I know, look at me asking all these questions.
So, you can put smart links, etc, into contacts, right? just how many mods can you put into a single pair of contacts? what are the disadvantages of contacts over cyber eyes? advantages? it seems that, for the cost, contacts are ridiculously better than any other type of sight enhancement out there
Full Version: contacts
Availability is the main limitation, as every mod adds to the base Availability of the contacts/glasses themselves.
Currently, Availability is the only limiting factor. The more mods you put in, the higher the Availability goes... and at character creation, that's limited to Availability 12. That means you need at least two devices to get all the mods listed. Say, contact lenses and glasses.
Don't feel too bad if you've glossed over that limitation a few times. From what I've observed, quite a lot of people do it accidently, too. I've seen several starting characters with things like Rating 4 Fake SINs and Rating 4 Skillwires, too, both of which aren't available to starting characters under the standard system.
Don't feel too bad if you've glossed over that limitation a few times. From what I've observed, quite a lot of people do it accidently, too. I've seen several starting characters with things like Rating 4 Fake SINs and Rating 4 Skillwires, too, both of which aren't available to starting characters under the standard system.
So, as long as I don't break 12, which isn't too difficult, I didn't plan on putting all the mods available in there anyway, then buy a half dozen pairs, I'm good to go, right?
Also, since contacts are always wireless, what are the chances of some hacker turning off my image link and me losing my smart link capability?
Also, since contacts are always wireless, what are the chances of some hacker turning off my image link and me losing my smart link capability?
Yes, you're good to go.
For 50¥ you can place a Skinlink in any electronic device you have. Then it's just a matter of shutting down all your wireless connectivity to help avoid that kind of situation. But due to the nature of the PAN, if you have even one device going wireless, your entire network is basically at risk if anything connected to it is talking to that wireless device.
For 50¥ you can place a Skinlink in any electronic device you have. Then it's just a matter of shutting down all your wireless connectivity to help avoid that kind of situation. But due to the nature of the PAN, if you have even one device going wireless, your entire network is basically at risk if anything connected to it is talking to that wireless device.
| QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein @ Jul 30 2007, 11:57 AM) |
| ... Rating 4 Fake SINs and Rating 4 Skillwires, too, both of which aren't available to starting characters under the standard system. |
Rating 4 SINs are available at chargen according to the Errata.
Oh, and nothing says that you can't wear a pair of glasses over your contact lenses. 
| QUOTE (Fortune) |
| Rating 4 SINs are available at chargen according to the Errata. |
Bah. Too much to keep track of. Main point remains though.
The main advantage of cybereyes over contacts is that a mage needs cybereyes for targeting enemies that can only be seen with the vision enhancements. Unless your GM says that contacts can provide optical thermo, lowlight, vision mag, etc.
I thought contacts could provide all these enhancements? Contacts are listed right in line with all the other platforms (glasses, goggles, etc) that provide visual enhancements, with nothing stating that they are restricted to what type of enhancements they can handle
You're confusing two things, Penguin.
When targeting someone with spellcasting, you can pretty much only use natural or optical means for spotting your target. Most vision enhancements that you buy with Essence (such as Thermographic Vision) are treated as natural for you. If the vision enhancement is completely technological, like most enhancements for contacts, they're useless for spell targeting.
Note that Vision Magnification is available in an optical version for contacts and glasses and whatnot, allowing you to target spells with it. But the thermographic or low light options are not.
When targeting someone with spellcasting, you can pretty much only use natural or optical means for spotting your target. Most vision enhancements that you buy with Essence (such as Thermographic Vision) are treated as natural for you. If the vision enhancement is completely technological, like most enhancements for contacts, they're useless for spell targeting.
Note that Vision Magnification is available in an optical version for contacts and glasses and whatnot, allowing you to target spells with it. But the thermographic or low light options are not.
I so have no idea what you are saying. Its like I'm reading words, understanding them and they make no sense.
No worries, its not your fault, its 100% mine. I've avoided magic in SR like the plague.
Let me see if I got this.
If its a dark room and I want to shoot someone in the face with my Ares Predator IV I can use contacts with thermographic vision
If its a dark room and I want to shoot someone in the face with a lightning bolt I can't use contacts with thermographic vision, but CAN use cybereyes with thermographic vision?
(replace lightning bolt with whatever magic spell is applicable if lightning bolts are handled different or something)
No worries, its not your fault, its 100% mine. I've avoided magic in SR like the plague.
Let me see if I got this.
If its a dark room and I want to shoot someone in the face with my Ares Predator IV I can use contacts with thermographic vision
If its a dark room and I want to shoot someone in the face with a lightning bolt I can't use contacts with thermographic vision, but CAN use cybereyes with thermographic vision?
(replace lightning bolt with whatever magic spell is applicable if lightning bolts are handled different or something)
In a nutshell, yes, that's exactly it.
| QUOTE (l33tpenguin) |
| I so have no idea what you are saying. Its like I'm reading words, understanding them and they make no sense. No worries, its not your fault, its 100% mine. I've avoided magic in SR like the plague. Let me see if I got this. If its a dark room and I want to shoot someone in the face with my Ares Predator IV I can use contacts with thermographic vision If its a dark room and I want to shoot someone in the face with a lightning bolt I can't use contacts with thermographic vision, but CAN use cybereyes with thermographic vision? (replace lightning bolt with whatever magic spell is applicable if lightning bolts are handled different or something) |
You can shoot your Predator with thermo-contacts with no penalties.
You can fire a spell at some guy with thermo-contacts at the same penalties as if you don't have them(they do not count for spellcasting) but may do so without if your had them as cyber-eyes.
Basically, the reason is that you need magical LOS to your target in order to cast a Direct Combat spell such as Manabolt, and electronic vision enhancements can not give you magical LOS, otherwise you would be able to use a trid to fry people from across the world.
However, anything paid for with Essence becomes part of your Pattern and as thus a natural part of you, which in the case of cybereyes (Including ones installed in the palm of your hand.) allows magical LOS.
By-the-way Lighting Bolt is an indirect combat spell, and they can affect things not in you LOS.
However, anything paid for with Essence becomes part of your Pattern and as thus a natural part of you, which in the case of cybereyes (Including ones installed in the palm of your hand.) allows magical LOS.
By-the-way Lighting Bolt is an indirect combat spell, and they can affect things not in you LOS.
That's the deal.
A mage has to have LOS to target something. That is, they have to see it. However, they have to see it with their own eyes. They can't use video cameras, electronic megnification, or anything else. Binoculars of the old school variety are OK, though, because they don't alter the image, merely redirecting the light to the eyes. Mirroros are good to go as well. If it's optical enhancement, it works for magic. If it's any other kind of enhancement, than it doesn't.
Cybereyes are the exception to that, because after you pay essence for them, they ARE the mages eyes.
So lets say you are a mage with thermo contacts. You can target anything you can see normally, you can see things thermographically, but you CANNOT target anything you see thermographically unless you see it normally as well.
A mage has to have LOS to target something. That is, they have to see it. However, they have to see it with their own eyes. They can't use video cameras, electronic megnification, or anything else. Binoculars of the old school variety are OK, though, because they don't alter the image, merely redirecting the light to the eyes. Mirroros are good to go as well. If it's optical enhancement, it works for magic. If it's any other kind of enhancement, than it doesn't.
Cybereyes are the exception to that, because after you pay essence for them, they ARE the mages eyes.
So lets say you are a mage with thermo contacts. You can target anything you can see normally, you can see things thermographically, but you CANNOT target anything you see thermographically unless you see it normally as well.
| QUOTE (Ravor) |
| Basically, the reason is that you need magical LOS to your By-the-way Lighting Bolt is an indirect combat spell, and they can affect things not in you LOS. |
You are thinking Ball Lightning perhaps?
No sense confusing him. He's already stated that he's not very familiar with all the minor details of the magic system yet.
In the end, this is only a concern for magicians. If you're not playing a magician, contacts and glasses are pretty much just as good for you as a pair of cybereyes are. There's secondary concerns (such as having someone steal your glasses), but the meat and bones mechanics for using them are identical for non-magicians.
In the end, this is only a concern for magicians. If you're not playing a magician, contacts and glasses are pretty much just as good for you as a pair of cybereyes are. There's secondary concerns (such as having someone steal your glasses), but the meat and bones mechanics for using them are identical for non-magicians.
No, I'm applying the same Magical Theory that allows Fireballs to fry people outside of LOS because they are indirect combat spells to Lightingbolt, Flamedart, and the rest, namely that you only need LOS to the point in space where you create the flame/electricy/whatever and send it flying along its merry little way.
Yeah... so.. this is why I prefer to shoot things. wow.
So, I have a question, that has probably already been answered.
If I'm a mage and I have cybereyes with the eye drone thing, where the cyber eye can be removed and controlled like a drone (I swear I read this, but if I'm making up stuff let me know) could I blast something in another room since I technically have LOS to it? If this is answered in the book, I apologize for asking. I'm on a 12 hour shift and don't have my books with me so have no way of checking for myself
So, I have a question, that has probably already been answered.
If I'm a mage and I have cybereyes with the eye drone thing, where the cyber eye can be removed and controlled like a drone (I swear I read this, but if I'm making up stuff let me know) could I blast something in another room since I technically have LOS to it? If this is answered in the book, I apologize for asking. I'm on a 12 hour shift and don't have my books with me so have no way of checking for myself
| QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein @ Jul 29 2007, 11:17 PM) |
| No sense confusing him. He's already stated that he's not very familiar with all the minor details of the magic system yet. In the end, this is only a concern for magicians. If you're not playing a magician, contacts and glasses are pretty much just as good for you as a pair of cybereyes are. There's secondary concerns (such as having someone steal your glasses), but the meat and bones mechanics for using them are identical for non-magicians. |
Thanks
I'm learning, though. As for theft, thats why I've decided on contacts, but just wanted to make sure they were as useful as cyber eyes. for all intents and purposes, I feel that if someone is going to go to the extent to remove contacts, they are the same people that would remove a cyber eye
| QUOTE |
| The FAQ is your friend |
ha, yes, I know. didn't think about checking it, this question kinda came about in the course of this thread.
No you can't, you lose magical LOS the moment the drone leaves your eyesocket and starts transmitting over the wireless.
You could however implant a cybereye in your palm (Or the end of a tail.) and use it to peek around a corner.
You could however implant a cybereye in your palm (Or the end of a tail.) and use it to peek around a corner.
(only if the tail was under your concious control)
Well yeah, I figured that went without saying.
So, a mage could light someone up by peeking in on them in the shower through an eye drone connected directly through a fiber optic cable?
No, she'd need Mage Sight Googles, which are really close to your idea.
| QUOTE (Shadowrun Fourth Edition; page 324) |
| These heavy goggles are connected to a myomeric rope (p. 329) wrapped around a fiberoptic cable that ends in an optical lens. The rope is available in lengths of 10, 20, or 30 meters. |
| QUOTE (Fortune) |
| Oh, and nothing says that you can't wear a pair of glasses over your contact lenses. |
Nothing says that you can not wear a pair of "over the glasses" goggles over glasses that are over contact lenses. :double wink:
If you've already got an image link, then everything else is just somewhere to cram sensors isn't it? They don't neccesarily have to go over the eyes.
| QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein) |
| Yes, you're good to go. For 50¥ you can place a Skinlink in any electronic device you have. Then it's just a matter of shutting down all your wireless connectivity to help avoid that kind of situation. But due to the nature of the PAN, if you have even one device going wireless, your entire network is basically at risk if anything connected to it is talking to that wireless device. |
...I was under the impression that Contacts were the only vision aid that would not accept a skinlink since no part of the lens actually contacts the skin itself.
skinlink is a misnomer. it is, in fact, your body's bioelectric field or some such thing. i see no reason why your eyes wouldn't have that same field, though i am admittedly not thoroughly educated in that area.
Hope those contacts doesn't fall in the middle of a run...
Yeah, you don't even need DMSO-poison in your cybersquirt. Just shoot the cybersam in the face with tap water to wash out his contacts. "Gah, I'm blind!"
| QUOTE (Chrome Shadow) |
| Hope those contacts doesn't fall in the middle of a run... |
They only will if the GM decides they do (probably on a Critical Glitch relating to the eyes or head in some fashion). They're no more prone to spontaneously falling off your character than anything else is.
| QUOTE (Jaid) |
| skinlink is a misnomer. it is, in fact, your body's bioelectric field or some such thing. i see no reason why your eyes wouldn't have that same field, though i am admittedly not thoroughly educated in that area. |
...I was certain there was something in the rules that contacts could only be wireless.. Unfortunately I am at work right now & do not have my book available.
Here's another big drawback to contacts for mages: they blind them to astral perception! By the Rules As Written, a mage can not astrally perceive through any inanimate object even if that object is normally transparent in the real world. Therefore, a mage can not astrally perceive past a window, glasses, or even contacts.
There is a loophole that says if the transparent object was somehow emotionally charged with "transparent-ness", then the object would retain its transparentness in the astral. One example is a widow who pines for years forlornly looking out a window waiting for her husband to return would imbue the window with astral transparentness.
There would be a huge market for contacts, glasses, and windows that have been imbued with astral transparentness. I imagine black market "factories" where people are lowered into dark rooms full of chained rabid pitbulls. The people would only be able to navigate through the room with thermal glasses and contacts. They would be so happy with the ability to see through the glasses, after multiple people have been through the gauntlet, the emotional charge would make the glasses and contacts astrally transparent.
Personally, I think the astrally opaque glasses rule is a really stupid rule and I hope it's gone by SR5, but there it is.
There is a loophole that says if the transparent object was somehow emotionally charged with "transparent-ness", then the object would retain its transparentness in the astral. One example is a widow who pines for years forlornly looking out a window waiting for her husband to return would imbue the window with astral transparentness.
There would be a huge market for contacts, glasses, and windows that have been imbued with astral transparentness. I imagine black market "factories" where people are lowered into dark rooms full of chained rabid pitbulls. The people would only be able to navigate through the room with thermal glasses and contacts. They would be so happy with the ability to see through the glasses, after multiple people have been through the gauntlet, the emotional charge would make the glasses and contacts astrally transparent.
Personally, I think the astrally opaque glasses rule is a really stupid rule and I hope it's gone by SR5, but there it is.
| QUOTE (Kyoto Kid) |
| ...I was certain there was something in the rules that contacts could only be wireless.. |
Not that I have found.
Eh, Astral Perception isn't really vision, although it's most commonly described that way, and if a Mage can still use it after I've plucked out her eyes then I very much doubt a pait of contacts or even glasses would hinder it either.
| QUOTE (Ravor) |
| No you can't, you lose magical LOS the moment the drone leaves your eyesocket and starts transmitting over the wireless. You could however implant a cybereye in your palm (Or the end of a tail.) and use it to peek around a corner. |
| QUOTE (PlatonicPimp) |
| (only if the tail was under your concious control) |
| QUOTE (Ravor) |
| Well yeah, I figured that went without saying. |
Ha-ha, you guys. I guess I deserved that. I totally agree I should have used an example that the eye was duct-taped to the back of your helmet, or your boot, or...
I was also thinking the SURGE tail with complete control over the cybernetic balance tail, but that's my fault.
On topic, I've worn contacts for a long, long time. There's a number of downsides to them most people don't know about.
Smoke: Getting smoke in your eyes (or anything, really) is a pain with contacts. Not only can it cause vision impairment, it can dry the lens out. A contact lens that has gotten gummy and is stuck to your eyeball is a truly disturbing situation to find yourself in.
Debris: if you manage to get something in your eye, it's a pain. But if it's small enough to slip under the contact, it becomes a sensation not unlike sand in your eyes. All you can do is blink furiously.
Rotation/slippage: This makes me wonder about some of the 'custom' contacts out there you see, the ones with the color-enhancing ring (make your eyes BLUER) or the odd ones like the spirals, etc. Contacts slip around. All that really matters is that they stay mostly centered, but I wonder how data is displayed on a round lens that can rotate or slide. Hell, I had a lens slip under my upper eyelid for an hour when I first got them.
Dryness: if you're in a car for long periods of time, or other air conditioned area, your lenses can dry out. Eyedrops of course are the easy, quick fix for this. But I don't imagine your average Shadowrunner is going to want to blow a combat action putting eyedrops in...
Aye, I used to wear contacts as well before getting my eyes fixed and for those very reasons I make it very plain in my games that only spies without cybereyes actually use non-corrective contacts even in 2070.
However whenever I mention it several people pop up and tell me about how they can wear their contacts for weeks at a time with no hassles at all and that I'm being unreasonable.
However whenever I mention it several people pop up and tell me about how they can wear their contacts for weeks at a time with no hassles at all and that I'm being unreasonable.
My current contacts are in their 2nd week of usage and I've been to 2 construction sites with them and it's been fine. You probably have a Negative Quality, munchkin you.
Mmm, I wonder if it was worth enough BP to be able to afford Latent Awakening? 
*Edit*
If so I really hope they get decent cybereyes on teh market before I Awaken so I don't take the Magic hit.
*Edit*
If so I really hope they get decent cybereyes on teh market before I Awaken so I don't take the Magic hit.
| QUOTE (Ravor) |
| Aye, I used to wear contacts as well before getting my eyes fixed... |
Hey so did I! Transhumanism FTW!
| QUOTE (Ravor) |
| Mmm, I wonder if it was worth enough BP to be able to afford Latent Awakening? *Edit* If so I really hope they get decent cybereyes on teh market before I Awaken so I don't take the Magic hit. |
But won't your total magic still be affected? That is if you had 1.1 Essence in 'wares and you start out with Magic 1 you'd have an effective Magic 0 right?
| QUOTE (Street Magic; page 25) |
| When the gamemaster decides the character has Awakened, the character immediately gains a Magic attribute of 1. If the character has an Essence lower than 6 (due to implants or other causes), he still starts with a Magic of 1, but his maximum Magic attribute is adjusted according to the Essence loss. If the character’s Essence is less than 1, he has lost any chance to be Awakened. |
Nope, looks like I could fit in that left cyberleg I've always wanted as well.
Seriously though, between the buying back burnt Edge rules and this one, I think that it should become standard that lossing Essence doen't actually affect your current Magic, just your max Magic.
| QUOTE (toturi) |
| My current contacts are in their 2nd week of usage and I've been to 2 construction sites with them and it's been fine. You probably have a Negative Quality, munchkin you. |
Wow, that's crazy.. I think you have a positive quality or something, because scraping the acoustic popcorn crap of a decent sized closet, even with eyeprotection left me with drywall dust in my eyes.
When I got home and could see the drywall dust eyeboogers, I ditched that pair of lenses ASAP.
Of course YMMV on lenses, I've known people who claimed they could wear extended wear lenses for a month. But when the lens starts feeling gritty.. I don't enjoy it and just take them out for a day or three.
But yeah, most people don't know what lenses can mean in terms of discomfort.
Tear gas and runners with advanced optics in their contacts equals totally screwed runners.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.