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shadow_scholar
Lately I've been listening to Coast to Coast AM, a show that commonly deals with paranormal elements, scientific theories, and various other things thought to be quite silly amongst Western sensibility. It comes on overnight and if you're lucky you can pick it up on your AM dial. If not, you can listen online at the website I referenced above. Unfortunately, I think you have to subscribe to listen. I have subscribed because I find the subjects they cover to be quite fascinating.

Well, the subject they had on last night was quite interesting. I'm listening to the mp3 right now (you can download them when you subscribe) and haven't really gotten too deeply into it (damn that whole work thing) but just the description made me really take notice when I read it this morning. Here is a portion of the description of the show from the website:

Monday March 28th, 2005
Prophecy, Crop Circles & Psychedelics

Returning to the show, author Daniel Pinchbeck offered analysis of Hopi and Mayan prophecies, crop circles and the psychedelic experience. The Mayans, he said, were aware of vast scales of time, and the ending of their calendar in 2012, suggests this may be when a massive transformation of human consciousness takes place. Similarly, he noted that the Book of Revelation describes entering "New Jerusalem" and Hopi Prophecy talks about moving from our current "4th World" and into the "5th World."


Sounds like it is going to be quite interesting. I'm gonna get back to listening.

Mortax
My friends and I are planning on taking a vacation to Mt Fuji in 2011. Just in case. smile.gif

We are also planning an extended trip to tibet wen vitas breaks out.

The funny thing is, I'm really not joking.
Chibu
No, he isn't joking ^-^
Kagetenshi
Nope, it isn't fiction at all. SR moved the date by one year, though.

~J
Tanka
There are rumors that we botched up the count of our years by five or six (and I'm not talking about the missing "Year 0").

Guess we'll find out in a few months if that's right or not, eh?
Mortax
You meen when there is a massive earthquake in NY? Since it is sitting on a big ass fault line that hasn't moved in a long time, so it is gonna be real bad when it does? For the sake a NY, I hope FASA was wrong about that one. Of course, I wouldn't mind the awakening. My physad power would increase. hehehehe

tanka, I'm assuming you're talking about the guy that remade our calender around Jesus' birth and got it wrong by 5 years?
Tanka
Something like that I believe. I haven't heard the full-blown theory, but bits and pieces of it.

So it's either gonna happen in nine months or six years. Here's to waiting!
Nikoli
My wife listens to that show, even gets the newsletter. it's full of all sorts of stuff.
Sandoval Smith
You might want to clear the room. Doomsday conspiracies give me gas.
Nikoli
ROFL
Garland
Is it too late to get in on that Great Ghost Dance cookout or whatever it was? I'll bring chips.
Herald of Verjigorm
QUOTE (Garland)
Is it too late to get in on that Great Ghost Dance cookout or whatever it was? I'll bring chips.

We could arrange our own Great Ghost Barbecue for about the some time.
Garland
No way man, if you were involved, I'd be too worried about who was sponsoring the cookout to have much fun.
Vuron
I wouldn't head to tibet as there's no telling what sort of bad mojo takes over the kingdom. I mean if any place deserves immortal masters it's Tibet in some half-astral shamballah.

Of course it could just be where the Plateau of Leng decides to manifest in the 6th world wink.gif
Mortax
Hey, does anyone know what the criteria is for getting citizenship of Souix nation?
I'm about a 5th. smile.gif
torzzzzz
This all depends on which calender you are working to? The Christian / Gogrian is not the only time frame in the world, some cultures like the Indian have already got to 2060 (I think) and they are fine, well no major changes. The theory is good and there are many hints within religion and culture pointing towards a change, assuming the powers that be are working off our western calender??
And i'm telling you one thing, I would be quite happy to mutate into a power-house of a troll or something. I can't waite till the invention of cyber limbs for real as I will have an order in for two new legs!!

torz x wink.gif
Vuron
If you are a 5th you could probably become a tribal member today (based on NAN vol 1 and 2 if you could prove a native american within 5 generation it seems you were probably good). Realistically I've pretty much assumed that if the character's family was in the states over 4-5 generations in 2016 you probably could claim tribal status if you wanted to on the formation of the NAN. While some tribes are going to be sticklers that pretty much the only way to have the population statistics come anywhere near actually jiving with the setting.

Granted huge numbers of anglos with native american blood likely would reject adopting tribal status but it's the only way for the tribes to remain anywhere near economically viable states.

One thing that's always bothered me though is that the Navajo seem critically underrepresented within the NAN especially within the PCC which would in theory be thier home territory. This criticism is largely based on the fact that the navajo are one of the largest if not the largest current tribe within the US. Of course it could be that the Navajos took a major beating in the resource rush (somewhat plausible as they own some pretty good territory resource wise) and had major population reductions accordingly. However this has never been mentioned in the sourcebooks so it's always been a problem spot for me.

Of course we don't really have a clear indication of the tribal makeup of aztlan so it could be that huge numbers of Navajo escaped into aztlan/mexico and are a part of it's makeup now.
Mortax
QUOTE (torzzzzz @ Mar 29 2005, 02:21 PM)
I can't waite till the invention of cyber limbs for real as I will have an order in for two new legs!!


Working on it.

And again, not kidding.
cyber.gif
torzzzzz
Let me know when you are finished, mine are pretty shot and i want a goochy new pair with all the bells and shiny bit's!!!!!!!! wink.gif

torz x biggrin.gif
nezumi
I asked my tour guide this as we wandered through the ancient Mayan ruins in Tikal, the religious Mayan center.

Yes, in November or December, 2012, the Mayan calendar enters a new era.

I asked him what exactly that means.

He said it means we start the next era.

I asked if the Mayans would have done anything special, or if we're expecting dragons or anything super special.

He said the Mayans would probably have celebrated with a number of ritual sacrifices, have a big party, and get back to work. He wasn't expecting dragons.

In short, yes, it's drawing to a close. Consider it as neat as the close of the 20th century, except the number of computers that'll have the Y2K problem will be much, much lower.
Kagetenshi
QUOTE (Garland)
No way man, if you were involved, I'd be too worried about who was sponsoring the cookout to have much fun.

Who do you think is throwing the dance in the first place?

~J
Req
QUOTE (Kagetenshi)
QUOTE (Garland @ Mar 29 2005, 01:54 PM)
No way man, if you were involved, I'd be too worried about who was sponsoring the cookout to have much fun.

Who do you think is throwing the dance in the first place?

Bingo.
Weredigo
End of the world as we know it i.e. a new and different world it may be. End of the world i.e. game over, down the tubes, pushin up daisies, it won't be.
DrJest
QUOTE (Weredigo)
End of the world as we know it i.e. a new and different world it may be. End of the world i.e. game over, down the tubes, pushin up daisies, it won't be.

Before I moved, I was studying Seni Silat. There's a pretty heavily religious background to that school, and from random chats with the senior teachers I discovered that Sufi Islam is expecting a new prophet or some such sometime in the next couple of decades. Apparently his appearance will be marked by a period of chaos and upheaval, followed by a lengthy period of peace and joy. Not sure of the details, because they never spoke at length about it. Just interesting that it's in the same kind of time frame.
Eyeless Blond
Of course various religions have been predicting the end of the world/a new world/a messiah being born pretty regularly for the past couple thousand years. And you know, the world just keeps on not ending; it's kinda funny that way. I'm not holding my breath. nyahnyah.gif
Herald of Verjigorm
QUOTE (Eyeless Blond)
I'm not holding my breath. nyahnyah.gif

Holding your breath for something isn't a good idea unless it'll happen in a minute or two (or ten if you are a Threepwood). Much better to just throw a party.
Kagetenshi
Say, is Giftbringer making the salsa again? That stuff is to kill for.

~J
Kesh
I really hate to give them more exposure but, if you really want to read all the crackpot end-of-the-world ideas regarding the Mayan calendar, hit the forums at Godlike Productions.

Just beware, this will hurt your brain. Everything from folks claiming to be travellers from the future, to old native American wise men who know secrets of the world, to twelve-year-old goths who know the secrets of the world, to people who believe President Bush performed a human sacrifice at the Giza pyramids on New Years in a dark celebration of Satan at the behest of the Illuminati to help usher in the destruction of the world when Planet X collides with Earth in 2012 even though the aliens are here to help us ascend to a higher plane of existence after we've banded together in suffering during the aftermath.

And yes, all of those are actual examples from those forums. Including the last one. dead.gif
Euchrid
Along with the Mayan prediction, which different historians have put at different years on our calender (but always withing a couple of years of 2012), there's the Spike or the Singularity. The deal here is that if you map the technological level of the globe over time, it's (obviously) rising. Thing is, the bastard's rising exponentially (according to Moore's Law), and eventually an exponential curve goes vertical. Many futurologists (no, that's really a job) put that point at somewhere around 2012. Nobody has any real idea what's going to happen then, if anything.

That's a MASSIVELY simplified explanation, check out this wikipedia article for more: Technological Singularity

Pure conjecture, of course, and all sorts of stuff could happen (plateau in technological growth, massive recession, run out of resources) but still kind of creepy.
Critias
QUOTE (Kesh)
I really hate to give them more exposure but, if you really want to read all the crackpot end-of-the-world ideas regarding the Mayan calendar, hit the forums at Godlike Productions.

Just beware, this will hurt your brain...

Sweet! If I can't find inspiration there for a Call of Cthulu game I'm gonna run, buddy, I can't find inspiration anywhere.
Kagetenshi
Moore's Law is an observation that relates to a transistor count, nothing more.

The simplest definition of a technological singularity is a discovery or breakthrough such that it is impossible to make meaningful predictions beforehand about things afterwards.

~J
Euchrid
QUOTE
Moore's Law is an observation that relates to a transistor count, nothing more


It's related to the exponential growth of said transistors, and can be applied to many other technological fields.
Kagetenshi
QUOTE (Euchrid)
QUOTE
Moore's Law is an observation that relates to a transistor count, nothing more


It's related to the exponential growth of said transistors, and can be applied to many other technological fields.

Regardless of the fact that other things may accelerate at a similar rate, indeed may have similar jerk, they aren't involved in Moore's Law at all. Moreover, it isn't a law; the curve could flatten to zero at any moment (not that it will, mind you, but there's nothing contraindicating it after certain milestones).

~J
Vuron
Actually reason indicates that it will definitely hit a wall beyond a certain point as either total chip size becomes astronomical and/or you need nanomanufacturing. Further even with nanomanufacturing of atomic scale chips you eventual need computers of astronomical size.

Simply put it's a theorem that's held true to date but seems unlikely to hold true for that much longer smile.gif
Aku
that stuff was just...scary...
Garland
QUOTE (Kagetenshi)
Say, is Giftbringer making the salsa again? That stuff is to kill for.

Dunno, but if Joie is coming, everyone is sure to have a good time.
Spookymonster
QUOTE (Kagetenshi)
QUOTE (Euchrid @ Mar 30 2005, 03:24 AM)
QUOTE
Moore's Law is an observation that relates to a transistor count, nothing more


It's related to the exponential growth of said transistors, and can be applied to many other technological fields.

Regardless of the fact that other things may accelerate at a similar rate, indeed may have similar jerk, they aren't involved in Moore's Law at all. Moreover, it isn't a law; the curve could flatten to zero at any moment (not that it will, mind you, but there's nothing contraindicating it after certain milestones).

~J

There's a good read on Moore's Law Over at Ars Technica.

Basically, Moore's statements were something to the effect 'the number of chips we can affordably recover from a single silicon wafer should increase as the quality of the wafers increases and the size of the circuitry decreases''. It was never about what the limits of current technology could achieve, but rather where they (Intel) would break even with their ROI (Return on Investment).
ef31415
When the Gautama Buddha was dieing, he prophesized that there would be five stages of Buddhism. In each stage, the Dahrma would become more and more diluted, until at the end the teaching would be nearly worthless. Then, a new Buddha would appear, and the cycle would start again.

The Buddha died in 483 BC (contemporary with Socrates, roughly).
-- 500 years after that, Mahayana Buddhism was founded (and Christianity started).
-- 500 years after that Buddhism was supplanted by Hinduism in India (and Islam dominated the arabic peoples).
-- 500 years after that Tibetean magic was merged with Biddhism to produce the Tantra.
-- 500 years after that Zen Buddhism was founded (and Protestantism started).
-- 500 years after that is 2012, give or take a few.

ef31415
QUOTE (Vuron)
Actually reason indicates that it will definitely hit a wall beyond a certain point as either total chip size becomes astronomical and/or you need nanomanufacturing. Further even with nanomanufacturing of atomic scale chips you eventual need computers of astronomical size.

Simply put it's a theorem that's held true to date but seems unlikely to hold true for that much longer smile.gif

Oh, it will probably hold true for a while ....

The smallest designs I've heard of call for mechanical switches of coarbon molecules 3x3x6 atoms. We hit that (when?) and shrinkage will come to a screeching halt.

Maybe. Unless you can encode information in quatum states or something.

==Ed
frostPDP
Yanno, here I thought that being a Pagan priest and all, I might just know a bit about prophecy. Some of you guys just scare me smile.gif

Yes, the semi-authenticated date is December 21, 2012. I've heard from friends (trustworthy? Not likely) that the Muslims have at some point agreed with this date within a week. Furthermore, even the History Channel has predicted this through its "Bible Code" shows. (Asteroid, end of world, 2012. Go figure.)

Of interest to me is that the Mayan cycle includes a "Harmonic Convergance." They thought the start of this would end the world, it clearly hasn't. The Harmonic Concordance, however, happened about two years ago (a sort of spiritual high-point.) On this day, at least where I live, there was a full lunar eclipse and, if I am right, it was on a halloween. THAT is pretty freaky. I might have the dates wrong, so don't hold me to it.

All in all, there are a whole bunch of ways we'll end the world. Oil production is gonna pass its peak sooner or later, (I believe the resources I saw said that an optimistic outlook is that in 40 years "Cheap" oil will be no more, economic collapse, blather blather...) nano-technology can evolve to a point that it just eats up carbon life-forms, ummm diseases both man and nature-made, our old friend nuclear war, polar-inversion, or any other theories as to our deaths.

The way I look at it is this - When you have a prophecy, there's a chance you can change it. The inverse is, of course, that by attempting to avert it (AKA knock an asteroid out of its path, and one is supposed to hit in 2014 if I have the date right...again, grains of salt people!!) can ultimately cause it to happen.

So basically, some day we're all gonna die and we'll find out anyway. I have faith, a lot of people do and a lot of others don't, but I agree with one guy who said the end of the world can be either good or bad - If it goes well, great! If it goes bad, boo!
Krazy
too bad the bible code was rigged (sorry dudes, the theology behind it, not to mention the translations are just a little off) But look at whats happening to indonesia that whole plate hasn't shifted for a while and it looks like the december quake is setting off more big ones. and all the plates are connected. I don't want to know what kinda anyting is gonna hit the fan if any major geopolitical events happen. just the wacko's thinking the end of the world is here will be enough to pull the rest of us over the bring. (I hope the pre-trib guys are right, but if not, well, that's what hills are for)
frostPDP
Yeah I wouldn't be surprised if the code was rigged, but the big question becomes "Okay, so its rigged to the Mayan calendar, but what if the Mayans are right and the world ends at that time - Then the Bible Code was right, so was it really rigged?"

Ahh paradox.

All I know is I did read a NASA report saying 2012 or 2014 or something will be a near-Earth incident with an asteroid, and a few days after this announcement it vanished from all trace. Its like the Roswell incident (or, perhaps, the "There is no SR4" one)- You either deny or acknowledge it, but NEVER switch from yes to no and never give a "well we can't tell you even though you know we know." smile.gif
fistandantilus4.0
Suddenly an upside to living in Utah! I AM in the hills!
John Campbell
The Mayans were pretty good astronomers. They accurately measured the precession of the equinoxes, and predicted that in 2012 CE, Sol, at the winter solstice, will appear from Earth to pass through the intersection of the Milky Way and the plane of the ecliptic. This happens regularly, every 26,000 years or thereabouts, and the Mayans based their calendar system on this predictable cycle.

So, yes, on December 21st, 2012, the Mayan Long Count rolls over. What happens then? My guess is - the exact same thing that's happened the previous hundred and fifty thousand times the planet's wobble has caused it to happen since there's been a star and a planet for it to happen to..... absofragginglutely nothing.
Spookymonster
I for one welcome our new Shedim overlords.
lumbercis
QUOTE (John Campbell)

So, yes, on December 21st, 2012, the Mayan Long Count rolls over. What happens then? My guess is - the exact same thing that's happened the previous hundred and fifty thousand times the planet's wobble has caused it to happen since there's been a star and a planet for it to happen to..... absofragginglutely nothing.


"My prediction for the new millenium? A thousand more years; of the same...old...crap..."

From the TV show Millenium "Jose Chung's Doomsday Defense."
Snow_Fox
NYC does NOT sit on a major fault line. There is a minor fault line north north east of it along Long Island Sound. every now and again there is a minor rumble but it was never enough to wake me up. I wouldn't worry about an earth quake leveling parts of Manhattan.
Think about it children, 9/11/01. 'nough said.

QUOTE (Garland @ Mar 29 2005, 01:36 PM)
Is it too late to get in on that Great Ghost Dance cookout or whatever it was?  I'll bring chips.

check out the burning man in the american desert each summer.

QUOTE (frostPDP @ Mar 30 2005, 10:12 PM)
Yanno, here I thought that being a Pagan priest and all, I might just know a bit about prophecy.  Some of you guys just scare me smile.gif...

Yes,Of interest to me is that the Mayan cycle includes a "Harmonic Convergance."  They thought the start of this would end the world, it clearly hasn't.  The Harmonic Concordance, however, happened about two years ago.

There was a harmonic convergence in the early 90's too. some new agey types got damn near orgasmic.

I know what you mean about a full eclpise of the full moon, it was near but not on halloween and that just threw me for a loop.
Snow_Fox
double post
Kagetenshi
QUOTE (Snow_Fox @ Mar 31 2005, 09:50 PM)
Think about it children, 9/11/01. 'nough said.

What are we thinking about? It's a date from early in the century.

~J
Snow_Fox
The fact that end of the island has already been swept clean and is all set for Fuchi city to move it.
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