I know you said first line, but nothing contradicts the first sentence so it still stands. Regardless of whether or not spells are specifically stated to have limitations, sorcery in general has harsher limitations. If you can find a way to use spells without sorcery, you can use the second set of limitations.
~J
Full Version: On my Board
I wonder about Dragons and powerful spirits (and even animals with spell like effects). Is the way they use spells sufficiently different from sorcery to work around those limitations.
| QUOTE (Kagetenshi) | ||||
The first sentence is unqualified. Sorcery cannot affect the fabric of space and time. Not sorcery cannot directly affect, nor sorcery cannot affect much. Conjuring is good to go, however. ~J |
And we solved the whole problem. OMG it's too simple we need to learn to conjure each other.
please don't take this seriously
| QUOTE (Pthgar) |
| I wonder about Dragons and powerful spirits (and even animals with spell like effects). Is the way they use spells sufficiently different from sorcery to work around those limitations. |
Indeed, same as IEs. They aren't hermetic, shamanic, houngan, wujen or anything akin to them. They are their own magic system.
And, as has been spoken of, chances are good it's something they remember from the 4th World. Our magic is limited to the restrictions placed on our world by ourselves (in game, 'natch).
Personally, if he wants all the stuff he keeps posting about (stupidhard traps to get out of, teleportation and other physics-breaking stuff, et cetera), he should try the Urban Arcana setting of d20Modern. All the stuff from D&D with all the tech from today!
All in a system that is just much simplier. But its WotC, and they are the evil empire!
| QUOTE (Lindt) |
| All in a system that is just much simplier. But its WotC, and they are the evil empire! |
A subsidiary of Hasbro, the Megacorp Evil Empire ™.
teh evul omg!!1!!!!!
Wow. I swear, I would sig that verbal beating Digo got if I could.
I sometimes get a bit long winded when the opportunity arises. Sorry. Makes for bad sigging.
It did need to be said.
"Sometimes I worry about you folks?"
"Sometimes I worry about you folks?"
| QUOTE (Little Bill) |
| Wow. At first I thought "canon" might be too loaded a term to use on this discussion board. Now I think it fits right in with the frenzied paroxysms of zealotry that many of the people on the forum seem to work themselves into at the slightest sign that someone may not be paying attention to all the rules. Woe be to the Newbie who posts house rules without clearly labelling them "HOUSE RULES"! *snip* |
Slightest sign? One of his posts talks about how he wants to run "Harlequin's Back" with the PCs playing his own homebrew Djinn race, which can start with some of the assorted stats at 20. That would be notably powerful for a D20 game, much less Shadowrun, not to mention that before doing Harlequin's back, he wanted to run them through "Grimtooth's Dungeon of Doom." It took him a post or two after the fact to explain some comments in my 'shifter thread were from how his game where some of Whitewolf's material was being used instead. Not to mention the nonstandard karma rules. Essentially, the more we've been hearing about his game, the less sure we are of where he's coming from.
Then there is the completely random stuff like, 'Turn to Goo' somehow making stuff explode.
You can do whatever you want with your own game, and it's not that we demand everything non-canon prefaced with "house rule," but we need some sort of idea what's going on. When a game seems to be a mixture of SR, D20, WoD, and possibly Rifts, we need some sort of baseline to understand what we're seeing. Teleportation has been pretty much stated as 'not going to happen,' for SR, but not in his game. I'll say that a lot of the posts have been a little high on the ardor, but I don't think that's completly unwarranted.
Although, it does seem to me that tanka's sig is pretty appropriate right now.
I don't really care what he does in his games. My problem with him is that he refuses to acknowledge that what he plays is so house-ruled it can barely be called Shadowrun any more. He calls the books house rules, and claims his is the way to play, and those of us who blind ourselves by using source material are somehow inferior to him. That's not the attitude to bring to a board for discussing Shadowrun.
I couldn't care less if someone's using house rules. But don't think that using house rules makes you somehow better or more right than everyone else -- and don't brag about how badass your house-ruled characters are. I'm sure it's easy to be super badass infiltration expert Shadowrunners when you can teleport, for instance. Security devices are much easier to bypass that way, I'm certain -- but don't act like your group is somehow better than everyone else's, or something, just because you teleported around the Arcology instead of having to hike through it and suffer like everyone else (or something like that).
In my opinion -- and I'm not saying it's true, I'm saying it's how I feel -- once you start tossing lots of house rules into the mix, you almost lose bragging rights for whatever character you're wanting to go on and on about, as that character/campaign/whatever no longer has a damned thing to do with Shadowrun. If you have some superhero-scale Shadowrun game going where your mage (with custom spells and house-ruled double-Willpower for Drain and house-ruled spell foci that work for quadruple effect and don't cost karma) could take over the Marvel universe at 40 karma, shut the fuck up, no one wants to hear about how you can wipe out city blocks with Free Actions, and how all our characters are wusses, or whatever.
Y'know?
House rules dilute the core rules of the game. They similarly dilute your ability to then claim to be talking about the game. Because it hits a point where -- maybe we can call it "house rule critical mass" -- you're just not really playing Shadowrun any more, and your ability and right to talk reasonably or critically or logically about the rules and trends of Shadowrun has largely faded away.
I couldn't care less if someone's using house rules. But don't think that using house rules makes you somehow better or more right than everyone else -- and don't brag about how badass your house-ruled characters are. I'm sure it's easy to be super badass infiltration expert Shadowrunners when you can teleport, for instance. Security devices are much easier to bypass that way, I'm certain -- but don't act like your group is somehow better than everyone else's, or something, just because you teleported around the Arcology instead of having to hike through it and suffer like everyone else (or something like that).
In my opinion -- and I'm not saying it's true, I'm saying it's how I feel -- once you start tossing lots of house rules into the mix, you almost lose bragging rights for whatever character you're wanting to go on and on about, as that character/campaign/whatever no longer has a damned thing to do with Shadowrun. If you have some superhero-scale Shadowrun game going where your mage (with custom spells and house-ruled double-Willpower for Drain and house-ruled spell foci that work for quadruple effect and don't cost karma) could take over the Marvel universe at 40 karma, shut the fuck up, no one wants to hear about how you can wipe out city blocks with Free Actions, and how all our characters are wusses, or whatever.
Y'know?
House rules dilute the core rules of the game. They similarly dilute your ability to then claim to be talking about the game. Because it hits a point where -- maybe we can call it "house rule critical mass" -- you're just not really playing Shadowrun any more, and your ability and right to talk reasonably or critically or logically about the rules and trends of Shadowrun has largely faded away.
Also, it's probably not the best idea to refer to said house rules vaguely and then get all frustrated and surly when the people you've posted them for don't know what you're talking about (i.e., the D100 thing / "If anyone's still confused, it's not my fault."). It never ceases to amaze me that players post wildly rewritten "rules" and then get pissed off when the other DS subscribers don't totally agree and have the audacity to be critical and even (god forbid) DISAGREE.
Exact words of Ben Kenobi “Who is the more foolish, the fool, or the fool who follows him.”
| QUOTE |
| Give us some examples of these 'out right Malicious, Rude, and not very well thought out' responses instead of just throwing vague accusations around. |
It took me about 5 hours, Personally I'm not sure and a really don't care if they were meant to be outright insulting or just poking fun, I took them all with a grain of salt
| QUOTE |
| This is a trap that no one would ever build except a GM, and a GM would only build because they like to kill characters. |
| QUOTE |
| So, you force your players to make Will tests (And fail, I assume |
| QUOTE |
| Thankfully, I don't have to endure such an asinine idiotic GM such as yourself. |
| QUOTE |
Really? Read your replies. Find me one single person who agrees this poor excuse of a killer-GM "trap" reflects good Shadowrun GMing. I stand by my previous statements; anyone who tries to spring this on a Shadowrun game doesn't know jack about Shadowrun |
| QUOTE |
| Usually it takes actually playing in a particular GM's game at least once to find out if he's a fuckwit, but sometimes even that isn't necessary. |
| QUOTE |
| Because the GM is a Dragon fan that has very little imagination or lacks a sense of internal consistency in his game world? |
| QUOTE |
| yes, werendigo, but you hate players with a passion normally reserved for nazis and boiled spinach. |
| QUOTE |
| Yes, Canon Prisons as compared with GM-created ones to kill his PCs. |
This one really got me not because they were “bashing” my GM style, but blaming it on My Gm
| QUOTE |
I don't think raising a dragon baby is anything remotely similar to that... in fact, that's one of the dumbest ideas I've heard for any Shadowrun game. Your GM's batting 0 for 3, Weredigo. Sorry |
| QUOTE |
| Weredigo, I don't care what you say, you had to have been higher than a blimp to have written that. Or from another country...and Arizona doesn't quite fit the criteria there. |
| QUOTE |
| Or perhaps you're using d47-and-a-thirds, GM while tapdancing, and give an additional percentile dice karma for the winner of the Most Interesting Pants At Session award? |
| QUOTE |
| Too many painkillers, 'digo, if such a thing is indeed possible. This thread needs to die |
| QUOTE |
| Leaving aside, for the moment, that what you're playing sounds more like a big mass of poorly-thought-out house rules than like anything that could be called "Shadowrun"... |
| QUOTE |
| Hey, guys, remember how I said this thread needed to die? |
And just to prove that I myself am not perfect
| QUOTE |
| and it is in this spirit that this topic was started, I find a few things in the Core Rule Book either way too complicated, or totally realistic IMHO.” |
Should have been “and it is in this spirit that this topic was started, I find a few things in the Core Rule Book either way too complicated, or totally unrealistic IMHO.”
I try not to discuss rules, it’s the usually the flavor stuff I try to share.
I try not to discuss rules, it’s the usually the flavor stuff I try to share.
| QUOTE |
| We were hard on him because he knee-jerked his responses and claimed to be a master debater without proving it. |
When did I post those exact words???
| QUOTE |
| My problem with him is that he refuses to acknowledge that what he plays is so house-ruled it can barely be called Shadowrun any more. He calls the books house rules, and claims his is the way to play, and those of us who blind ourselves by using source material are somehow inferior to him. |
Never said those of you who prefer to use strictly canon are inferior. IMHO, yer not getting enough salt in yer diet.
if anyone wants to just randomely insult me for the simple reason of stress relief/anger managemnt, feel free to email me at bass624@cox.net
If I didn't help with your game, please tell me I atleast got a chuckle, an evil grin, a humorously raised eyebrow at least. If I wanted to actually publish this “melting pot” of a game that I run, and actually make money out of it, I’d probably call it-
| QUOTE |
| Dungeons & Darknessrun! |
-but right now I’m just happy to call it Shadowrun, ‘cause that’s where most of the rules originate, and that’s the world I chose to start out in
| QUOTE |
| I clear up the "house rule" term for you, since you apparently have wholly lost all sense of logic, |
Actually that happened the moment I was born.
| QUOTE |
| but don't expect us to kiss your ass |
oh please, I get enough of that at work, please don’t. Unless I’m picked on now and then I don’t feel loved.
| QUOTE |
| (PS: I still think yer forty shades of nuts, Weredigo ) |
thank you, I appreciate the compliment
If you "don't care" so much about all the mean things the naughty children say to you, why did you just spend five hours compiling a notebook full of them?
Oh, wait, that's right. You're crazy. I forgot.
Oh, wait, that's right. You're crazy. I forgot.
The flames end now.
hey did anyone else notice that when he was talking about his gms SR experience, he seems to have insinuated that the guy was a real shadowrunner? maybe hes more unhinged than we thought... (or maybe i read it wrong)
| QUOTE |
| My GM used it quite a bit. he'd be about 35 now and he'd been shadowrunning since he was in his teens. Some actual game, Some IRL... |
Digo: kudos for staying so cool despite all the flak, i mean i think your game sounds hilariously mish-mashed, also your logic seems to be made for none but yourself, but judging from this thread, you seem to keep your cool if nothing else.
bye the bye, i call troll, seems too out of this world to be anything else.
I can't even begin to understand what is going on with this thread. I thought I did, but somewhere aolng the line either I dropped acid or logic took a little coffee break and forgot to tell me.
care to expound jray? or are you just going to leave us hanging?
| QUOTE (Weredigo) | ||
Exact words of Ben Kenobi “Who is the more foolish, the fool, or the fool who follows him.”
It took me about 5 hours, Personally I'm not sure and a really don't care if they were meant to be outright insulting or just poking fun, I took them all with a grain of salt |
Were, firstly, inside of a thread, typically only comments regarding that thread, in that thread are considered relevant. Just because someone else bashed you somewhere else, doesn't have any leeway in the current thread.
Now, after going with that, it took you 5 hours to collect, 21 quotes? A whole 21? Out of the 119 posts in this thread (120 now) and posts from your other threads, you had a total of 21 attacks on you, OH NO! I mean, thats almost a worthwhile percentile, if you factored in all the posts in all the other threads you took them from, and all, you'd end up with a meger smattering of posts that aren't useful, which is unavoidable. I'm pretty sure in ANY thread, you can find that maybe 1/10th or so of the posts are worthless, more or less depending on the base topic of the thread.
Lastly, just because you got some worthless replies to your ideas, doesn't mean you weren't acting condescendingly, making fallacious arguements, and being extremely vague over what you considered to be a house rule and cannon. Because of those three things, most peoples reason to treat you like someone with intelligent ideas drop, because 1) if you're condescending, no one wants to bother, its not worth the attitude, 2) Making bad arguements makes it harder for them to get their point across, if their arguement is air-tight, but you refuse to acknowledge it, it is frusterating and angering, and 3) not being clear in what you're saying tends to let people interpret however they feel like, whether for their position to turn it back around on you, as fodder to use in a flame, or simply more reason to keep discussing, it will get turned around, and any loopholes in your wording will get thrown back at you, especially when talking about any rules (house or cannon).
| QUOTE (Slamm-O) |
| care to expound jray? or are you just going to leave us hanging? |
Well, the thread turned into an attack/defend/reattack/defend-by-attacking thing pretty quickly. I did my share. Somewhere along the line the logic involved in the attacks and defenses seemed to get lost and it got way too personal.
Frankly, I appologize for being mean. I got caught up in it like a lot of people.
That and I dropped acid. 
Cripes...and I thought I had pushed it a little to far when I did that Shadowrun/Call of Cthulu crossover for Halloween last year.
Weredigo not enough salt in my diet? Oh, no my dear little friend. I play Shadowrun, WoD, D&D, and Mutants and Masterminds all on a regular basis. And not in a millon years would I mix those fundamentallty incompatable rule systems in the haphazard manner that your "Shadowrun" game is put together.
Let me clue you in on something here, about 95% of us on this jaded little home we call Dumpshock, like Shadowrun beacuse of what it IS, not beacuse of what it isn't. If I want to play an Heroic game, I'll go dust of my Greyhawk stuff and play that for a while. This is Shadowrun, and we happen to like it as is.
So coming into this board and copping an attitude with any and everyone who doesn't agree with your hyped up, super-charged, UBER Shadowrun game is probably one of the most sure fire ways to get your rear end handed to you.
If that's how you want to play the game, fine. But If I see another comment like that "salt" one, then I will take great pleasure in seeing you get broken in half by Critias once I've gotten him significantly boozed up.
And if you want to try and shread me based of my SR/CoC crossover, then all I got to say is, feel free to try.
On a related note, this thread has been one of the most entertaining ones I've read in a while! I needed a pick me up this morning.
Weredigo not enough salt in my diet? Oh, no my dear little friend. I play Shadowrun, WoD, D&D, and Mutants and Masterminds all on a regular basis. And not in a millon years would I mix those fundamentallty incompatable rule systems in the haphazard manner that your "Shadowrun" game is put together.
Let me clue you in on something here, about 95% of us on this jaded little home we call Dumpshock, like Shadowrun beacuse of what it IS, not beacuse of what it isn't. If I want to play an Heroic game, I'll go dust of my Greyhawk stuff and play that for a while. This is Shadowrun, and we happen to like it as is.
So coming into this board and copping an attitude with any and everyone who doesn't agree with your hyped up, super-charged, UBER Shadowrun game is probably one of the most sure fire ways to get your rear end handed to you.
If that's how you want to play the game, fine. But If I see another comment like that "salt" one, then I will take great pleasure in seeing you get broken in half by Critias once I've gotten him significantly boozed up.
And if you want to try and shread me based of my SR/CoC crossover, then all I got to say is, feel free to try.
On a related note, this thread has been one of the most entertaining ones I've read in a while! I needed a pick me up this morning.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.