Not to disagree with you but you are getting rid of the name. A name most of us find synonymous with Shadowrun. I know the name is just flavor text but then again, so is the name of the game.

Isn't possible, after seeing the fan outcry of the loss of the name "decker" you could just stop the nonsense of "hackers" and go back to calling it Decking?

I was talking to Doc F. and he was in total agreement with Fanpro about getting rid of the name Decking, saying, "Hey, they are just hackers."

My reply was that most of the specialized terminology in the game could be replaced. Sam's could be Mercs or Enforcers, the game name could be changed to Underworld (since that is what it is really about right?)

Can't you just keep calling them Deckers, please?

Nope. Ripped off from Neuromancer.

I didn't forget it, I just assumed if you didn't care (like GunnerJ) you wouldn't vote or comment. I didn't know I would be inundated with people who "don't care" caring.

So, if the term decker is 2050's, it makes sense to go back to a term that originated in the 1950's?

And you think the New Gen will have the faintest idea?

Today's house music fans don't even know who MARRS were. There are New Metal teenagers who have never heard of Rainbow, for cryin' out loud

And is that their fault? I was talking to my 8-year old cousin this weekend and he said he hated Star Wars. He probably has no idea the original movies even exist.

I think FanPro would gladly trade some hardcore fans who hate the name hacker for some new ones who have never even heard the term decker. Regardless of how much SR history you know, it doesn't make the game any more yours than some brand new to the game.

You know it.

I know it.

Now tell those braindead frickin' dweebs with the skull t-shirts.

Bingo

Presumably, because they're trying to streamline the system and remove artificial divisions that for some people became so rigid they're almost like *gasp* the dreaded classes.

How do you know that "rigger", "drone rigger", "decker" and "combat decker" are still going to be archetypes in SR4? Maybe these'll all be things that someone skilled with computers will be able to do.

Don't assume they will be. I don't think I'm breaking my NDA too badly to tell you that I have seen the word rigger used in SR4! Can't say with any certainty that just because I've seen it there, it will be in print, but it definitely hasn't been purged from the memory of Shadowrun.

Why should someone driving a rigged vehicle be called anything, other than driver? I'd welcome a system in which more people, not just the ones with a "VCR" class feature were able to actually drive vehicles on wet pavement...

Everyone CAN drive the car on wet pavement, its driving the vehicle while trying to do anything abnormal that you get screwed on, which I wholely agree with.

It's pretty well established that the SR driving/piloting rules effectively preclude characters without VCRs from even trying certain things that proficient drivers/pilots routinely do in real life... In particular when the road conditions are anything less than perfect.

Meanwhile, characters with a high-level VCR and a vehicle modified for improved handling can crash head-on into a freight train and take no damage.

I'll chime in here in solidarity with DE. I've also seen the words "decker" and "cyberdeck" in the SR4 manuscripts. WE'RE NOT GETTING RID OF THEM, PEOPLE! We've been telling you this from the beginning, but it's not getting through, apparently. THEIR NAME IS CHANGING. THAT'S ALL.

Which is just as annoying, if not more so, than my trying to get through to you that all it is is a name-change. And if you don't like the name change, you don't have to use it.

I've only been online in one form or another for about 22 years or thereabouts; thank you ever so much for the etiquette lesson.

Of course it's less than polite. That was my intent, since saying it politely several times in other threads hasn't apparently gotten it through to a couple of you. You know who you are.

What bothers me is that the terms "rigger" and "decker" are pretty neutral -- both a wageslave and a shadowrunner can be described by them. However (despite much strenuous table pounding from bearded kernel programmers everywhere) the term "hacker" has strong criminal connotations that (judging by the first quote above) are all set to be carried over into the game.

Patrick says "we aren't getting rid of them" but the SR4 FAQ seems to state otherwise. Could this mean that "hacker" is being used as a purely OOC mechanical term while "decker" and "rigger" are still the preferred IC nomenclature? In other words: Should we think of "hacker" in Shadowrun as we would "THAC0" in AD&D?

Hey congratulations on your acheivement!!

If your representative of the playtesters working on this project, then we are indeed in very big trouble.

Hopefully your not truly as dense as your post would suggest. We realize the "class" isn't going away. This topic is about the name change. Did you actually read the topic or did you just drop by to scream innappropriately?

Of course I'm fully in agreement that the term "decker" should continue to be used to describe a "computer hacker" whilst the term "rigger" should be used to describe people who do all the wonderful things a rigger can do. Vehicles, drones, sec system, EW and so forth.

Sheesh, I don't go to many gaming forums where people attack the developers. That's just not cool. We should be happy some of them are chiming in at all.

And it's "you're" by the way, not your. Congrats on your spelling acheivement.

Anyway, back on topic. My guess is that hacker will be a generic term for anyone who does something while directly interfaced with a computer system, be it driving a vehicle, breaking into a secure system, etc. The term "hacking" could apply to the ruleset that all the subcategories use. Then you can call yourself a decker or rigger or whatever.

Another thought: maybe there are still those that use a traditional cyberdeck and are still referred to as deckers. But if you roam the wireless Matrix, you are something altogether different. As the technology evolves, why wouldn't the terminology? If you were on the cutting edge, why would you want to refer to yourself by some old-fashioned name? The Matrix has a complete subculture unto itself. It's easy to envision a whole slew of new lingo based on the new tech. The term "decker" quickly become an insult to those still relient on physical hardware.

And maybe these wireless Matrix-users aren't called hackers at all. Maybe there is another name for them that the developers haven't revealed yet.

If that's all you can find to criticize then.....*yawn*?

I don't want to insult the playtesters and I do enjoy and appreciate it when they chime in with something other than incoherent screaming and "your all a bunch of know-nothing overreacting children".

As for the rest of your post.....nice try. Has terminology evolved with technology in real life? Doesn't seem like it. Hackers still hack anything electronic (wired or wireless), cracking, phreaking etc. Most people don't even know the true definitions of those words and they are VERY vague in the vernacular. Poor choice of word. Period. To drop a franchise word like "decker" for something so ambigous, unimaginative and frankly incorrect is beyond me.