For non-traditional fantasy, my group also had a lot of fun playing The Burning Wheel last year. I certainly want to give Burning Wheel some more playtime soon.

I don't know yet. I'll buy the SR4 book, read it, and run a few games. If I like it and my players like it, I really don't see any reason I wouldnt switch. If not, we'll just keep with 3ed.

There's no point in having this poll yet. When the book is out and people can read it and make an informed decision, then it would be interesting to see if people want to switch over or not.

i'm hoping the main book will have all of the 'basics' in it: some cyberware, some bioware, some nanite stuff, maybe even some geneware. later books would simply add more gear to the lists, rather than expanding the types of gear available.

I played first, then second, moved to third and I plan on going to fouth. Ive owned at one point every rpg book except third hard back and I even have some issues of ?shadowfiles? or whatever the name of the mag was. I really didnt like 3rd edition and stoped playing shadowrun a couple years ago because it seamed to add rules for the sake of adding rules. With all the holes in 2nd I still liked it better. Now I use Mutants and Masterminds or the latest revision of the Storyteller system for about everything. SR4 looks like a simplification from what I have read so far. Hopefully it will turn out that way and bring back my love for the game.

i'm gonna continue to wait and see, but as things look so far it looks like the only good thing to come out of this will be that its easier to play as live action at cons

Apparently, i'm going at least to try it (since my usual game master, regularly posting on this forum, has said that he will make the move). I'll base my opinion after a couple of games....

*sigh* We'll see. Right now, I'm just hoping the advertising and FAQ campaign is so bad because they're dedicating all their brain power towards actually writing the game. So I've decided I'm going to blindfold myself and see how the reviews are come September (give DSF a month to cool off and become semi-rational again) before I decide.

Im gonna ahve to say no for the same reason the dude that posted this is. THIS IS A SCAM. they are out for our cash adn rather then develope and perfect a awsome system they are going to throw it to the side of the road and "dumb" it down as i noticed they said " make it easier and more streamline" in the FAQ. They DESTROYED D&D with this crap by taking a good system (2nd edition) and murdering it so any 2 year old moron could play 3rd editiona nd buy all thier neat but overall STUPID books.

I believe with this edition that from what i ahve seen thus far they are out for the "rebuy" our books and are "dumbing" it down so more peopel can understand....

why?

why?

Its a easy system as it is in fact its the ONLY role playing system where in 1 night of playing you can get a good idea of almost everything in the game. From all the FAQ posts all i hear is "taking this outand this and this and this" Not a well we are improving this this and this.

Are there some thigns they need to imrove in R3... yeah.... overall ask yourself does it need a full new edittion for any other reason then so u can fork out 40 bucks a book?


They are ripping it apart to put it back together... and god i only hope they know what they are doing cause if not this will flop and SR dies just like DnD has.

Well, here's my 2 cents worth.

I won't be making the switch. I spent tons of cash buying up the books I needed for Shadowrun 2nd Ed. Then we changed to 3rd Ed. So I spent tons of cash buying up the books I wanted for 3rd Ed. I have finally gotten myself into a place where I have the books I want.

Now 4th Ed is coming, and by the looks of the system changes, there isn't going to be too much common ground with the 3rd Ed books.
I simply can't justify spending all that money all over again.

I know what THAC0 is. I also know that its a 0 and not an O. Going to 3rd edition was a change for the better. Its much slicker, less invasive, and generally a much faster and less math based mechanical system. I just hate that they killed so many settings. I want Planescape back.

I will get a copy of SR4 before I make any judgements. I will of course have to know 4th edition well enough to run Con games, so Im just going to hold my judgements. I dont feel this is a money grab, and there had been some speculation about Sr4 for a while now. 3rd edition has had a great 8 year run. Lets see what the new run brings.

But you'll only need 2 or 3 for -your- character. My hope is that the rest of the world is abstracted away so you don't need to cross reference your character's relavent entries in Street Magic to Big Freakin' Guns In The Shadows, Matrix Redux IV, and Rigs: Not Just For Heroin Anymore.

EDIT: And the ideal would be that a good character sheet would reduce it down to just the BBB.

Hopefully the system is changed or refined enough that instead of needing to have smartlink I and smartlink II rules they can just give a single entry and just use used cyberware rules to accomodate those people who never upgraded.

Overall I think if the cyberware is currently of limited value in most people's games it should be either removed or significantly modified to take advantage of the new system. Cyberware that directly impacts the values of attributes unless some rule is established that skill rolls use the unaugmented attribute value should be increased in cost to reflect the greater value that attributes will have in the new system.

I figure I'll just photocopy some of the rules so I can attempt a game. If the game works out reasonably well, I'll buy the rulebook. Plain and simple. If it sucks or loses some of the magic, I won't buy it and I'll stick to SR3.

But given the price of rulebooks these days, to have to buy an SR4 rulebook and then never play it again is cruel.

...a lot of people around here what?

That's a pretty revolting thing to slip on...

yeah, that's definitely egg on his face. or is it!

Heh, oops

That's what I get for posting form work....


*Quick, here comes the boss, hit enter, hit enter!!*

So long as the SR4 book is bound better and pages arent falling out by the second game session I'm in.


Hell, I'll have to be, I'm not tossing another $30 bucks out for an SR3 mainbook that has frickin leprosy!

Wounded Ronin: I still love Oriental 1st Edition to this day-that's the second system I started with. (Cut my teeth on Ravenloft when it first was published as an adventure, and we decided we liked itso much we ran it as a setting. Heh, the old days!)

I'll wait and see, because that's the fair thing to do, and I am interested in being fair. I've followed the FAQ, with 3278, and Uncle Jospeh, and well...we're wondering why some stuff was done, but we'll hold off on the rejoicing or retribution until it's time.

I think Runner Paul, I should let him have this name and go to Serious Paul-I really should, has some valid concerns, and a reasonable solution to some. (Like the smartgun link thing.)

I have some questions I'll ask in a different thread as it's not quite this but related.

I put have to see more as i am kind of set in my ways!

I like SR3 but like with all good things there could be some improvement, but hay I like the game nuff said!

torz x

What needs imporvement then, is it enough to relearn, rebuy everything i've already rebought and relearned three times?

Well, I'll be waiting a little more to judge and see if i(and the folks I play with) like it enought to warrant switching.

But this happens with any system. With D&D, you have the people who like the ORIGINAL ancient edition best and play that, the 1st ED people, the 2nd ED people, the 3rd ED people, and they play what they like best. SOme will switch, but still play an old edition.

Same with SR, while the majority i talked to like the 3e best, I still talk to people who like 1st and 2nd more. And they play with those rules. (tho some of the people, knowing them, I think they only like 1e best due to Turn to Goo. )

I am also a 3e fan...i think they worked all the kinks out of 2, or at least most of them. It didn't seem terribly complex...ok, admittedly the rigging rules gave me as big a headache as the 2e decking rules but they were still workable.

But who knows. Maybe SR4 overall will be a good change. I already like the attribute dividing(especially for INT...i mean, i myself am a fairly well educated person book wise...but am about as oblivious as a garden slug. So there is some realism here.), i am neutral on the pools and the whole wireless matrix thing(gotta see where this is going), know little about the magic(tho the new Magic attribute i think is kinda cool)...so i am just gonna sit back and see where it is.

Well, if this poll is any indication, if even only half of the fence-sitters are happy with SR4, then most current players will switch. If SR manages to get a decent amount of new players as well, then SR4 will probably do a fairly well.

Although I'm not switching to SR4, I'll still be buying the book to see what happened from 2065 to 2070. I'll almost certainly buy any setting books. As the new setting books aren't going to be 'Shadows of ????' I wonder what type of format they will be? So the only books I won't be buying are the other 'core' book, however many they are.

Will I switch?
I still have to see more before I decide. They are taking a lot of things I loved about the game out. But I'm not making my final decision until I have the 4Th ed core book in my hands.

But my big question is do I have the option to stay with 3rd edition?

They won't be printing any new SR3 core books. The books are not bound all that great already, and not everyone uses PDF. So it sounds like I will be shopping ebay a lot if I choose to stay.

Also you won't be able to bring in new players to your SR3 game because they won't be able to get their own books as easily as 4thED books.

If SR4 sticks, then you will more then likely have to play that edition to play in a group other then your regular gaming group.

It looks like it's just " Too bad " for those who like 3rd ed.

If enough people switch there should be an initial wave of SR3 books showing up on the market. While the BBB isn't known for its sturdiness, and therefore might not be a very good used book, if SR4 does well enough there should be enough newer books for you create a small stockpile.

Staying with SR3 does limit your options for outside your regular group, and perhaps even in the group if they don't all want to stay.

I've found that that sometimes getting a rude push by a new version can turn into a good thing. When D&D 3e first came out the rest of my 1e/2e group didn't want to switch. But I had read too much already of the milk and honey to be found in 3e (curse you Eric Noah). I found it excruciating to play the old edition. All those things that had bugged me for years that i put up with because i wanted to play. Sometimes things that i didn't even realise how much were an annoyance. So many of them went far, far away in 3e.

So i dropped out of that group till they switched to 3e and in the meantime found a couple other guys in the same town via the internet (Eric Noah redeemed himself) who wanted a third to start up a 3e campaign. I remember the first adventure i took them through was some barbarrian cave thing that came free on the CD in the PHB. There wasn't anything else really published and i didn't feel comfortable trying to write or convert something.

From that a new, and larger group grew up, as big as my dining room table will hold. It is still going strong, unlike the original group that I've recently stop playing in all together.

From what I have seen so far, I am not switching. I dislike most of the ideas that have been presented, like fixed TN's and the new "dice pool". Luckily for me there is a horde of resources for SR3, and I can always start using house rules to fix things. It will be sad saying goodbye to the Living SR universe, but I can always exercise my imagination and add on to the current one.

The fixed TNs is so far the only thing i dislike in sr4.

I wonder if Fanpro is using a different printer for the SR4 book. If not, there's no reason to belive the binding will hold up any better then the previous books.

I started playing with SR1. So far, every new edition has been an improvement.

So, yes, I'm switching to SR4 before I even see it. If the new BBB turns out to be a mess, I'll just steal the good bits from it and use the SR3 rules... but I'd be shocked if it turns out that bad.

I can state with confidence I'm buying it. That's as much as I can say this early in the game.

I will aquire SR4. I really like most of the changes announced so far (I'm not sure what the setup is with the Magic and Combat systems - like many other people at the moment, though I'm sure by June or July I'll probably have a better idea as more material is announced/revealed). I'll be *very* happy to dump the variable TNs if they can get a fast, efficent and balanced combat and magic system working for it.

Having a simpler-to-use ruleset is something I'm really looking forward to, should it be present in SR4. To be quite honest, when I GM SR3, I probably don't use even half the rules in the BBB and generally make stuff up on the fly - which I really don't like doing so often, as I like having an easy to understand ruleset to rely on.

I'm also happy to see that at least (as of the time of this post) 55% of the board's participants are at least willing to investigate this upgrade further at this stage of pre-release phase. It would be a sad thing if the old guard completely abandoned the line so early in the SR4 lifespan.

I should get less senimental at 3am. Oh well. It's nice to be back here and see that something *new* is happening here for a change. Last time I posted here it reminded me about the state of the Dr. Who fan community before the new series was announced.

Anyway, time for bed. Big day tommorrow.

LordHaHa