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Mardegun
I am missing something or is building a host not described anyway?
Zeel De Mort
It's not described anywhere, at least not in SR3/Matrix etc. I have a sneaking suspicion that there might be something more about it in VR 2.0, but since I don't own that I couldn't tell you.

There was a thread about this a few months ago though I believe. Rest assured they're very expensive. smile.gif
TinkerGnome
You're talking a multi-million nuyen piece of computer hardware with quit a hefty amount in the IC you need to secure it. If you're the GM, though, there are tables in Matrix for putting a host together.
Kagetenshi
A host is different from a cyberterminal in much the same way that big iron is different from a personal computer.

~J
MrSandman666
At least today the difference between a server and a PC is pretty marginal. Yes, I know, the big computer farms as used by the ISPs are on a completely different scale but theoreticaly (and practically) any PC can be turned into a full fledged server. There's just slightly different demands (no need for good graphics but instead larger amounts of RAM and processing power, for example). Smaller companies use quite acceptable servers for somewhere between 1.000$ and 2.000$. Of course these are not made to handle hundreds or thousands of websites or the simultaneous traffic of a few thousand home-users but they can host a good handfull of websites quite decently.

This is probably what makes it hard to believe that it should be impossible for private persons in SR to buy/build a host, with computers becoming a couple magnitudes more powerfull and such...
Xirces
More importantly than that, IMO is that clustering is easily available.

Want a powerful server, then just stick two smaller ones together, if that needs upgrading just add another. Look at the idea behind blade servers. (There's some interesting work going on for next generation data centre level servers as well).

More than that, the idea of distributed computing is changing the way that these things are approached.

The notion of running a host should not be beyond a typical decker in 2060.

What's also important is that it's the client (ie, the deck) that performs the most intensive processing for ASIST etc. That's why THEY cost so much smile.gif
Nikoli
One of the largest price drivers for servers, speaking as a server technician, is the consistency of the prodect. If you look at a hard drive meant for enterprise use, it is on average going to have 10 times or more the service life on average. So, it costs more. Same reason why the government gets charged like a grand for a hammer, the manufacture builds within certain tolerances. in theory (for government contracts anyway) they make one, recalibrate the machine then make the next one. They don't but that's what they charge for. More like calibrate the machine, make 1000, calibrate the machine, make 1000, repeat. Then test the product. if 20% fall into government accepted tolerances, they get them, maybe another 40% fall into enterprise tolerances, they get those, the rest are sold for normal price.

But, those enterprise level tolerances are well worth it. they likely have a less than 1% failure rate over 5 years (I can't figure out the actuals from personal experience as I have not dealt with thouasands of units yet), that means you are buying fewer, so lower demand so higher price.
Of course, those coponents generally come with complete, no questions asked replacement policy over the course of 5 years or so, depending on the contract signed for parts. So, even if you have to replace the part 3 times (unlikely) you only pay the one time plus a minimal deductable is anything.
Kagetenshi
QUOTE (MrSandman666 @ May 23 2004, 05:24 AM)
At least today the difference between a server and a PC is pretty marginal.

I didn't say a server. I'm running a server on my four-year-old G4 downstairs. I said big iron. The difference is far from marginal.

Edit: and putting a bunch of little computers together does not equal a big computer. Clustering is fine and dandy for some tasks, but others will not speed up significantly no matter how many computers you throw at the problem.

~J
apple
Of course you can build or have a host in SR and it will beginn with some hundred Nuyen (perhaps even just 100) ... for that amount of money, you start with some Megapulse (10+), hostattributes of 8 and an Detection-ICE with a rating of 3 AFAIK ... => the Telecom, as described in the Sprawl Survival Guide. It is even described as a host for personal webpages IIRC.

I suppose, just for the feeling for the computerized world described in Matrix 3, Target: Matrix and Sprawl Survival Guide and for a little realism in SR, almost everything (yes, even the pocket/wrist computer or the cyberterminal) can act as a low-level-server/host, at least in 2D, if not in 3D-ASIST.

Of course, even if the rules do not consider it, there ist a incredible span between the power of a personal telecom/host and the Ares main host/server. Use common sense.

SYL
cykotek
The real question is: What do you want to do with your host? If you want a crappy blue host that anyone can walk into and do whatever they want without worrying about IC, then yes. 100 nuyen.gif at the local Rat-Shack will do the trick.

If you want something that's a little closer to a "real" host, then you're going to have to shell for better processing (mainly for better multi-tasking), more "RAM" (for IC), more storage memory, and then, the killer, start shelling for IC. Either write your own (harder than writing a simple Attack program, IMO), or buy it. If you can find a buyer. That's the real expense to a "real" host.
Camouflage
Well, the main use a PC-decker would have for a host would be to use it for programming. No outside connections, no IC, no nifty iconography, just pure processing capacity for your IDE.
TinkerGnome
It's probably easier to steal processing time on a Green-6 or the like. In fact, "stealing" processing power on your apartment's central computer isn't a half bad idea... I'll have to look into that one.
Kanada Ten
A host can run on any computer or computer network. It is not the hardware, but the software that makes a host.

One of the more interesting things to do with a host is "sand boxing" or creating Virtual Machines. This allows one powerful host to run multiple "lesser" hosts without allowing users to directly access the other hosts. Hackers can still access all hosts if they break through the VM. Using this technique allows individuals to afford web hosting as they don't have to buy all the memory, but rather rent 100 megs or so from their ISP. After all, the real host needs only one OS to run all the sandboxes.

This is a previous discussion about host creation.

[edit] I forgot why I started posting, but yeah, I think a decker could sand box a host to steal the processing power without letting anyone know what they were doing. The host must be VM enabled, but the decker could sandbox the actual host so that users think they are on the main host. Then they simply use the real host to perform their requests. Obviously one needs good decking skills.
Toptomcat
Here's another question- how do you destroy a host? What would the effects and Mp multiplier be for a program that affects the integrity of a host itself?
Kagetenshi
You can delete its software, but short of a built-in self-destruct mechanism you wouldn't be able to damage it without physically taking a [weapon of choice] to it.

~J
TinkerGnome
You can't even delete its software if that software is on OCC somewhere (and I'd wager that most of it is). You can certainly crash a host, but when it comes back up, the IC'll be back, etc.
Nath
QUOTE (apple)
Of course you can build or have a host in SR and it will beginn with some hundred Nuyen (perhaps even just 100) ... for that amount of money, you start with some Megapulse (10+), hostattributes of 8 and an Detection-ICE with a rating of 3 AFAIK ... => the Telecom, as described in the Sprawl Survival Guide. It is even described as a host for personal webpages IIRC.

QUOTE ("Sprawl Survival Guide page 120")
The minimal host inside a basic telecom computer is equivalent of a Blue-4 system with ACIFS 8/8/6/6/6 and a single Probe-2 IC program.
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