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GodForsaken
Hi friends, I need some advice.

I am about to start running a Shadowrun 5e with people who never played the game before. One of them played the Shadowrun Returns games.

What will be the best way to give them info about the world? The lore of Shadowrun is huge, with many major historical events, and I don't want to just bombard them with information.

The first session will be mostly character creation, and I will use the optional rules for street-level play. I want them to be informed enough to make a solid decision about the character they want to play, but also make their "n00bness" part of their characters.

Thanks you for your comments smile.gif
Glyph
I would avoid the street-level rules like the plague, unless you want to make it magicrun.
hermit
Use the World of Shadowrun Primer document for the basics of the world. If you want to play Street-level (but why?), try SR4, which doesn't totally force players to play magicans or gimps. In SR5, you simply cannot play a decker, rigger or any cybered character using street-level rules, period.

If you insist on street level SR5, at least use the Core Expansion books - that way, at least some usability can be gained from the little equipment available to mundanes. And think of some restrictions for magical characters too, and level the playing field that way, too.
binarywraith
QUOTE (Glyph @ Apr 30 2016, 12:48 PM) *
I would avoid the street-level rules like the plague, unless you want to make it magicrun.


This man speaks truth. Half of the archtypal characters (Decker, Rigger, Street Sam) are impossible to play at street level because SR5 has set the pricing on the necessary gear too high.
GodForsaken
I want them to learn about the world along with their characters, I want them to aspire to become Shadowrunners, and I want them to work hard for it.

I know that magic is strong. but we are talking new players here, I don't think that they will cover all of their bases, which means that the mage will be good in one or two situations but not in all of them.
Its also important to mention that we are very story driven group, so I am not worrying to much about a Super-Mega-Uber mage ruining the game for us. That being said, in my games I usually portray the Shadowrun magical world a bit more World of Darkness-esque, so mages need to deal with more consequences the more they go crazy with their powers. I will probably use various challenges to "balance the equation" by introducing Background Count, spirits, other mages, etc'.

Also (to balance the cybered characters and low starting resources issue), on character creation, I am not going to give them the books and tell them to start buying gear. I will most likely do it like Apocalypse World, and just give them "gear bundles" in accordance with the priority they gave to resources. So an A resources decker might start with a Microdeck Summit cyberdeck, a nice firearm, a small apartment, and some other relevant gear, but as the priority drops so will the quality of the "gear bundle". As the game will progress they will be introduced to the vast amount of items and gear options in this game, but right now I think it will be very overwhelming and time consuming.

@hermit thank you for the link I will take a look smile.gif
Beta
Have they played other RPG?
GodForsaken
Sure. We all have 15+ years of playing. They just never had the chance to play Shadowrun.
Tecumseh
There are several ways to approach this.

1) As the others have mentioned, don't use the street-level rules on p. 64 of SR5. However, I have had good luck with the Street Scum rules from p. 350.

2) If you are comfortable giving your players gear bundles, perhaps you would also be comfortable creating the characters for them. Talk with them to figure out what sort of character they would like the play, then use that to inform a custom build. That allows you to adjust the power level of the PCs to match what you have in mind. This also lets you bend the rules a bit to give the players what they need, e.g. a deck they might not otherwise be able to afford. (Alternatively, an early mission to acquire a deck - legitimately or illegitimately - is an approach I have used successfully.)

3) The sample characters (p. 112 to 127) are so un-optimized that they may as well be street-level characters. (Notable exception: the street samurai, who is closer to Prime Runner than he is to Street Level.) Start with those and allow your players to tinker with them as they get a grasp on the system and the rules.

It sounds like you have a plan to address magic in the game, and also that you have a story-oriented group that's not too concerned with powergaming and optimization. If so, congratulations. If, for whatever, reason, your guide rails aren't enough to keep magic in line, another approach I've used successfully is to only allow aspected magicians. Having one person play a spellcaster and another play a summoner can be a good way to maintain a healthy division of labor without letting one character become too dominant or too critical to the team's success.

It sounds some of the others aren't fond of them, but street-level campaigns are my favorite, especially with story-minded players. I'll be interested to hear how your group reacts to Shadowrun.
GodForsaken
@Tecumseh thank you for your great comment. I will take a look at the pages you mantioned.

Because my friends are expirienced players, but not expirienced shadowrun players, I am not sure if they will be cool with me building their characters. But I will talk to them about it.

Balance issues are really not the problem though, we played Apocalypse World for two years now and we just enjoyed the story we created and the characters (even though some where the leaders of towns while others were drivers). This is why I want to give them the best tools to create cool characters that will suit the Shadowrun world, without giving them to much information.
Glyph
QUOTE (Tecumseh @ Apr 30 2016, 10:04 PM) *
3) The sample characters (p. 112 to 127) are so un-optimized that they may as well be street-level characters. (Notable exception: the street samurai, who is closer to Prime Runner than he is to Street Level.) Start with those and allow your players to tinker with them as they get a grasp on the system and the rules.

Part of the reason the street samurai is so OP is the he is 200,000+ over on resources. Still, he is hardly a prime runner. He can sneak or drive (a little), shoot things, or hit things. That's it. He defaults to 2 dice for perception, and 1 die for social skills (except that he cannot even default for con). But hey, he has a knowledge skill of Poetry: 1, so at least he's well-rounded.
FriendoftheDork
QUOTE (Glyph @ May 1 2016, 10:32 AM) *
Part of the reason the street samurai is so OP is the he is 200,000+ over on resources. Still, he is hardly a prime runner. He can sneak or drive (a little), shoot things, or hit things. That's it. He defaults to 2 dice for perception, and 1 die for social skills (except that he cannot even default for con). But hey, he has a knowledge skill of Poetry: 1, so at least he's well-rounded.


Amusing, never knew that. Quote for the archetype: "And he made every nuyen stretch." Stretching by 200k is quite impressive wink.gif
It could be explained that all his ware is second rate, installed by some crazy doc who used second-hand ware that could be glitchy. In addition to making him closer to a cyberzombie and affect his social interaction, the gear could be extra glitchy and sometimes power down or weaken at inopportune moments. That could at least balance him somewhat against the other archetypes, although he will still be a combat monster than will generally outperform all the others with the possible exception of the pure mages.

I do play a street level game myself, and I had to limit magic in the beginning to compensate for the lack of gear. However, once the game truly begin I will use the normal gear values for ware so that the only non-awakened has a chance. No one bothered with hacking though, probably due to the prices of decks.

I think gear bundles dependent on priority is a good idea that can be combined with the street level rules. The Street scum rules looked interesting, but also heavily favored the awakened (you can start with Magic 5). In my own game I capped Magic at 3, and slowly raised the cap until it reaches 6. Nuyen will also be similarly delayed, so the runners start dirt poor and with really weak Magic, yet has the chance to become a proper shadowrunner.
Ixal
As you already know your players, how important is optimization to them? The SR system allows for quite some monsters when minmaxed and it is good to know beforehand how far your players are likely to go.
hermit
QUOTE
That could at least balance him somewhat against the other archetypes, although he will still be a combat monster than will generally outperform all the others with the possible exception of the pure mages.

And so we have a mundane character who doesn't know their place in SR5 anymore. Outrageous!
GodForsaken
QUOTE (Ixal @ May 3 2016, 12:51 AM) *
As you already know your players, how important is optimization to them? The SR system allows for quite some monsters when minmaxed and it is good to know beforehand how far your players are likely to go.


They won't minmax. Mostly because they don't know the system good enough to do it, and they kinda count on me to introduce the rules to them (we are all 30+ with many responsibilities, so not all of us have the time to read the book). But, also because we as a group don't see it as fun. The theme of the game will be more like Neuromancer and Blade Runner, with complicated personalities rather then super powerful warriors. The story will most likely revolve around the characters' personal lives in addition to their jobs as Shadowrunners.

That being said I am sure they won't gimp themselves ether. Naturally the samurai will be strong and the decker will be smart.

Another question, I am thinking about using Splintered State as the first module (might twick it a bit to suit the power level of the group), but can you guys recommend on a module that will follow it? thought about using Lockdown or maybe fly them to Chicago and do the season 5 missions. But I am looking for something more solid with a cool overarching plot line.

Thanks again for your great comments so far, you gave me a lot of ideas!
Sengir
QUOTE (Tecumseh @ May 1 2016, 08:04 AM) *
3) The sample characters (p. 112 to 127) are so un-optimized that they may as well be street-level characters. (Notable exception: the street samurai, who is closer to Prime Runner than he is to Street Level.)

The sample characters also break at least three dozen rules and an equal number of entries is missing information like which rating a quality has. You should make sure your players are aware of this, otherwise players will at best simply not be able to make heads or tails of what they are reading, more likely they will implicitly make wrong assumptions about character generation which you'll have to fix in game (which is kinda unfun).
Glyph
there is a thread on the other forums that fixes the archetype errors and makes them legal. I would highly recommend it. Some archetypes only have minor mistakes, but some have major errors (the aforementioned street samurai who is 200,000+ over on resources, the combat mage whose Edge of 2 should actually be an Edge of 7, etc.).
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