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Mulcarn
20 years of fluff and mechanics slowly being eroded and flushed down the drain. Well that's more my fault for forgetting which edition I was playing. With that in mind lemme go delete two posts real quick.
Imladir
Just say you were manifested under our shoes or whatever. I don't like rollbacks :/
Mulcarn
You wouldn't notice the glowing ghost head peering through the floor as you were both talking? biggrin.gif
Imladir
You can find a solution I'm sure.
Mulcarn
Let me see what I can do after I get off from work tomorrow.
Mercy
What are we waiting for here?
Jack_Spade
Personally, I'm waiting for Sovereign and/or Nyx to report back, so Kynos can give his two cents and start getting creative about hurting the Alliance until they stop being arrogantly stupid.
Imladir
I'm waiting for Mulcarn / the situation in the car to be addressed.
Gilga
As far as I can say Ben left Nyx back where he picked her up - and the ball is in the players hand to decide how they progress next.
Imladir
Except that Sovereign may or may not have been able to hear what was said in the car, so the discussion may not have happened as it did.
Anyway, I'm waiting on confirmation one way or another.
Jack_Spade
Just received the message: Mulcarn has network problems at his place and has to wait for the repair man.
Kuirem
So that's why it was so calm lately biggrin.gif
Mulcarn
Alright i'm back and here is what happened as to why I was gone for so long. There was a construction crew doing some roofwork on one of the houses nearby to where I live. One of their trucks hit a power line when they were backing their truck up. Doing this, apparently, had knocked a few cables loose. Since the thirteenth I've been without phone and internet. Yesterday I was able to get somebody to actually come down and fix the damn thing. The only way I was able to talk to Jack was because there was a network that was unprotected that I was able to connect to.

Now, as soon as I can, I'll be able to make the changes I said I was going to do and get this show back on the road. I haven't been able to receive phone calls or check my email in a week. I need to make sure I have nothing work/personal related pending before I get started.
Gilga
Alright! so what is the verdict?
can astrally projecting mages hear conversations or not?
Note that it makes projection more powerful but this also goes for NPCs .
Imladir
It shouldn't.
But, I'm sure Mulcarn can find a solution to that. Like using a flea size watcher manifesting in the car and relaying the conversation or something.
Jack_Spade
Mulcarn mentioned just manifesting in the trunk and listening in that way.
Gilga
Right then I'll leave you to hash it out among you and report back to Casa (or to Ben - or do whatever)

when you want me to push the plot forward.
Mulcarn
Fixed my first post to have Sovereign eavesdrop while manifested in the trunk and removed the spoiler on the second post. From there i'll relay what's going on to the others awaiting Sovereign's return in the next post I make. Sorry this took so long but Time Warner Spectrum has been very unsympathetic to my previous dilemma.
Kuirem
Hey, just so we don't get into a deadlock, I'm waiting for Kynos and/or Sovereign reaction on what was said.
Jack_Spade
As far as I understood, this conversation was held outside the room where Kynos and Sovereign are
Imladir
It was, up to
QUOTE (Kuirem @ Jul 24 2017, 07:23 PM) *
That said Wheely join Simone in the room.

Kuirem
Yep seeing that there wasn't any reply I thought there was a misunderstanding, well the deadlock is cleaned now, back in action, hmm discussion at least.
Kuirem
Where is Ennui/Irris by the way? Might want to poke her character soon since my RCC is close to death.
Imladir
Disappeared in limbo on all her games.
Kuirem
Damn my 1-Matrix-Condition-Monitor-Box-RCC will never handle the shock if we have to face a Hacker mad.gif
Gilga
Some things to bring up which is strange as they com as OOC rather than IC but lets hash them in the open.
The plan to engage in even more violence makes a bunch of you guys uncomfortable/not enjoy the game. So we have this social problem between us where we need to find the right balance of diplomacy/violence to get the game going in a way where everyone is happy.


Some other OOC insight:
1. the reason Ben wanted to talk directly to you was to bribe you into leaving the building so that Finnegans get nothing.

2. Nyx refused that and Maxwell insulted him so he went to negotiate directly with the Finnegans figuring out that he cannot bribe you out of the building.

3. If you did start destroying property you are unlikely to gain any revenue from this run, yes you will get the lawyers released - but they'll sue you for the unrelated damages you caused and take your buissness. If you want to profit from this mission you have to understand that will not survive without being in good terms with the Alliance.

My own personal feeling is that I really like how Kynos and Maxwell resort to violence even if it is a bad option, I think that Nyx should have pointed the contract or called Casa for advice as to should they take it. I think that both characters could have been richer had they been less violent but this is who they are and they both paid a price for that approach. I think that they need to team up with the more 'reasonable' runners to prosper but the dynamics that we get is having them lay a path and have everyone else follow that path without feeling very happy about it.

I think that perhaps this can be solved with a bit of meta gaming (e.g. on skype) to discuss a bit where you'd like the story to go and then have the IC reflects that. E.g. if you decided that not everyone is happy with the violent case we can still have Max and Kynos support that but do it as if someone else has a compelling argument to move the plot in a different direction. All in all I try to give you complete freedom to be the criminals that you are and simply make you accountable when you misbehave.

E.g. Maxwell had quite a few people trying to kill him due to his behaviors and the trial of bodies he tends to leave behind - but as I said I am having a blast with telling a story where the runners do not go for optimal outcome - as long as OOC we are okay with that and accept that such an approach can have consequences.

I.e. A possible response I had in mind to you having take collateral is them taking out your cars to make you also feel the economic pain. So for example, Wheely might wanted to be more concerned that the line of direct violence may get him bankrupt and support settling for a deal.

So I do not have much of a message I do not think that there is a right or wrong way to play but I do want everyone to find their place and have fun and be happy with where the story is going.










Kuirem
Let's be blunt, Ben was a shabby negociator and that escalation of violence is partly on him (partly because we can't deny that Sovereign and Kynos are hot-blooded). First is his starting deal, he asked a team of runners to :
  1. Betray their employer
  2. Let themselves be captured
  3. All that for a "nice compensation in a week or two"

That's such a shady deal, we would have been entirely at their mercy if they decided to flag us as terrorist (which they already did) and deliver us to Lone Star. Plus he probably had some data on us, at least on Sovereign and should have known that there was no way he would have agreed on that.

After Nyx explain to him why it's impossible he doesn't really try to sweeten the deal, he does offer an even weaker deal where we can keep the farm for ourselves granted that we pay for the damage. All he does he making threats after threats while he isn't really in that strong of a position. It's especially true with how he handled the discussion with Sovereign, instead of trying to calm down the murderous mad mage he keep throwing threats.

Overall even though he claimed to be an ally/business partner he really didn't feel like it, that argument was just lost in the middle of his intimidation speech.

Last thing about Casa, I don't mind him butting in, as Wheely said it's weird that he didn't do anything sooner. We didn't contact him but we contacted Finestra which was the same for Wheely (maybe he thought wrongly). I'm not fan of the Deus ex machina though, he could have contacted us first to defuse the situation. Unless you are going further that just an instantaneous resolution?
Jack_Spade
First:
My apologies if Kynos appears as a violent bully. It's true that he has certain strengths and weaknesses that I deliberately play as such. But I have the feeling that every time I pull back and leave the initiative to the rest of the group we aren't really moving forward. I'd love to see Kynos challenged for his assumed command (Kynos actually hates being in a leadership position).
Kynos' murderous tendencies are tempered with his unrelenting loyalty to his chummers and contacts. That's the main reason he was ready to go to an all out war with the Alliance on the drop of a hat (you remember that he just let go everyone that surrendered, likewise he wouldn't have left Nyx behind if she really would have been take hostage)
IP and OP I'm more than willing to accept alternative solutions - provided they actually solve the stated problems and don't violate the loyalty part.

Second:
Yeah, it really was a raw deal with little to no appeal - especially after Sovereign killed the other team's mage (who, as per the introduction to this game, are supposed to be exceedingly rare)
Also it felt as if we were railroaded into a certain direction - namely taking care of the farm, to which Kynos would be incredibly unsuited.
Betraying our Johnson without him betraying us first was never in the cards, at least for me. I suspect that this was ultimately the reason this whole thing escalated as it did.

Kuirem
Until then there wasn't really a situation where Kynos loyalty was shown and that's why Wheely decided to go along (that and he might be a bit intimidated by Kynos).

Funny thing is that mages are not THAT rare if you believe the number from Forbidden Arcana. 50 mages for 10,000 people (not counting Sparks) that's 0.5% of the population. In comparison in 2013 there was 1 million physicians (counting inactive ones) for 316 millions people so 0.32%.

So yes mages are rare but I wouldn't say exceedingly rare.
Jack_Spade
In canon, yes.

But it was the premise of gilga's original game in the other forum that mages are that rare.
Mulcarn
Okay i'm finally back. My internet went out again. I've come back and noticed a lot has been said so i'll need to read through that all while I still have the chance.
Gilga
You might have noticed that I am a bit slowish to respond recently - busy RL. I hope that things will get in pace in the coming days.
Mulcarn
First off, let me apologize for my obtrusive absence. I promise it wasn't borne of apathy or negligence of the game but instead an untimely misadventure in the form of bureaucratic sloth at the hands of my internet provider. Words alone cannot express the absurdness of this blunder that I've found myself caught in. Nor can it do your frustrations any justice either since a simple dialogue could not be established with the current state of events. With that all said let me get straight to the point or at least close to it the following paragraph.

My intention and actions IC were not to go off the rails like a mad conductor and subsequently pigeon-hole everybody into one and only one set course of action. Kinda like how Kuirem had mentioned from above, Ben came off as a sleazy car salesman of a negotiator to me. The flyting he received from Sovereign was a way to express how Ben's negotiation tactics were blatantly underhanded in the aspect that it granted him and his employer complete control over the whole situation. Leaving us powerless and at their mercy, or more likely their reprisal. There was no incentive (no obvious one anyway) to agree to any of their conditions. It would utterly and ineffably discredit the shadowrun everyone had worked so hard for if any ground were given to them. At least, in my honest opinion.


Now, with that all said and done, that still leaves some form of resolution to be had on how we want to go about it now. If we want the simplest and most direct way to reach a decision then we can have a vote IC/OOC. A meeting of the minds could hath commence and this nightmarish faux pas will ultimately end. In other words, we move on new business.

Of course this might have already happened IC and in that case I might be a little late on the mark.
Mercy
Are we still doing this?
Gilga
Well - the reason you were contacted first was to give you an opertunity to double cross your employer- once you did not do that Casa directly.

It appears that we lost Nyx - but we can keep going if you guys are in.
Jack_Spade
Sure, but it seems Mulcarn is still inconvenienced by RL and I kinda need Sovereign's take on the whole "Get Strawberry onboard" affair.

Kynos and the mage have both some open accounts with the dryad...
Mulcarn
Let me get that squared away right now while I have the chance. I was supposed to be off work the past 4 days but was rescheduled due to my coworkers calling in sick or for some other reason.

In the event that you don't hear for me for a week or two straight without giving prior notice then assume that my internet has gone out, i'm in the hospital or i'm deceased. The last two may sound extreme and i'm usually wrong about my predictions but just in case the worst happens I don't want the rest of you kept waiting.
Imladir
Sorry, I've been trying to answer for a while now, but I never get very far. I've had the tab open for weeks now on my browser.
Everytime I'm trying, I'm already seeing how Maxwell or Kynos will just think speaking takes too long and decide to take matters in their own hands, like it happened with Ben in the car. Maybe that's unfair, but it doesn't really make things appealing.
Gilga
Well there is some clash of personalities IC - but I encourage you to try and hash them in character or out of character. I think that your character adds another dimension to the game and would be sad to see her go.
Mercy
Wow. OK, I had forgotten that we each got paid already for that. Do you remember how much it was?
Jack_Spade
Everyone received credsticks with 21.000 Nuyen on them (total).
Mulcarn
Sorry i've been absent again. Hurricane Harvey hit harder than I expected. Good news is that it didn't kill me. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Harvey

@Jack/Gilga - Can you let the guys know that i'm on the way in the other campaign.
Gilga
Guys, feel free to RP settling into your new safe house and invent Cobra members as you wish to make it richer. You can advance until the meeting with Andu or if you wish to directly go to the park with the spirit/send drones then do it.

Shout if you are waiting for me and I did not get it.
Mercy
lol I am actually waiting to see if anyone needs a ride. I am guessing Sovereign as I brought him here, but I do not know about anyone else. I believe that Wheely has his own vehicle, though.

I guess I should have read the IC first to see that Nyx does not need a ride. Are we assuming that our sniper has left us? Does Kynos need a ride?
Jack_Spade
Kynos does need a ride - it's the first thing he said to Simone in this conversation wink.gif
Kuirem
Yes Wheely has his vehicle, you might have missed it because it's hidden with Chameleon Coating biggrin.gif

It's been a while since the meet with the Brain Eaters so I'm not sure if I took they numbers or not, if I did we can probably skip using Sovereign as the middleman. As I said IC objective is to buy a flying drone (doesn't matter if it's a small or medium since it's to spy a large area rather than in a building) and find a teacher to skip the 1-day period to learn the skill rank 1 (If it's a good one maybe even get to rank 2-3 and if there is none I can always use a Tutorsoft).
Gilga
You can RP buying them from the Brain Eaters at 130% their book price (or from Horizion from 100% of the book price but with a paper trail).
Kuirem
Do they have anyone to teach and at what price/teaching level?
Gilga
R1 is just a day learning, assume they can find someone with 8 dice of instruction if you are strapped on time.
(Otherwise, Read the manual... )
I want to give you about a month of downtime after this run (which is 90% finished) to make sure you can spend your karma.
Kuirem
8 dice to teach will be more than enough to skip the day-learning, it's really just to avoid crashing it because Pilot Aircraft can't be defaulted.
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