have a nice day!
Full Version: Prisons and punishment
Okay, we will never meet in the middle on this, and your responses are growing more sarcastic than makes for an enjoyable thread. How about you do it the way you want in your game and I'll do it the way I want in my game. Everyone's happy!
have a nice day!
have a nice day!
Drones aren't a bad idea, but they need backup. Drone sensors do not get a chance to resist some illusion spells. Which means that makes it all the harder to determine an escape if and once they happen.
The Awakened ivy isn't that expensive, IIRC.
Also, Drones eat illusions for lunch if you spend enough on Sensors. Just keep a sensor lock on the inmates, and they're not going anywhere.
~J
Also, Drones eat illusions for lunch if you spend enough on Sensors. Just keep a sensor lock on the inmates, and they're not going anywhere.
~J
Double-posts provide even better security.
~J
~J
Why bother with Awakened ivy? Regular ivy works just as well. You can't move through a living thing when astrally active no matter what.
The Abstruse One
The Abstruse One
That was second edition. This is third. You can move through living things in third edition.
Is there a cost and availability for FAB-III listed anywhere? That seems to be a reasonable way to control mages, if they're going to a super-max (underground, etc.) style prison anyway.
Gonna put 200,000+ people in super underground prisons?
To stir things up even more.... 
What about adepts? You obviously don't have to worry about them projecting, but you can't just remove their power like cyberware, and I have to think that removing their abilities completely is fairly rare. Maybe drugs of some kind?
What about adepts? You obviously don't have to worry about them projecting, but you can't just remove their power like cyberware, and I have to think that removing their abilities completely is fairly rare. Maybe drugs of some kind?
| QUOTE (BitBasher) |
| Gonna put 200,000+ people in super underground prisons? |
Nope. Just the small percentage thereof who need that level of security. Again, just because someone's a magician, that doesn't automatically make them a high-risk psychokiller despite whatever it is you have in you mind that says otherwise. For the vast majority, a simple magemask and/or simsense feed is enough to temporarily cripple their magic completely.
Somebody brought up the excellent point, though, that even if the prison isn't intended for magical prisoners, you still want some reliable way of keeping magic users out. Just because someone isn't magically active doesn't mean they don't have several friends who are high grade initiates and would help them break out.
I wonder why the subject of ritual tracking hasn't been brought up yet. It seems to me that the easiest way to assure a magically active prisoner's compliance would be to take as many ritual samples as possible - no magic user in his right mind would (ok, should) even think about trying anything as long as those samples are around. Same goes with adepts and mundanes, of course.
Thoughts?
Thoughts?
| QUOTE (Neon Tiger) |
| . <- This is your @$$hole. O <- This is your @$$hole in prison. |
You can say "asshole".
Sure, there's tons of ways to keep them in check. That's why the notion of stripping any magician of his abilities simply because he's put in prison is ridiculous.
The ritual thing hardly does shit to keep him in check. I'd want to keep my prisoners from doing bad things, not simply threaten them if they do. I don't see why a lifer would care about repurcussions that are hours or days away from being realized. Not when there's a female prison guard right freaking here and you know that you'll never smell the sweet scent of womanhood again for as long as you live.
Which is why I imagine they don't assign female guards to cell blocks conatining sex-crazed lifers. But it's true, ritual samples alone won't do the trick with those people who are in it for life. Maybe there is no easy way to deal with this sort of criminal. The only thing I could think of is taking away their magic entirely, even though that does constitute a violation of some very basic civil rights. And human rights.
But on the other hand, prisoners usually don't enjoy all of their civil rights, do they?
But on the other hand, prisoners usually don't enjoy all of their civil rights, do they?
| QUOTE (A Rodent of Unusual Size) |
| That's why the notion of stripping any magician of his abilities simply because he's put in prison is ridiculous. |
Again, magicians aren't "simply" put in prison. You're a mage and you kill a few corp goons, what's probably going to happen? You'll work out a deal where you don't do time in exchange for a new "work for freedom" contract or the like. You're a mage and you kill a few civilians in a less-than-front-page type manner, you'll probably work out a similar deal with Lone Star, possibly with a little jail time just for show. If you're up on money laundering or some other mundane crime, you might still get one of the above deals or get to spend some time in lower security prison where you get something of an honor system (probably using magic in jail would be a high ranking felony which would possibly lead to stiff consequences).
If you can't fit into a corp, or your crimes are so bad that the public is howling for your blood, expect to spend about a year in maximum security magemask/simsense jail while your appeal process is going on. Then you get to be a mundane. To get to that point, your crimes have to be very bad, you have to be unwilling to reform, or the like. Akin to how the death penalty is currently handled.
Could always brainwash them to believe their powers don't work insid ethe prison. Remember folks, magic is 9/10ths in the mind. If your magician believes with all of thier heart something is just so, it is for them.
When the sentence is up, undo the brain washing.
When the sentence is up, undo the brain washing.
There are ways to ensure a mage doesn't use his abilities without completely stripping them away -- mage masks, for example. Drugs can also help; hard to spellcast when you can't concentrate. Ditto for projecting.
Mages might get their own cells in a wing of a prison, with guards on them that know what to look for in regard to spellcasting, astral projection (as much as one could, since it's hard to tell the difference between falling asleep and projecting without being a mage as well) and the like. Might have a mage or two on duty to double check on these inmates.
Mages might get their own cells in a wing of a prison, with guards on them that know what to look for in regard to spellcasting, astral projection (as much as one could, since it's hard to tell the difference between falling asleep and projecting without being a mage as well) and the like. Might have a mage or two on duty to double check on these inmates.
If I were a guard in a mage prison, I'd be tempted to move the bodies of projecting mages just for spite. But that's me.
Yep, Tinker's policy is sure to go reeeally well with the victims' families / friends. "Sorry Mrs. Bowinkle, but we've decided not to fry the guy who offed your husband and father of your four adorable little kids. As a matter of fact, his killer is now working for us as a freelance-operative, doing what he's best at. Uh, have a nice day."
If I read you right, your point is that since there's so few mages, killing them or locking them away forever would be a waste, so that's why people are looking for ways to recycle magic users. Compare this to the following situation: A man, caucasian, 30 years old, IQ of 165, highly talented IT specialist / neurosurgeon / whatever goes and kills 5 cops and 2 bystanders in the state of Texas. What do you think they would do to him?
I understand if you're looking for ways in which a PC mage could get around going to jail, but I don't think that a convicted murderer, especially a magically active one, should expect any leniency. At least not in my game.
If I read you right, your point is that since there's so few mages, killing them or locking them away forever would be a waste, so that's why people are looking for ways to recycle magic users. Compare this to the following situation: A man, caucasian, 30 years old, IQ of 165, highly talented IT specialist / neurosurgeon / whatever goes and kills 5 cops and 2 bystanders in the state of Texas. What do you think they would do to him?
I understand if you're looking for ways in which a PC mage could get around going to jail, but I don't think that a convicted murderer, especially a magically active one, should expect any leniency. At least not in my game.
| QUOTE (TinkerGnome @ May 26 2004, 07:34 AM) |
| You're a mage and you kill a few civilians in a less-than-front-page type manner, you'll probably work out a similar deal with Lone Star, possibly with a little jail time just for show. |
vs.
| QUOTE (Omega Skip) |
| Compare this to the following situation: A man, caucasian, 30 years old, IQ of 165, highly talented IT specialist / neurosurgeon / whatever goes and kills 5 cops and 2 bystanders in the state of Texas. What do you think they would do to him? |
Not quite the same case. Fine, forced labor, and leaving a ritual sample with the cops is still a troublesome punishment.
True, the cases really aren't that similar. But I'm still not convinced that a convicted murderer should be given a (forced cooperation we'll-kill-you-if-you-step-outta-line) job. I can't imagine the kind of human ressources director who'd greenlight this kind of decision.
Something that could help in this thread would be if somebody with a legal background could chip in a few examples of "who got how much for what". Anybody?
Something that could help in this thread would be if somebody with a legal background could chip in a few examples of "who got how much for what". Anybody?
| QUOTE (Omega Skip) |
| Yep, Tinker's policy is sure to go reeeally well with the victims' families / friends. "Sorry Mrs. Bowinkle, but we've decided not to fry the guy who offed your husband and father of your four adorable little kids. As a matter of fact, his killer is now working for us as a freelance-operative, doing what he's best at. Uh, have a nice day." |
Have you noticed what game we're playing recently? That works perfectly.
~J
Frankly, considering that many corporations consider prisoners to be convenient test subjects for all manner of chemical, cybernetic, and biological experiments, forced labor is a positive choice. Being an operative (with a nice little cranial bomb and all sorts of other "perks" like your own handler who likes to enforce his discipline with a stun baton) sounds like a stellar experience to me.
The real question is how much of this goes on in the public realm. I'd wager that there is a fair amount if only because locking a mage away in a manner which will prevent him from using magic is not likely to lead to reform. And an unreformed magical criminal simply can't be released back onto the public where 99.9% of the population has no hope of defending themselves against him.
The real question is how much of this goes on in the public realm. I'd wager that there is a fair amount if only because locking a mage away in a manner which will prevent him from using magic is not likely to lead to reform. And an unreformed magical criminal simply can't be released back onto the public where 99.9% of the population has no hope of defending themselves against him.
That would also be the worst public relations disaster ever. Also know lone star cannot physically make deals like this because lone star handles punsihment via contract, they have nothing whatsoever to say about the sentencing. Lone Star is not the courts nor do they have anything to do with the courts.
How about making a very large orbital station and use that as a prison. Mages can't do jack shit in space, so all you need is mundane security.
That works, but is extremely expensive. Unless you have them growing wheat up there…
~J
~J
Fun fact, Nasa expects that by 2040 the price to launch things into space will come down to 500$ per pound. That's raw cost.
Also space would work wonderfully for this purpose, but would cost an astronomical amount.
Also space would work wonderfully for this purpose, but would cost an astronomical amount.
| QUOTE (Kagetenshi) |
| That works, but is extremely expensive. Unless you have them growing wheat up there… ~J |
Have them operate hydroponic farms or something up there. That also cuts off some off the expenses of living. And it would be rather impossible to escape from such a prison. Maybe it could also serve as some kind of a research facility, and the prisoners of course being the guinea pigs.
Now that I think of it, that leads to some really nice run ideas.
I was referring more to the income from a certain dragon's bequest than to the practicalities of directly growing food on-board, but that helps too.
~J
~J
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