Oh? Well, haven't read Cyberpirates recently. That actually ties in pretty nicely with T:SH though. Since SK has its claws into the Russian government - at least the western/European end as opposed to Yamatetsu and Vladivostok - as well as being one of the main groups fighting over control of the UGB leadership, of which it currently owned the head, with their close links to the DGI it makes sense. Plus just screwing with Aztechnology and trying to horn in on another market.

I don't remember any textual reference, but all the maps I can hink of, from SR2, NAGNA and SoNA, all showed the UCAS-CAS border on the southshore, putting the Peninsula in the UCAS. Moreover, they never display a border on the peninsula like there should be if one part was CAS.

BTW, Seraphim's HQ is in Montreal, not in Quebec City (PoaD, page 60).

You're right. The map in SR3.13 shows that the peninsula is UCAS territory. I guess I should have looked there first! The map has been updated accordingly.

Updated.

Sounds good to me. Should we include a "one level up" page addressing the Intelligence Community, DCI and Management? Might make it a little easier to comprehend the relationship between agencies and the rest of the government. It would also be nice to keep the CIA page focused on the CIA itself and its operations.

As far as the CIA itself is concerned, I'm sure that each directorate would include some department that deals with magical intelligence specifically even if there is a dedicated "Directorate of Thaumaturgy" or whatever we want to call it. My own opinion is that there would be a dedicated directorate. There's a lot going on there.

That's pretty much what I had in mind as well. One thing I'm concerned about is giving GMs room to manuver. Laying down an organizational structure is good, adding a general historical outline is good. A basic outline is fine. As a GM, I'd like to have some free room to mess around in.

Here's the page I've put together for CIA. Not much on it now, just kind of an idea for laying it all out. The only things I've added, which are by all means up for discussion (this is just an idea), are the Directorate of Thaumaturgy and the Awakened Affairs Staff under the Office of the DCI. Opinions requested.

I was thinking about that, too, but I wasn't sure if it was going to be treated separately or as part of the CIA file since the leadership are basically the same. However, since there does appear to be another perspective on it, I think that the UCAS IC should probably be treated separately from any of the agencies even though it will also tie into the different agencies.

I also think that in addressing the entire IC leadership and structure, there is the similar concern in addressing the Defense Intelligence Community (which, according to dia.mil, the DIA claims to chair) which is even more of a bureaucratic nightmare than the general IC because there is the added element of the DoD civilian and military leadership as well as between the different branches (e.g., the Director of the NRO is also the Assistant Secretary of the Air Force for, IIRC, Space Affairs). Since NRO, DIA and NSA are the only agencies we are currently working on, I think that it is less of a problem than factoring in all 15 intelligence agencies, including the military branch agencies. I think it may merit a brief reference or overview.

OH, I didn't notice this until just now. The NSC should probably be discussed in the IC Leadership and Community Management document. I think it would be especially important since there was a big deal made during the transition of the Clinton to Bush Administrations that there were people in the Bush White House who felt that the NSC, and specifically the NSC Staff, under Clinton became a mini-CIA. The Staff does cover a great deal of the same issues, and under Clinton had nearly 20 committees (Bush's NSC has 11) of high-level officials from different agencies and departments and was ostensibly to do the job that Homeland Security does now, especially Richard Clarke's office and his role in Clinton/Bush's Counterterrorism operations, and a sort of pre-TTIC role. Current Organization of the NSC.

One corrections, it's the President's Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board.

I'd like to leave some of the current RL situations (e.g., the DHS) open for possible use in expounding upon the information that we will be working with. This should be contemplated in the saem context that since POAD: DS there were officially fewer Cabinet departments in SR than IRL (e.g., no more Energy Dept., no DHS to my knowledge ever existed), and there is at least one new Cabinet Department (At least, this goes back to POAD: DS)--the Dept. of Information. SoNA may have changed things. I wouldn't be surprised, actually, but I'm working at a slight disadvantage.

Great. That sounds like a good rationale, and a reasonable expectation from having to incorporate something that is so all-encompassing into the existing structure of the Agency.

Sweet.

That's excellent. I like the structure, and I especially like what and where you've added the different staff offices. The DT is also well-appreciated. I think that it will add an especially interesting touch to the CIA to see how the DT plays a role in the overall structure of the CIA, and how it deals with the application of THAMINT into collection and analysis.

OBTW, I think that Magical Intelligence should be referred to in the community parlace as THAMINT--Thaumatugical Intelligence, specifically because it goes with the Directorate of Thaumaturgy. Of course, that's just my opinion.

OBTW 2, I know, and I noticed you wrote in the file, that the CIA can't investigate UCAS citizens. With a percentage of people in the UCAS who are SINless--and thus effectively "probabtionary" citizens, what kind of line do you think might be drawn between where the CIA starts and the FBI takes over? I think this will also be important once we consider corporate citizenship, and whether a UCAS-born corporate citizen is within the scope of jurisdiction of the CIA. I figure this will become important in the discussion of the Directorate of Intelligence and what I would like to do in creating an "Office of Megacorporate Analysis," and even possibly a Megacorporate Operations Center similiar to the Counterterrorist/ Counterintelligence/ Information Operations Centers.

Yeah, that's quite likely.

Ah, the Venture Capital corp. Well, the interesting thing about the IC dealing with megacorps is that the IC quite possibly has as much experience as Wall Street in creating myriad holding, shell, and dummy corps. I think the CIA relationship with corporations will continue to be quite strong (The NSA I'm not so sure of), especially with the FedGov's cozy relationship with Ares.

They'd have to deal with NRO on the aerospace aspect (although I've read stories which seem to suggest it'll be another DoD agency if NRO doesn't get its shit together). But they'll still be very active in drone tech, no doubt. I'm sure they've still got people crawling all over the SCIRE.

The Department of Information was already in the Cabinet presented in NAGNA. I guess energy would fall to the Department of Resources (which appeared in PoaD and wasn't in the NAGNA). BTW before someone use him in the political background, the Secretary of Defense chosen in the first Haeffner Administration is Andrew Maykrantz, as says PoaD, but he didn't stay, and according to Corporate Download in 2060, a certain Michael Broder holds that office.

I think it was Tzeentch who already created the MANINT, for Mana Intelligence. I would support that one because detector combining FAB clouds with ultraviolet sensors seems a bit far from "thaumaturgy".

Ah, that's right. I always assumed that the DOE was bought by Shiawase during the beginning of the 21st century during the Resource Rush and FedGov selloff, especially given that Shiawase Atomics is HQ'd in FDC, and the nuclear component of the DOE would revert back to the DoD, but the rest... Yeah, Resources. Definitely. NRC and FERC are probably still around, too, though that's not for here. BTW, I thought Broder was first named in Target: UCAS(?). I assume the CD reference (too lazy to look ATM) is in the Ares chapter.

I like THAMINT better (Which is why I suggested it), but majority rules.

The DF ones would probably be Corporate. The ones who went freelance (and survived the whole schism, or whatever it was) would probably be Free Market.

I'd bet the PCC's agencies spends a great deal of time on these two issues...

Well, here's my take on it. Megacorporations are effectively treated as sovereign powers and can issue their own money, identification, and may grant effective citizenship. However, in countries such as the UCAS I am not aware of any sort of checkpoint (at least not on the UCAS's end) that exists for when corporate "citizens" leave the extraterritorial grounds of the arcology or whatnot, and UCAS proper. AFAIK they are legally citizens of the country, or possibly the true hardcore "citizens" are SINless--never having received an identity from the UCAS government, and therefore having the same legal rights as a squatter for all intents and purposes. Those people are not taxed since they essentially live "abroad" and do not have the same privileges of full citizens, but simply the rights afforded all persons who are in the UCAS--like the SINless are supposed to have. The problem is that granting citizenship is a sovereign right, which realistically, I can't believe for a second the corps or the countries would want to have for various reasons (even more reason not to piss off the corp. Outside the walls, they're no better than gutter scum in the UCAS' eyes. I re-read CD, and I did not get any indication that megacorps are able to grant citizenship per se, and I think it's more of a sybolic action.

Either way, I don't see any reason why the CIA couldn't share concurrent jurisdiction with law enforcement, especially since the extraterritoriality of the corps makes activities inside their property the IC's responsibility as foreign intelligence activity. I think that's why an office similar to the CTC should, and would, exist in the CIA so that IC members in their "foreign intelligence" role, and the FBI in the domestic intelligence/ counterintelligence/ federal investigatory roles and other law enforcement agencies in their investigatory roles can share (theoretically, of course) operational intelligence on Megacorp activity.

Given that in many cities the local cops themselves are megacorps, any corruption would probably be handled by federal law enforcement, especially given the interstate/ transnational commerce aspect of their activities and how their influence would be akin to foreign nationals' influence. That would generally make it federal jurisdiction anyway.

This is also something that bothers me. I find it difficult to believe that the restrictions on activities against UCAS citizens will exist in 2064 on principle as well as given the events in SR. I figure the biggest problem would simply be granting intelligence agencies effective law enforcement power domestically would be a drain on their resources in their missions directed to foreign threats and activities.

As for the Matrix, I don't see why not (and there's enough insinuation re: the NSA in the original Seattle SB to suggest it) the NSA can't spy on UCAS citizens if the law says so. Otherwise, the agency appointed to conduct Matrix Law Enforcement (Someone said the Marshals Service in one of the books with "Matrix" in the title), and/or the FBI (CT/CI); IRS Criminal Investigative Division, Secret Service, etc. (Financial crimes like money laundering, counterfeiting); Immigration and Customs Enforcement; etc. depending on exactly what is the nature of the investigation/intelligence collection.

OBTW, UCAS SecDef Michael Broeder was named in the Novatech chapter of CD, p. 71. It was not Ares as I first assumed.

In due time...

But no one has mentioned two of my favorite agencies, the IRS and the INS. These two agencies would have expanded their roles by 2061 I am sure, particularly the IRS. With all of the money laundering and the corporate court and special interest money flying through DC the IRS would have to increase their own intel. My favorite Shadowlands character, the Chromed Accountant, was a IIRC IRS agent, and dealt primarily with the criminal element in the financial world.

So what do others think? And if there is a canon reference to the Chromed Accountant and his previous employment that would be appreciated.

Veracusse

And Divination and Astral Quests, Horrors and Dragons. Maybe yes, maybe no with the DoT.

On the side, I can definitely see the CIA using "astral couriers" as in projecting mages used to ferry information from cover agents with less risk of interception than electronic systems.

If I remember Corporate Shadowfiles correctly, they were of ten.

Random example. I just gave the CIA an average rating scale with no Domestic because they can't and a high Analysis because they do. I actually thought about using the Ancients to show how it might work... Maybe I still will.

The only bad thing about this would be the independents and such. I say break them apart and have a "Stuff" about supporting agencies -like links to the agencies and areas of support. Though use the "total average" capabilities of the agency using its support and resources at its operational disposal.

Possibly, but don't lets go overboard. If they wanted they could walk out the door tomorrow and into a corporate job at probably double their salary. If they're in government work it probably means that they're either fairly patriotic or it's the best they're likely to get. Whilst magic can be important in some circumstances, it's not going to be any more so than IMINT or mundane sources and case officers on the ground. If anything, less so IMO.

The SSD has officially bodyguards' duties much like the US Secret Service, except that many agents are undercover in the staff of the people they protect. But it "acts as a bodyguard team." That's what is in the main text page 118. Then only the GM Game Information page 140 indicates they are doing counterintelligence work and sometimes black ops as well. So the statusand duties of that group doesn't seem to be yet fully known by the people outside of Yamatetsu.

Agreed. However, it seems like all Yamatetsu departments are expanding and bubbling out everywhere. The Naval Tech gets a SEAL and Intelligence in about a year (from CD to T:WL). The SSD is branching out, but isn't effective outside the corp in CD, but what about by 2064?

Christ, man. What are you? Blind?

I fixed it a few days back. Hopefully that works for you. There's nothing I can do about the table pages in the right frame. It's designed for 1024x768.

Yeah. Between the herniated disc and business as of late I haven't had hardly any time to deal with the intel site. Now I have a whole shitload to read in here in order to catch up with you guys. Might take me a while. Sorry I'm holding up the show, guys.

NSA? Elissa, International Woman of Mystery?

Um, all he did was make the text bold. You can do that by using the appropriate button on the post page, or by hand by typing {b}text to be bolded{/b}, except replace the {} with [].

Heh. Not quite. I was just an Air Force linguist, as was my husband. We'd been stationed in Hawaii at Kunia; I left the military while we were there. Afterward, he (we) were sent to Ft. Meade, where he went to work in the NSA building.