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Fortune
QUOTE (Foreigner)
The distance was under ten rods, or less than 550 yards (one rod equals 5.5 yards), or slightly over 500 meters.

Umm, correct me if I'm wrong, but if one Rod is equal to 5.5 yards, wouldn't ten Rods only be 55 yards?
fistandantilus4.0
Back to topic : wink.gif

First off, if most of the runs the players do degenerate in to a fire fight, most Johnson's out there are only going to start hiring them for jobs that are supposed to be loud. Demolitions and such. And jobs like that start getting harder and harder to survive, because they get more armed response than a quite run. If stuff's exploding, they'll send in much bigger hitters than if a few guys were running around with pistols. Those HR teams get nasty. The team is going to have to adapt, or retire, because you can only survive so many of those types of fire fights.

The team I run for had their name changed to Plan B, because they have a habit of things going south, mostly due to rash decisions. Their response usually involves C-XII ("Plan B stands for Plan 'Boom'"). The end of their runs are becoming more and more like escapes, usually involving heavy auto fire. A few HOG's have been used. Only a matter of time if they keep it up.

As for quieter ways, splash grenades, capsule rounds, and 'squirt' guns with stuff like DMSO/Gammascopaline work well. Just make sure you're not too close, just like with any explosives. Not as loud, or noticeable, and armor has less of an effect too. Use disposable get away vehicles. Plant misleading evidence (read:frame job). And for god's sake, wear a mask or something! Anything you can do to cover your trail , do it. Carry lighter weapons. Entrapment (as in the movie) "If you carry a gun, you might be tempted to use it." Now in SR, it's not such a good idea to run around w/o a gun, but do you really need sec armor, a vindicator, and 5 kilos of C-XII?!

This is all assuming you don't want to just retire the characters. becuase at some point, if they keep doing loud runs, they're either going to have to retire, or change tactics. One of my favorite quotes from SR "Your run may be over, but someone else is just starting theirs."

One of my next runs is a reverse shadowrun. The PC's are hired to track dow na runner team after an insertion. Thief to catch a thief style game. Hopefully it will give them some ideas on better ways to cover their trail.
Mortax
.... that's a great idea!

Noisy team gets hired to take a noisy team.....
A subtle way of letting them know what can happen if you get too noisy!
Hmm..... gives me ideas. vegm.gif
frostPDP
I know I'm lenient and view the SR world differently than most, including the GM who started things, but here's how I see it.

1: Whenever a firefight breaks out in a Z-Zone of the barrens, it has to be INCREDIBLY big for the Star to get involved. Period.

2: If it has to do with corporate interests, the corps tend to be the ones to deal with it. Especially if an incident happens on corp property.

3: In the year 2005, we still cannot find the most wanted terrorist in the world (especially since we trained him.). Anywhere. Finding a common Shadowrunner is a little easier, but the resources dedicated to such a task are infinitely smaller as well. Chances are laying low makes sense, but then again with so many international violations you might be in big trouble.

4: My dystopic view of Shadowrun is simple enough that unless there's a big enough deal raised (Bombing the docwagon patch-up squad tends to cause this) nobody gives a damn. Families might try to go after you, oh yeah, but for all the headline cases and CSI episodes we watch, keep in mind that thousands of unsolved murders exist.

So in short - Yeah, SR is a game where violence happens. Mostly on corporate or foreign property: Hopefully a country which your home country HATES. (I doubt the UCAS sheds many tears over the NAN's dead children.) If you're dumb enough to walk into downtown Seattle and open fire with a Panther Assault Cannon and expect the anonymity of a Z-Zone complex to keep the Star (If not the Metroplex Guard) from sending in the fast-movers, well, that's another lesson for your new character sheet.
fistandantilus4.0
QUOTE (frostPDP)

1: Whenever a firefight breaks out in a Z-Zone of the barrens, it has to be INCREDIBLY big for the Star to get involved. Period.

2: If it has to do with corporate interests, the corps tend to be the ones to deal with it. Especially if an incident happens on corp property.


1) I agree completely

2) I see them using liasons to the star mostly, and their own teams only when they REALLY want them. THe Star has the street resources and familiarity. Plus, why waste their man power, when it's the Star's job. Bottom line chummer, bottom line. wink.gif


And the bigger mess they make, the more a big deal will be made of it. Especially if it's not being solved. Imagine how much fun Knight Errant would have with Lone Star not being able to solve a high profile case. And with the right media connections, they can make it high profile. That could be a run all in it's self!
frostPDP
Fisty: True, the Star is worthyif its a simple theft of a peice of art. But when the runner team breaks into the top-secret research facility, you don't necessarily want to the Star to know you had a few less-than-voulentary test subjects.

Example: Me and a team botched a run against a Shiawese jail in Alaska. We got wrecked, but it was in a mostly-Shiawese owned town. Any assassins that come after the PCs are definitely Shiawese-squads. Even if they precicely locate the PCs, although they -could- call the Star, they'd leave it in their own hands primarily because those dead were sort of belonging to Shiawese.

Then again, private property which is severely outgunned and could use a few Citymasters to keep the attacking runners in will always call the Star. Its situational smile.gif

nezumi
QUOTE (Kagetenshi)
SR3, page 113, Weapon Range Table: Taser, Extreme, 13-15 meters. No mention of it applying only to wired versions.


You're right. Hmm... Maybe I should bother reading this book I've spent so much money on.

Which begs the question, why would I use the dart and not the wires? Doesn't the wired version continue shocking the person until I disengage it?
Kagetenshi
Yes. By the same token, though, the wired version can't fire at anyone else unless you retrieve the darts at the end of the wires, and if the person at the other end just isn't feeling the pain you might find that the wires make a good handle.

~J
Foreigner
QUOTE
(Fortune)

Um, correct me if I'm wrong, but if one Rod is equal to 5.5 yards, wouldn't ten rods be only 55 yards?



Fortune:

You're right. smile.gif

I really must start using my calculator more often.

I used to be pretty good at calculating that sort of stuff "in my head", but the ability seems to be diminishing as I grow older.

The "under ten rods" mentioned in the account apparently referred to the distance between the Confederate lieutenant who actually fired the shot, and the main group of Confederate infantrymen, whose commanding officer issued the order which ultimately led to General Lyttle's death. The senior officer, whose name was Hindman, had a company of Whitworth-armed sharpshooters at his disposal. Twelve of those men, including the aforementioned lieutenant, were nearby when he ordered them "...to fire upon the Federal commander , and kill him if possible, well knowing the effect of his death upon the men. Coolly, as if on dress parade, the young officer steppedout with his men and took deliberate aim under a galling fire. Twelve rifles cracked simultaneously. Rider and steed went down together, and the black mane of the horse waved over Lyttle. Three bullets struck him, seven his horse, a wonderful fire and remarkable for its terrible accuracy. "

Excerpted from an eyewitness account by Major John N. Edwards, C.S.A., quoted from STALK AND KILL, page 38, Copyright © 1997, by Adrian Gilbert. (St. Martin's paperback edition, December, 1998.) The account was previously published in THE CONFEDERATE WHITWORTH SHARPSHOOTERS, copyright © 1989 by John Anderson Morrow.

Raygun:

Dixon himself admitted that his target was "... the group of riders," rather than a specific individual. In an attempt to duplicate Dixon's feat on a life-size cardboard cutout of a man on horseback, (published by Precision Shooting magazine in their book PRECISION SHOOTING AT 1000 YARDS (copyright © 2000 by Precision Shooting, Inc., edited by Dave Brennan)), the shooter, Bill Falin, managed to hit the intended target 32 times out of 42 shots fired, using varying combinations of rifles and loads.

--Foreigner
Raygun
QUOTE (Foreigner)
Dixon himself admitted that his target was "... the group of riders," rather than a specific individual.

That little nugget does cut a bit out of the whole intended purpose here, doesn't it? The fact that he was shooting into a group of riders (according to him, about 15 of them) from 1,538 yards out and managed to hit one of them really isn't all that fantastic, is it? It's not like he picked out who he was going to knock off of which horse. He just shot into the group of them and hit someone. Lukily, it was someone who mattered enough to the indians to call off their attack, rather than a horse or dirt.

QUOTE
In an attempt to duplicate Dixon's feat on a life-size cardboard cutout of a man on horseback, (published by Precision Shooting magazine in their book PRECISION SHOOTING AT 1000 YARDS (copyright © 2000 by Precision Shooting, Inc., edited by Dave Brennan)), the shooter, Bill Falin, managed to hit the intended target  32 times out of 42 shots fired, using varying combinations of rifles and loads.

From what I understand of the event in question, Falin wasn't there for the test with the results you mention. Mic McPherson (editor of Cartridges of the World, coincidentally), Harvey Watt and Paul Armbruster did the shooting between both .45 and .50 caliber Sharps rifles.

They hit the target representing the rider (a 4x2 foot bullseye) 5 times, hit the full 14x7 foot target 27 times, 6 shots "went into a 2-foot high, six-foot wide area just above the upper left target quadrant" (otherwise known as "missing"), and the remaining 4 shots were "wild misses", for a total of 42 shots. That's 12% for a hit on the rider. Not very good.

At the event where Bill Falin was involved, he and McPherson shot his custom-chambered 40-65 Falin Sharps at a target at the same distance. They managed 13 hits out of 130, for 10%, on horse and rider.

All of that certainly proves that Dixon's feat was not impossible, but it was by no means something that even an experienced shooter could be expected to accomplish with great regularity, especially from a cold barrel.
The Other DSE
Back on to topic for me too I guess:

To FrostPDP and Fistandantilus:

I agree that for the most part the world at large doesn't care about collateral fatalities (Sprawl Survival Guide - "Life on the Run"), events of the magnitude the original poster is describing certainly *do* get attention.

One simple reason, as I believe Fisty said: Bottom line chummer, bottom line.

Witness the results of September 11th on the American economy. If people don't think that they're safe, they don't leave their house. They call in sick to work, they don't go out and buy their favorite stuffers, etc.

It's even worse if your company name is somehow attached to the events in question. People still freak out about flying in a plane, regardless of the fact that you're *much* more likely to be killed in a car wreck than flying in a plane. If there was a major shootout with collateral damage/casualties near a Shiawase research facility, Joe Wageslave starts suddenly remember that his mall nearby is a Shiawase place and starts wondering if maybe, just maybe it might not be safe there.

Suddenly that group is affecting profits totally unrelated to the facility they hit. If they've done enough runs lately (and let's face it, a FUBAR run a month would be more than enough), then *every* corp might start losing some money to consumer fear. The Star starts getting pressure from citizens (they want to get their contract renewed chummer), so they're pissed even if they weren't called in to begin with. DocWagon decides to raise its premiums to account for the increased danger to its employees, which other corps (and citizens) have to pay. All of a sudden you've got all kinds of corps grumpy.

And all of that heat is going to hit where chummer? The shadows. The Star starts cracking down on everything and busting heads. The corps who got wronged are leaning on their contacts trying to find the morons who busted up their toys. Even the corps who aren't wronged increase their security a bit, so other runners are having harder times running because of the crack down. And do you think Johnson's paying any more? No, in fact he's probably using this as an excuse to pay less since he's concerned about the professionalism of the assets he's hiring.

So, if there's a runner group that's known to cause lots of collateral damage, yeah, they're going to get run down. Personally, I think that they might get hit by other runners, just out of self-preservation.

As for tracking them down: I disagree with your number 3) Frosty for a couple of reasons. One, Bin Laden is hiding out in the middle of nowhere in the middle of a strong support network. The runners are in the middle of the sprawl and their support network is probably beginning to wonder if these guys are worth taking a bullet for. Two, Bin Laden doesn't need recognition. He doesn't need for others to know he's a lunatic whack-job. Runners need their rep. They need others to know they pulled a job. At the very least their Johnsons know they pulled these jobs. Moreover, I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that these guys weren't exactly keeping it quiet that they did this.

Personal recommendation: Retire now and disappear. It'll make the bullet take that much longer to find you, because it's coming chummer. It's coming.

And, while for a corp, it is all about the bottom line, bullets are cheap and job satisfaction is always wanted...

Little Bill
The campaign effectively ended last night. My character betrayed the rest of the team's location to a Sioux hit squad, killed the one team member who had been most responsible for the bombings, and used his scalp and my character's connections in the Sioux government to clear his name and reitre from Shadowrunning.

So you guys can go back to discussing the effective range of muskets or whatever it was you were talking about.
Garland
QUOTE (Little Bill)
My character betrayed the rest of the team's location to a Sioux hit squad, killed the one team member who had been most responsible for the bombings, and used his scalp and my character's connections in the Sioux government to clear his name and reitre from Shadowrunning.

Awesome.
Veracusse
I was the GM for this disaster, and the runner team got what was comming for them. The hit squad was a lone Sioux Wild Cat operative working the shadows in Seattle. He was activated, and got in contact with Little Bill's character, Red Cloud. Red Cloud basically gave him all the information that he needed to track them down, plus the hit man had a decker working with him at the time and had tracked the characters matrix snooping. When they were half way through the run the assasin showed up and found the first character on his list and diced him up into pieces with an Aztech Manacuitl (Yeah I know!!!). Then he found the second character and plugged him in the head from behind with an SMG. Looked at the mage standing there and smiled and just left. The mage was not on his hit list as he was one of the more sane characters, plus Red Cloud had tipped him off before hand that something was going to happen during this run and that it would also be Red Cloud's last run.

The characters had it comming for a while. Everyone agrees that there was a loose cannon on the team. This character had nearly fragged up a couple of runs while setting explosives and twice rolling crit failures; he slugged a politician in the face on camera; used his real id all the time; got arrested in Sioux nation for trying to bribe an MP and skipping bail while at it; and then of course blew up the Humanities building and an engineering lab at the University of Cheyenne. The Sioux already had a record on him and were suspicious of him and those who were with him, so they assumed that he was the culprit and painted him as a UCAS extremist terrorist.

The Sioux tried to stop the team with less-than-lethal means at first. They tried gassing them with CS gas, road blocks, etc. But the mage was clever, or lucky enough, to pull off an invisibility spell on the vehicle they were in, and so they finally escaped from Sioux territory. During an intense car chase between the pcs and a T-bird and Attack Helicopter Red Cloud bailed out of the vehicle in Cheyenne and made his way to his Grandpa's place who was an elder in the Sioux nation.

To make a longer story shorter, the two characters were, earlier, brought into custody with the loose cannon character when he tried to bribe an MP. They weren't charged but they information and ids were taken nonetheless. After, the mayhem began the Sioux pegged the characters as the terrorists and set up the plan to get revenge. The Sioux wanted blood, they got blood via Red Cloud's killing and scalping the character responsible for everything, and by the hitman taking care of the two unlucky team members who happened to be involved with the loose cannon. Red Cloud returned to the Sioux, and presented the scalp to his grandpa. He has been exonerated of his past and is now a proud member of the Sioux Wild Cats again.

An interesting end to a wilder than usual campaing ohplease.gif.

Veracusse
Little Bill
QUOTE (Veracusse @ Apr 29 2005, 08:25 PM)
I was the GM for this disaster...The characters had it comming for a while.  Everyone agrees that there was a loose cannon on the team....Red Cloud returned to the Sioux, and presented the scalp to his grandpa.  He has been exonerated of his past and is now a proud member of the Sioux Wild Cats again.

I don't know if I would call it a disaster. At least you planned what went down last night - maybe I've told you about my L5R campaign that completely self-destructed when two players that hated each other finally came to blows?

Since I bailed early I didn't know Van had gotten it too. Oh well.
So, since everyone agreed Lemuel was a loose cannon and he was the only one I actually killed, do I get a pass from the rest of the group for future games, even though I betrayed the whole team?
Jakeape
I was the loose cannon for this campaign, the Dwarven ex-cop felon with dozens of kilograms of explosives. I regret nothing although I'll probably be doing things differently the next time around, if there is a next time around.

I wouldn't call the group a 'disaster', although things didn't always go as planned. I've played in groups where every decision, however minor, is debated over endlessly and plans are made for every contigency. It's nice to play on the other end of the spectrum, where everything is very chaotic. I especially enjoyed the ending, better to end with a bang than with a fizzle.

Things would have gone alot more smoothly had we had a Face, as well as some good fake IDs. Oh, and if we hadn't punched that politician on camera. The explosives I think were justified, I'm surprised they blasted that much. I put... two or two kilos? 27 foot blast radius or 9 foot blast radius. And I could have sworn I let them off at the same time, but maybe I'm "mis-remembering".

QUOTE
do I get a pass from the rest of the group for future games, even though I betrayed the whole team?


I'll give you a pass. None of the rest of the group seemed to distraught over it last night, I don't think there will be any bad blood.
Kagetenshi
Again, what you were doing was fine. It's how you were doing it that desperately needs work.

~J
Jakeape
Speaking of explosives, I don't own the rulebooks can someone tell me if there are some upper limits for explosives? Basically, as it stands the blast radiuses become insanely huge after a few kilos. At char creation, I purchases around 80 kilos of explosives. Towards the end of the campaign, I had 76 kilos left. I sat down with Google's built in calculator to figure out how big a blast I could create if I blew them all up.

So, basically, for every time you add a kilo you sqaure the damage. So, basic commerical explosives have a damage of 3. So, one kilo equals nine and it looses three points of damage rating per meter. If you divide the damage by three, you get the effective range of the blast.

One Kilo = 3 meters
Two Kilos = 9 meters
Three kilos = 27 meters
Four Kilos = 81 meters
and so forth

So, I have 76 kilos of explosives. Let's punch that into google to find out what my base damage is. Wow! 1.82480036 × 10^36! That's a crapload of damage! Let's find out how big the blast radius is, shall we?

(1.82480036 × 10^36) / 3 (Range in meters) = 6.08266788 × 10^35
(6.08266788 × 10^35) / 1609.34 (The amount of meters in a mile) = 3.77960399 × 10^32

I'll round that down for 10^32 for simplicity's sake. 10^32 miles. Wow. That's pretty damn big. That's one with thirty two zeros behind it. Now let's calculate how many miles there are in a light year (180,000 miles per second).

((((180,000 x 60) x60) x24) x 365) = 5.67648 × 10^12

Hmm, that's alot less that 10^32. According to Carl Sagan's book "Cosmos", the universe is 14 billion light years wide.

5.67648 × 10^12 * 1,000,000,000 = 5.67648 × 10^21

10^21? That's still less miles than my explosion. Furthermore, if the explosion somehow bounces off the edge of the universe and comes back (ala the 'chunky salsa' rules I've heard of), it bounce back and forth more than a trillion times.



Kagetenshi
Y'see, unfortunately for all involved you've got it backwards. You take the square root of the quantity in kilos, times the base Power. Your Power is a mere 26 at the explosion.

~J
Jakeape
That changes the whole dynamics of the campaign. The explosives we used in the tunnels did trivial damage, and had a blast radius of a little over a meter for each. The C12 we used to destroy the Souix van had a blast radius of one meter (exactly).
Veracusse
So that is where all of the disasterTM comes in. In past runs and campaigns we have had explosives, but never on the level of this last campaign. All the different detonations of Jakeape's character really brought it home to me, just how silly the explosive/demolition rules are in SR3. It may be just my misunderstanding of the rules, but 4-5 kilos of explosives is a lot of destruction. I should have constrained things a little more as a GM. If it weren't for the explosives then there would have been a much smaller trail of destruction left from the team.
Kagetenshi
Yeah. The explosives rules are horribly broken… but in the other direction.

~J
fistandantilus4.0
QUOTE (Jakeape)
I was the loose cannon for this campaign, the Dwarven ex-cop felon with dozens of kilograms of explosives. I regret nothing although I'll probably be doing things differently the next time around, if there is a next time around.


This right here I'm showing to my players (aka - team Plan B). I love that you were playing your character as he was. Not every character is going to make well thought out, or even rational decisions all the time. I love even more that the team learned something of it (not "don't punch the politician", "don't punch the politician on camera" wink.gif ).

What I appreciate the most is that the team went down, and you guys aren't all bent out of shape about it. Drek happens, sometimes teams go down. And more often for not, it's for a better reason than bad rolls. It ruins the game when the players get all pissy because their characters died. Yeah, it sucks, but there's usually a good reason. And then you get to make new characters!

Veracusse
So assuming compound 12, at -12/m, and his character had 4 kilos set to detonate underneath the Humanities building, that would do a total of 192 Power, to a radius of 16 meters. And at 16 meters it would only be at a power of 12. From reading the rules I think this is how it is done, and if I remember right that is how I did it in the past. That seems a lot less destructive then what had happened during the game, but it still would have done a considerable amount of damage to the building and the medic crew that was at the site when the explosives were detonated. I also guess that a similar set of 4 kilos would not have taken out the entire overpass where the APC was positioned either.

So what house rules are there, or do the explosive rules reflect anything close to reality??

Veracusse
Kagetenshi
That's incorrect. 4 kilos of Compound 12 is 24D at the source and only extends for two meters.

~J
fistandantilus4.0
so would that be the equivelant of a shaped charge, or is that just the base damage before "degrading" over range.
Kagetenshi
That's the base damage before degrading over range.

Like I said, horribly broken.

~J
Veracusse
QUOTE (fistandantilus3.0)
QUOTE (Jakeape @ Apr 29 2005, 07:37 PM)
I was the loose cannon for this campaign, the Dwarven ex-cop felon with dozens of kilograms of explosives.  I regret nothing although I'll probably be doing things differently the next time around, if there is a next time around.


This right here I'm showing to my players (aka - team Plan B). I love that you were playing your character as he was. Not every character is going to make well thought out, or even rational decisions all the time. I love even more that the team learned something of it (not "don't punch the politician", "don't punch the politician on camera" wink.gif ).

The team was fairly well put together, although as has been mentioned there was a lack of a good face. There were a few characters that could put at least a decent word or two together. Most of the problems were due to rash decision making on the players parts, particularly concerning Jakeape's character. Before the game he told me his character's background and personality and what they were like, so I foresaw something like this happening. Also, littleBill's character, RedCloud, was on the opposite end of the spectrum in terms of character background and personality. So I saw an invetible clash between these two characters eventually. I think that each player and character in the game had a different definition of professional shadowrunner in mind when they put their characters together.

The rift in the team began when the punching the politician incident happened. The rest of the team was deciding on where and how Lemuel should get facial reconstruction done from, when RedCloud offered to do it himself using his fists. A broken nose, fatlip, and a couple of blackeyes, and Jakeape's character had a new disguise.

Back to Tschosie's, the original poster, concern. The murderous felons were already there long before the campaign began. Besides your character had his fair share of un-needed felonies too. wink.gif

Veracusse
Arethusa
QUOTE (fistandantilus3.0)
so would that be the equivelant of a shaped charge, or is that just the base damage before "degrading" over range.

QUOTE (Kagetenshi)
That's the base damage before degrading over range.

Like I said, horribly broken.

Even a shaped charge is going to be nastier than that to the surrounding area. There's nothing magical about shaped charges; all you're really doing is making sure there's little to no potential shrapnel on the outside and maximum explosive force over your copper (or similar material) penetrator. You still have to back the fuck away or you're going to have a very bad day.

And, yes, SR explosive rules are notoriously, spectacularly, egregiously, and unforgivably bad.
Veracusse
@ Kagetenshi: So Jakeape's universe/all-reality-destroying explosives would really be the following square root of 72 kilos = 8.49.... X rating (which equals the power I am assuming) 12 = 102 D. This would have a blast radius of only 8.5... meters. Wow that is a lot different from what was happening during our game. sarcastic.gif And all this time I thought we were doing something wrong silly.gif sarcastic.gif

Veracusse
fistandantilus4.0
QUOTE (Veracusse)
Before the game he told me his character's background and personality and what they were like, so I foresaw something like this happening. Also, littleBill's character, RedCloud, was on the opposite end of the spectrum in terms of character background and personality. So I saw an invetible clash between these two characters eventually. I think that each player and character in the game had a different definition of professional shadowrunner in mind when they put their characters together.


I've seen thi shappen SO many times. It's kinda sary watching a team get set together, that you just know is going to turn in to a train wreck. Thankfully the players usually swap out characters to adjust (IC, the runners don't get along, ditch the team).If not, well, natural selection often solves the problem as well.
frostPDP
I have to agree with Fisty: I like hearing that people played it all IC and nobody got too worked up OOC.

DSE, two things my friend. First: "Witness the results of September 11th on the American economy." - Honest truth, I was doing a project last semester and got into September 11 and the economy. Unemployment was skyrocketting in August, so while 9-11 did damage (I'm a New Yorker, I was in high school at the time, not good news to hear but damn America, from some of the things people said we apparently forgot the rest of the world existed since 1991 and the end of the Cold War ) to the economy it was already tanking. Which is odd. (Insert random conspiracy theory here.)

And yeah, Afghanistan and Bin Laden are different than Joe Runner and the Barrens, but consider this: The other night the great F-ckup (Okay, so you can tell I'm fairly liberal, but don't mix me in with those Democrat cowards, 'cept MAYBE Hillary and Dean) went on the air and said how we're going to put pressure on Kim Jong Ill. Because last report I read the North Koreans were confirming they had delivery systems that could hit California - But they vote Democrat, anyway, so North Korea can nuke it all they want?

Seriously though: If Bin Laden were to be more active (AKA not wait as long as he has before executing another attack) then I think your fear-leading-to-more-action scenerio would make sure. Sure, a bunch of FUBAR runs will get any runner anywhere hunted after, likely by his own compadres, but the problem is Terrorists -want- mass marketing.

And we still can't find them.

Which makes me wonder if Bin Laden isn't hanging out at the White House, considering last I heard we were after him "dead or alive" and he apparently can hide pretty well from our military. Which is conviently NOT assigned to finding the guy who woke us all up.

~~End pseudo-political rant, and apologies for any offended. Who can feel free to take it up with him.~~
Jakeape
Nearly all of the explosives I used were just the low powered commerical explosives. The other stuff had too high of a rating to buy at char creation. I had only one kilo of C12, ever during the entire game, and two kilos of C4.
hyzmarca
QUOTE (fistandantilus3.0)
QUOTE (frostPDP @ Apr 28 2005, 12:01 AM)

1:  Whenever a firefight breaks out in a Z-Zone of the barrens, it has to be INCREDIBLY big for the Star to get involved.  Period.

2:  If it has to do with corporate interests, the corps tend to be the ones to deal with it.  Especially if an incident happens on corp property.


1) I agree completely

2) I see them using liasons to the star mostly, and their own teams only when they REALLY want them. THe Star has the street resources and familiarity. Plus, why waste their man power, when it's the Star's job. Bottom line chummer, bottom line. wink.gif


And the bigger mess they make, the more a big deal will be made of it. Especially if it's not being solved. Imagine how much fun Knight Errant would have with Lone Star not being able to solve a high profile case. And with the right media connections, they can make it high profile. That could be a run all in it's self!

BUt it isn't the Star's Job. Lone Star is a private AA corp. It is only the Star's job if the corp in question pays the Star. Furthermore, if Lone Star doesn't have a contract with the corp they can't legally investiage at all. It is amatter of jurisdiction. We don't call the Mexican police to investigate crimes in Ohio and Renraku doesn't call the Seatle police to investigate crimes in the Arcology.
fistandantilus4.0
That would only be the case for an extraterritorial facility. If it's anything else, it's the Star's job. Corps can (and heck, probably will) send in their own squads if it's big enough. Basically, let the people who know the streets best do the leg work.
hermit
QUOTE
BUt it isn't the Star's Job. Lone Star is a private AA corp. It is only the Star's job if the corp in question pays the Star. Furthermore, if Lone Star doesn't have a contract with the corp they can't legally investiage at all. It is amatter of jurisdiction. We don't call the Mexican police to investigate crimes in Ohio and Renraku doesn't call the Seatle police to investigate crimes in the Arcology.

Not nescessarily. Policing is a politics issue too. And in politics, there's more than business sense. And if there's sustained public outrage about the Star's handling of the recent string of terror attacks, it might just be that the overnor, seeking reelection after all, tries to gain points with the public by renegotiating policing contracts. Now, that's something the Star would NOT want, even if it is an AA corp.

Furthermore, if terrorism is involved, international cooperation is the norm. And had you read the Raku arcology sourcebook, you would know that ciorp exterritoriality has it's limits, too, especially when a threat greater than a few hoodlums shooting some guards are involved. Basically, the UCAS army took the building over, since the three nuclear reactiors under a haywire AI's control were a threat to the UCAS. And what did Renraku do? Watch helplessly. What should they have done? For all their reputation and arrogance, the Red Samurai would look really weak when engaging a real army.
Club
THis is my story about the folly of trusting runners with explosives: I'm running Hates, one of the adventures from the first Harlequin book as a one-shot at a convention. I set it in 2060, so the arcology still had a massive military blocade around it, a couple blocks from the target. I ruled that the building would muffle small arms, but someone would hear a grenade or heavy weapon. I tell them this up frount.

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