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torzzzzz
rotfl.gif

I don't know if i am looking too much into this but, i have a player who is playing a shaman with a totem of a snake....... simple but let me put this to your view, if a snake which as you all know is a reptile and say go's to alaska this would have some affect on it as they need heat to function. i know the totem is the spirt and not the living thing ( well depends on how you look on it but..) surely it would have aversion to cold? i cant see anything anywhere that clarifies this. it's kind of important as there next run will take them to climates a colder and i want to know if the character would take penalties?


any surgestions would be great!

thanks

torz x
Kagetenshi
I'd say suggest to the player the possibility of playing up being irritable, sluggish, tired, and heat-seeking, and not actually add any game effects.

~J
Backgammon
Uh, humans also need heat to survive. So if the shaman goes out butt naked in the cold, his totem will be pleased to see him adequately uphold Snake by dying frozen. And if the shaman gets the crazy idea of wearing a coat, Snake will also be pleased to see that he upholds the proper ideals by staying warm. wink.gif
hahnsoo
*Astrally Projects in a snowy landscape* Hello?
*A watcher vaguely in the form of a snake slithers up* I'm sorry, your totem cannot take your request as dialed. She is currently vacationing in Fiji. Would you like to leave a message?
Kagetenshi
QUOTE (Backgammon)
Uh, humans also need heat to survive.

Humans don't need heat, they generate their own. What they need is to not lose heat too quickly smile.gif

(Or too slowly, for that matter)

~J
U_Fester
Ahhh, the benefit to being a mamal
torzzzzz
sarcastic.gif

QUOTE
Humans don't need heat, they generate their own. What they need is to not lose heat too quickly



My point exactly i dident meen in the actual but just wanted to know the effects if any on the magic ability!

torz x
Crimsondude 2.0
QUOTE (Kagetenshi @ Feb 15 2005, 12:43 PM)
I'd say suggest to the player the possibility of playing up being irritable, sluggish, tired, and heat-seeking, and not actually add any game effects.

~J

I'd also suggest that along with the above the shaman should not stop bitching the entire time about how cold it is, even moreso than what would usually be expected.

Kind of like how loudly and frequently your Seattle runners would complain about walking around Phoenix in October when it was 97 degrees before noon.
CanvasBack
There are actually snakes in Alaska (southern regions obviously). I doubt they do much complaining though... biggrin.gif
Crimsondude 2.0
Indeed.

There's also a snow snake in PAoNA (pp.150-51) with a range that extends, from what I can tell looking at the map, past the Arctic Circle.
Sandoval Smith
QUOTE (torzzzzz)
sarcastic.gif

My point exactly i dident meen in the actual but just wanted to know the effects if any on the magic ability!

torz x

No effects on magic.

Checking the description for Cobra, Python, and Snake, weather has no effect on the shaman.
Charon
I thought Jamaican Shamans were houngan, not shamons?

wink.gif
Shockwave_IIc
QUOTE (torzzzzz)
rotfl.gif

I don't know if i am looking too much into this but, i have a player who is playing a shaman with a totem of a snake....... simple but let me put this to your view, if a snake which as you all know is a reptile and say go's to alaska this would have some affect on it as they need heat to function.

I'd say you've been playing to much Metal Gear Solid, and have the Conversation Between Vulcan Raven and Snake stuck in your head.
Sandoval Smith
QUOTE (Charon)
I thought Jamaican Shamans were houngan, not shamons?

wink.gif

They're hougan if they're following the loa instead of a traditional totem.
Charon
QUOTE (Sandoval Smith @ Feb 15 2005, 03:59 PM)
QUOTE (Charon @ Feb 15 2005, 03:41 PM)
I thought Jamaican Shamans were houngan, not shamons?

wink.gif

They're hougan if they're following the loa instead of a traditional totem.

Hmm. I'm affraid you didn't get it, mon.

biggrin.gif

(Sorry, been reading Futurama comics)
Tanka
QUOTE (Charon)
QUOTE (Sandoval Smith @ Feb 15 2005, 03:59 PM)
QUOTE (Charon @ Feb 15 2005, 03:41 PM)
I thought Jamaican Shamans were houngan, not shamons?

wink.gif

They're hougan if they're following the loa instead of a traditional totem.

Hmm. I'm affraid you didn't get it, mon.

biggrin.gif

(Sorry, been reading Futurama comics)

Ja, mon. grinbig.gif
The Question Man
If the PC isn't playing his Totem he looses his Totem bonuses and if it persists his Magic.

A Snake/Reptile Shaman in cold wheather should suffer a +2 Modifier to all Active Actions and +4 for things like Percetion Rolls, B/R, etc... Long Action Skills.

Cheers

QM
Tanka
QUOTE (The Question Man)
If the PC isn't playing his Totem he looses his Totem bonuses and if it persists his Magic.

A Snake/Reptile Shaman in cold wheather should suffer a +2 Modifier to all Active Actions and +4 for things like Percetion Rolls, B/R, etc... Long Action Skills.

Cheers

QM

Why penalize for being cold? Nowhere in canon does it say to do that.

Snake is quizzical by nature. It needs to know every secret, whilst remaining secretive.
Nikoli
Shamons?

They channel the spirit of Michael Jackson?
The Question Man
QUOTE (tanka)
QUOTE (The Question Man @ Feb 15 2005, 04:35 PM)
If the PC isn't playing his Totem he looses his Totem bonuses and if it persists his Magic.

A Snake/Reptile Shaman in cold wheather should suffer a +2 Modifier to all Active Actions and +4 for things like Percetion Rolls, B/R, etc... Long Action Skills.

Cheers

QM

Why penalize for being cold? Nowhere in canon does it say to do that.

Snake is quizzical by nature. It needs to know every secret, whilst remaining secretive.

"IF" the PC isn't Role Playing his Totem.

Sorry I wasn't more clear.

QM
Fortune
In Shadowrun, following a Totem is, in effect, following an ideal or set of ideals. It isn't emulating a particular creature's habits. Snake is idealized as an inquisitive healer. There should be no reason to penalize the character for any type of environmental conditions unless those conditions are an integral part of the idealized Totem.
kevyn668
QUOTE (Nikoli)
Shamons?

They channel the spirit of Michael Jackson?

rotfl.gif

I'd vote for the shaman being captian grumpy pants. IRL, though, I bitch and moan constantly during winter. Maybe I have SAD...
Crimson Jack
Further... IF he isn't roleplaying his totem, he loses potential karma. He doesn't suffer target mods.
Kanada Ten
QUOTE (Crimson Jack)
Further... IF he isn't roleplaying his totem, he loses potential karma. He doesn't suffer target mods.

He loses Magical power as well. A Totem is the source of one's magic and can revoke that power if one strays from the path.
Moonstone Spider
I agree with Fortune. If Totems were really that closely related to the listed creature's nature why is Snake a healer in the first place? Exactly how many snakes have you seen with healing powers? None. Same with Bears.

Snake is probably a healing totem just because the traditional symbol of medicine in the US has a snake on it, symbolic of Moses' Copper Serpent in the bible.
Crimson Jack
QUOTE (Kanada Ten)
QUOTE (Crimson Jack @ Feb 15 2005, 09:38 PM)
Further... IF he isn't roleplaying his totem, he loses potential karma.  He doesn't suffer target mods.

He loses Magical power as well. A Totem is the source of one's magic and can revoke that power if one strays from the path.

Hmm, what I meant by that is if the character is technically following the parameters of the totem, just not getting into how sluggish a snake might feel in the snow, he won't suffer target number modifiers in-game. He suffers losing potential good karma for the actual theatrics of the whole ordeal, or lack thereof.

And GM's shouldn't revoke power without a really good reason. "You're in snow," is no reason to take away someone's power. "You're in snow and you're not acting the way a snake would," is likewise not a good reason to take away a character's power. Not adhering to what's in the totem advantages/disadvantages section is what should determine this. Part of the roleplaying, but not exclusive to roleplaying the totem.
hahnsoo
QUOTE (Moonstone Spider)
I agree with Fortune. If Totems were really that closely related to the listed creature's nature why is Snake a healer in the first place? Exactly how many snakes have you seen with healing powers? None. Same with Bears.

Snake is probably a healing totem just because the traditional symbol of medicine in the US has a snake on it, symbolic of Moses' Copper Serpent in the bible.

I wasn't aware that the Ancient Greeks read the Bible. The traditional US medical symbol is the caduceus which has two intertwined snakes on a winged staff, and is from mediterranean/Greek mythos.
Kanada Ten
QUOTE (Crimson Jack @ Feb 15 2005, 10:15 PM)
He suffers losing potential good karma for the actual theatrics of the whole ordeal, or lack thereof.

Ah, my mistake.
Crimson Jack
It's okay. I wasn't very clear on that. smile.gif
toturi
Does a Mouse Shaman run and hide in a hole in the wall every time he reads a Garfield comic?
Eyeless Blond
No, but from some of these guy's statements he should lose his spellcasting ability if he doesn't.
Kanada Ten
Wow, is it your reading comp skills dropping or mine?
Eyeless Blond
Probably mine. I just find it surprising that people would ever think that a shaman's totem was linked to the associated animal's typical physical limitations. Something like that just never occured to me; I've always sort of assumed that the totem was more of a life philosophy than an actual animal.
Crimson Jack
You're correct to think so.
Eyeless Blond
I sure hope so. It would be really awkward if my decker/Snake shamanist had to either pretend he didn't have fingers with which to type, or lose all his magical abilities.
Crimson Jack
I would hate to think of what a shark shaman would have to go through to run the shadows successfully. biggrin.gif
hahnsoo
However, this isn't to say that the totem wouldn't appreciate some emulation now and then... the most sincere form of flattery, as they say.
torzzzzz
grinbig.gif

The whole reasion this came about is because i have a cat shamon and it takes -1 to magic if dirty and i was just looking into the effects to outher totem if they had something / situation that affected them ie/ snake in the cold. if the cat tkes penaltys becaues they dont like being dirty the why dose a snake not for being cole? as reptiles do need heat to function ( well most of them ). or will the PC have to pick what varity of snake his totem is? i know its all theory but it gives it a bit of indepth if you know what i meen!



torz x
Fortune
QUOTE (torzzzzz)
if the cat tkes penaltys becaues they dont like being dirty the why dose a snake not for being cole?


Because the Cat Shaman's penalty is part and parcel of the idealised image of Cat as a Totem, just as going berserk is the idealised negative of Bear. Since the idealised image of Snake does not include any such limitation as to environment, there is no penalty for the Shaman.
rlemansky
Greetings.

While hiking through the snowy woods, I came upon Snake, slowly freezing to death. I picked him up, tucked him in my shirt, next to the skin, and continued on my Journey. I felt him start to move around as the heat from my body warmed him. I then felt a sharp pain in the chest as Snake bit me. As I lay dying, I asked 'Why did you do that? Do you realize that now we'll both perish?'

And Snake said 'You knew I was Sanke when you picked me up.'

Sorry about that.

R
Sandoval Smith
.... right.

I much prefer the original with the scorpion, the frog, and the flood anyway.

Cat shamans get the penalty because being meticulous like that, as has been said, is part of the idealized image of Cat. Just like Unicorn shamans, with the ideal of purity, suffer double essence loss if they sully themselves with cyberware.
Zephania
QUOTE (Sandoval Smith)

Checking the description for Cobra, Python, and Snake, weather has no effect on the shaman.

I like the idea of cobra or python shamans, are there seperate totems or is it all snake?
Sandoval Smith
Cobra is stealthy and dangerous, hypnotizing her prey to bring them close. She is slow to make a choice, but her moves are deliberate and she does not compromise. She deals on her own terms and does not like being surprised. Cobra cannot fight
to stun. She will either abstain from fighting or go straight for the kill.

Ad: +2 dice to combat and illusion spells, +1 die for jungle (forest) spirits

Disad: If surprised, a Cobra shaman adds a +1 modifier to all target numbers for the remainder of that combat.
--------------

Python is slow and ponderous. Neither clever nor swift, he possesses enormous strength and recuperative powers and is merciless once he gains the upper hand. He is peaceful but unforgiving if provoked. He can also use his singular power of will to dominate others

Ad: +2 dice for health and control manipulation spells, +2 dice for jungle (forest) spirits

Disad: A Python shaman must make a successful Willpower (6) Test to break off combat or any other sustained activity.
--------------

Snake is wise and knows many secrets. She is a good councillor, but always exacts a price fortheir advice. Snake shamans are pacifists; they only fight to protect themselves and others. Snake shamans are obsessed with learning secrets and
take great risks to do so. They trade their knowledge to others for whatever they can get in exchange.

Ad: +2 dice for detection, health and illusion spells. As a wilderness totem, +2 dice for any one spirit of the land (shaman's choice). As an urban totem, +2 dice for any one spirit of man (shaman's choice).

Disad: -1 die for all spells cast during combat
Zephania
Awsome thanks for the help, its amazing how a few specifics can help round out a character especially as I'm a big fan of illusion magic.
torzzzzz
QUOTE
Because the Cat Shaman's penalty is part and parcel of the idealised image of Cat as a Totem, just as going berserk is the idealised negative of Bear. Since the idealised image of Snake does not include any such limitation as to environment, there is no penalty for the Shaman.



yes fortune i understand that but i just would have thoght something of that nature would have been factord in for snakes that all. I meen for something so important in a life style, i mean cat wouldent live in a slum!


torz x spin.gif
Sandoval Smith
A cat would live in a slum if they had to (just think a bit about strays), but they'd still somehow manage to keep themself neat while doing it. Look at the descriptions I posted above for Cobra, Python, and Snake. The followers of those totems will (in nearly all cases) have personalities that very closely fit the description of those totems. Cat's personality is to be meticulous, in control, and put together. Being messed up or dirty is contrary to being meticulous and in control, and thus violates those precepts of the totem. Temprature has absolutely nothing to do with any of the concepts of Snake, so low tempratures won't affect his magic. It might be in character for the PC to bundle up, and start comulsively sticking close to any large sources of heat, but that's just role playing that should have no effect of the mechanics of the game.
Crimson Jack
QUOTE (rlemansky)
Greetings.

While hiking through the snowy woods, I came upon Snake, slowly freezing to death. I picked him up, tucked him in my shirt, next to the skin, and continued on my Journey. I felt him start to move around as the heat from my body warmed him. I then felt a sharp pain in the chest as Snake bit me. As I lay dying, I asked 'Why did you do that? Do you realize that now we'll both perish?'

And Snake said 'You knew I was Sanke when you picked me up.'

Sorry about that.

R

Aesop, is that you...?
DrJest
QUOTE (Charon)
I thought Jamaican Shamans were houngan, not shamons?

wink.gif

It's all good, all the time
torzzzzz
biggrin.gif

ok all as this has gone into a debate about what should and should not affect a totem i am going to stop this one and start an new thread if you want to continue please see the following.


totem
what do you think?


thanks

torz x grinbig.gif
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