game)
Paranoia (Clones dying in character gen--4, stupid test)
Call of cathulu
TNMT
Rifts
Probably some others that I forgot the name of.
Happy belated B-day PB.
As of today, i am officially 0,5 pbangarth
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Jun 20 2015, 03:34 PM)
As of today, i am officially 0,5 pbangarth
Ah. A demi-geezer.
Guess we should break out the SeniorRun™ e-books.
Senior Grimoire - Ancient Magicks, no really, its what old people cast.
Canes & Catheters - Advanced Biotech Rules and Medical equipment
Rigger Greybook - Pimping your Golf Cart, Runner style
Mashugana Metal - showcasing all your cyber and bio options, like Tired Reflexes, Cyber Hips, and Denture Lacing.
Doting Trails- Why you still can't program what passes for your VCR in the 2070s.
Senior Grimoire - Ancient Magicks, no really, its what old people cast.
Canes & Catheters - Advanced Biotech Rules and Medical equipment
Rigger Greybook - Pimping your Golf Cart, Runner style
Mashugana Metal - showcasing all your cyber and bio options, like Tired Reflexes, Cyber Hips, and Denture Lacing.
Doting Trails- Why you still can't program what passes for your VCR in the 2070s.
QUOTE (Sendaz @ Jun 21 2015, 07:15 PM)
Guess we should break out the SeniorRun™ e-books.
Senior Grimoire - Ancient Magicks, no really, its what old people cast.
Canes & Catheters - Advanced Biotech Rules and Medical equipment
Rigger Greybook - Pimping your Golf Cart, Runner style
Mashugana Metal - showcasing all your cyber and bio options, like Tired Reflexes, Cyber Hips, and Denture Lacing.
Doting Trails- Why you still can't program what passes for your VCR in the 2070s.
Senior Grimoire - Ancient Magicks, no really, its what old people cast.
Canes & Catheters - Advanced Biotech Rules and Medical equipment
Rigger Greybook - Pimping your Golf Cart, Runner style
Mashugana Metal - showcasing all your cyber and bio options, like Tired Reflexes, Cyber Hips, and Denture Lacing.
Doting Trails- Why you still can't program what passes for your VCR in the 2070s.
I want Dumpshock to implement 'liking posts', but only for this one, singular post
You're older than me.
But you're not twice my age. So stuff THAT in your pipe or not!
(Hint: DON'T DO IT!)
But you're not twice my age. So stuff THAT in your pipe or not!
(Hint: DON'T DO IT!)
Was born the same year as Shadowrun... that gotta count for something right?
Sorry grandad. 34 here.
Seriously though. I have deep seated issues with aging and mortality, so 34 might as well be 134.
Seriously though. I have deep seated issues with aging and mortality, so 34 might as well be 134.
QUOTE (pbangarth @ Jun 21 2015, 09:58 PM)
Ah. A demi-geezer.
ok, i have managed to not write this for weeks now.
Built like a semi, aged like a demi. i'll get my coat now.
QUOTE (eidolon @ Jul 27 2015, 09:45 PM)
Sorry grandad. 34 here.
Seriously though. I have deep seated issues with aging and mortality, so 34 might as well be 134.
Seriously though. I have deep seated issues with aging and mortality, so 34 might as well be 134.
Grappling with mortality was a profoundly traumatic but ultimately transformative experience for me. It took years. Maybe the key to insight in this life is to grapple with mortality.
QUOTE (Wounded Ronin @ Aug 22 2015, 02:09 AM)
Grappling with mortality was a profoundly traumatic but ultimately transformative experience for me. It took years. Maybe the key to insight in this life is to grapple with mortality.
You got any tips for that? My mortality is a big component of my anxiety disorder
QUOTE (Lionhearted @ Aug 22 2015, 12:54 PM)
You got any tips for that? My mortality is a big component of my anxiety disorder
I'm flattered and will try to say something of value.
This is one of those things that is a bit hard to articulate over the internet. After all mortality is one of the primal and most profound fears of humankind going back thousands of years. And grappling with it has been a long, difficult, and messy process, where it's a bit personal to put it on a message board, to say the least.
That being said I feel like in this day and age so much is said or expressed that is meaningless frivolity while the serious questions are deferred. Surely to hold a discussion of true value is a pinprick of light in the darkness of our misguided society. So I'll post what my gut tells me could be appropriate for the venue, but if you want to jump in and discuss in more detail simply PM me and I'll be happy.
Ultimately what it really comes down to is accepting mortality. This is easier said than done because our society is so very wayward in this regard. We venerate youth, discriminate against the aged, and death is hidden deep within the bowls of a healthcare system from whence people normally accept miracles. Earlier societies all over the world were very accepting of mortality. Babies less than a year old had a relatively high probability of dying and communities expected this so there are many examples around the world of the first birthday being a major celebration. If we look at medieval art examples from Japan and from Europe we can see the theme of mortality and the inherent vanity of life eloquently expressed in visual, poetic, and literary mediums.
So, I think one element of wisdom in this regard is to realize that our current consumerist society purveys folly. All the unspoken attitudes and expectations that exist regarding life and death are basically backwards, even pre-medieval.
The problem is that simply intellectualizing this is different from experiential wisdom and by itself does not really offer a solution to the fear. I feel like in my case I was able to start to address this because at one point in time I had worked in a healthcare related job so I was able to see illness and mortality firsthand. I had to see and work with these realities in order to shatter and renounce the consumerist immortalist lies constantly perpetuated by today's Western society.
I think the next element is to realize the relationships between ego, and how one identifies oneself, with fear of both mortality and fear of change or uncertainty. People fear death because they identify their essential essence with their personality, circumstances, experience, and knowledge at any given time. Death and to a lesser extent change represents a negation of that identity. This was eloquently expressed towards the end of the play Peer Gynt: https://archive.org/stream/peergyntdramatic...seuoft_djvu.txt
The full relevant text is in the spoiler tag (I guess the classical style of writing is really long winded) but here is the crux of it:
QUOTE
But the other idea to be swallowed up
Like a speck in a mass of strange material
This ladle business losing all
The attributes that make a Gynt
That fills my inmost soul with horror !
BUTTON-MOULDER. But, my dear Peer, there is no need
For you to make so great a fuss
About so small a thing ; because
You never yet have been yourself.
What difference can it make to you
If, when you die, you disappear ?
Like a speck in a mass of strange material
This ladle business losing all
The attributes that make a Gynt
That fills my inmost soul with horror !
BUTTON-MOULDER. But, my dear Peer, there is no need
For you to make so great a fuss
About so small a thing ; because
You never yet have been yourself.
What difference can it make to you
If, when you die, you disappear ?
[ Spoiler ]
Note how the Button Moulder tells Gynt that he has never been himself! THIS is the key point! Any sense of permanent or enduring identity is not real. It is an abstraction created by your mind. A big part of the pain and fear concerning mortality and change is the idea that the true self is being violated by changing circumstances that have the power to change the self. But the truth is that the self is nothing but a construct and that construct is doomed because circumstances will change and any given self cannot be sustained indefinitely. Change could be death but it could be something as banal as a change in income, the loss of a major prized possession, or emergence of a medical problem.
The artificial construct of personal identity affects not only the self but relationships with other people. It is a source of conflict when two people hold senses of identity that they feel is impugned by the other. Someone can only be my enemy due to his circumstances and needs in relation to mine.
This was actually expressed by Bruce Lee in the deleted scene from Enter The Dragon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lyl71WihT-A
QUOTE
"There is no opponent."
"And why is that?"
"Because the word 'I' does not exist."
...
"You must remember the enemy has only images and illusions, behind which he hides his true motives. Destroy the image and you will break the enemy.
"And why is that?"
"Because the word 'I' does not exist."
...
"You must remember the enemy has only images and illusions, behind which he hides his true motives. Destroy the image and you will break the enemy.
If you can ultimately destroy the images and illusions that make up how you understand and experience the world, the Enemy will be broken, because the word "I" does not exist.
My current understanding is that the only way to do all this is a combination of living with strong morality (because immoral actions tend to relate to clinging and ego aggrandizement) and serious, energetic daily practice of sitting insight meditation. Lots of meditation is the only way I am aware of to directly experience everything I alluded to and thus make it real instead of all this stuff just being a brittle intellectual game.
Complex Western intellectual philosophies (much of the stuff you would have read about in college if you were a liberal arts major) do not really work because due to their nature they tend to melt in your mind, becoming unusable, given high enough prolonged stress levels.
Essentially, the solution is pursuit of gnosis that moves beyond purely the intellectual.
And, let's relate this to role playing games. I think there's a metaphor that can be had here. Some players (perhaps you know one or more like this) will get upset, throw a hissy fit, go home, or even threaten to commit suicide if their player character is killed, destroyed, loses their magic sword, gets statistically crippled, or if something happens in game that they feel majorly violates their sense of who the player character is.
Why do they act this way? Because on some level they have a sense of identity tied up with that player character being empowered and being able to act in a certain way.
Other players will realize that in a gaming setting where the GM doesn't re-roll, doesn't modify encounters, and where there are no mulligans or takebacks, that as time goes on the chances of something like this happening go up. They accept that they will eventually have to play a different role and cultivate the open mindedness and flexibility to see the value in this. Even if their character is ignominiously destroyed in some horrible way (mind eaten by Cthulu before being ritually sacrificed, let's say) they don't feel personally impugned by this but rather look forward to trying a new character suitable for the harsh setting they are gaming in.
QUOTE
I think the next element is to realize the relationships between ego, and how one identifies oneself, with fear of both mortality and fear of change or uncertainty. People fear death because they identify their essential essence with their personality, circumstances, experience, and knowledge at any given time. Death and to a lesser extent change represents a negation of that identity.
If you have a belief in an afterlife you can define it as change, as for me its oblivion. The destruction of my continous experience of self, an end to my conciousness... I quite like existing, I want to hold on to it.
QUOTE
the truth is that the self is nothing but a construct and that construct is doomed because circumstances will change and any given self cannot be sustained indefinitely.
Entrophy is a bitch, Asimovs the last question is a personal favourite on the subject
QUOTE
I feel like in my case I was able to start to address this because at one point in time I had worked in a healthcare related job so I was able to see illness and mortality firsthand.
I used to be an undertaker
QUOTE
rather look forward to trying a new character suitable for the harsh setting they are gaming in.
Thats the issue though, in my belief there is no rerolls in real life, no transient soul, no experience beyond your meat body. Are you a religious man Ronin? because I dont see how you could be comfortable with this otherwise
QUOTE (Lionhearted @ Aug 24 2015, 07:29 AM)
If you have a belief in an afterlife you can define it as change, as for me its oblivion. The destruction of my continous experience of self, an end to my conciousness... I quite like existing, I want to hold on to it.
Entrophy is a bitch, Asimovs the last question is a personal favourite on the subject
I used to be an undertaker
Thats the issue though, in my belief there is no rerolls in real life, no transient soul, no experience beyond your meat body. Are you a religious man Ronin? because I dont see how you could be comfortable with this otherwise
Entrophy is a bitch, Asimovs the last question is a personal favourite on the subject
I used to be an undertaker
Thats the issue though, in my belief there is no rerolls in real life, no transient soul, no experience beyond your meat body. Are you a religious man Ronin? because I dont see how you could be comfortable with this otherwise
Indeed! Entropy is the principle.
Being an undertaker sounds like an interesting job. I haven't done that, myself.
I am fascinated by your response because I myself hadn't been sure if I were religious or not and wasn't sure what to tell people if they asked me. I'm fascinated that by reading the post you seem to have zeroed in onto a question in my own mind that I didn't explicitly ask.
After some reflection, I would say that I am not religious in the conventional sense, because I feel that organized religion is primarily about creating social cohesion, whereas the pursuit of gnosis tends to start on the same foundations (i.e. strong morality) but then necessarily dissolves social cohesion because the seeker will eventually transcend the mental boundaries of the self, the community, the world, and even the universe, so that social cohesion except as a means to an end to produce ethical behaviors within a certain group becomes meaningless.
An example of the conflict between mainstream religion and gnosis would be how the Cathars (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catharism) were all burned as part of a crusade organized by the mainstream church. It was all about preserving social cohesion and authority, and no longer about helping people to experience transcendent insight.
I feel like I am pursuing the stuff that the major religions were originally intended to shed light on when they were first founded long ago by people who themselves had attained gnostic insights, but which has been specifically edited out by organized religions, precisely because these insights tend to undermine authority and existing social and economic structures. Undermining social cohesion can be bad if this will cause people to act selfishly, but someone who is dedicated to seeking gnosis should be kind and generous with everyone as part of the gnostic discipline.
So, I don't know if you would choose to call me religious or not, but the way I was able to move beyond what at one point had been a tremendous fear of mortality was to realize that my identity as I construe it now doesn't really exist and to be comfortable with change, even when change means death and oblivion and the atoms and organic molecules that make up your body taking a different form. To tell the truth my study of organic chemistry also helped me with this insight because it made me realize that my body which I had always taken for granted as distinct and inviolable is actually nothing more than an energy pattern resting among other energy patterns. It's actually a network of flowing electrons and particles bonded together in particular ways by ionic and covalent forces. If I die and decompose it just means that my millions of pieces and parts decide to go off on their own way and seek new adventures.
The bottom line is that it actually makes sense when you say you aren't comfortable with that. If your concern is mortality, you can't simply embrace mortality and change because of something you read on the internet. I think that the only way to embrace mortality is to directly experience the insight of the self not feeling real. After lots of meditation when you suddenly realize, and have it feel as real as the chair you're sitting on, that the only thing separating you from the table in front of you and yourself is your conscious experience of yourself, and you feel the table in awe...I think that is the turning point.
It's not something you think, it's something you do, through lots of practice and discipline. If you're interested in more detail on that I can PM you.
So my mind goes back to the RPG character analogy. If a player has a favorite player character and identifies with that character, and projects all kinds of vicarious fantasy into that character, that player will often be stressed and jumpy in game if things aren't going well for that character. Again I am sure you must have met at least one player like this.
And what I'm trying to describe is that through discipline and practice, a player who previously identified with a certain player character might realize that the player character is imaginary. He can intellectualize this but still cling to the player character, so what I am talking about is if this player gains enough life experience and insight to no longer be bothered about his player character or no longer rely on it for his psychological needs.
QUOTE
If I die and decompose it just means that my millions of pieces and parts decide to go off on their own way and seek new adventures.
That is already happening, we constantly interchange matter with everything around you, your body doesnt have a single atom that was originally in your body ten years ago. So the body is in its nature transient, but the mind, the conciousness, memory, thought, dream. That is a continous experience from the moment you are born.
That continous experience is your entire existence (and something I've completated quite a bit... is your experience in fact continous is it the same mind even if say, you suffer brain injuries and your personality change?)
That existence is bound for oblivion unless you believe in some form of afterlife, no thought, no emotion, no nothing. That scares the crap out of me.
I found the way to stave of panic is not to aknowledge this but rather ignore it. To let yourself believe in the naive notion that we will achieve immortality before this becomes something I have to face... Then again, 100 years, 1 million years? eventually entrophy catch up... Which leads us to the last question "How do you reverse entrophy?"
QUOTE (Wounded Ronin @ Aug 24 2015, 04:49 PM)
Being an undertaker sounds like an interesting job. I haven't done that, myself.
It must be awesome as people are literally dying just to be seen by them. QUOTE (Lionhearted @ Aug 25 2015, 07:01 AM)
Which leads us to the last question "How do you reverse entrophy?"
Summon a Spirit of Man?
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