I've always preferred the approach that ally spirits are made to assist and aid the magician, as companions, servitors and the like (magical battery, guardians, etc.)

Leave the "greater magic bit" to the avatars.

I wouldn't allow allies to be taught things you "know" with skillchips - you don't really know them, and it can be very munchkinny.

I have to agree with AH here. As far as I can recall, every magical skill has to be natural, not chipped; so there's one precedent. Also, you don't actually "know" a chipped skill; you're just capable of using it.

that point is moot, tisoz, as even mundanes can bind a free spirit.

1) Conjurers (and anyone else with Magic 1 or higher) can learn the Sorcery skill. Saying they can't is a house rule.

2) An ally spirit created by a Conjurer with the Sorcery skill will have -- and be able to use -- Sorcery. That is an ally spirit ability, and ally spirits are in no way bound by their master's tradition or abilities any more than any other spirit is. Saying anything else is a house rule.

3) The problem is that in order for an ally spirit to learn a spell, it must be learned for them by their master. Learning a spell is a use of the Sorcery skill, which Conjurers cannot do because they cannot use the Sorcery skill in any appreciable way. The ally spirit, however, has full use of every other aspect of Sorcery, including Spell Defense and Dispelling which is more than enough of a reason for a Conjurer to bother learning the skill.

4) I've run and played in several games where a house rule was created to allow Conjurers to learn spells for their ally spirits, and there was nothing even remotely overpowered about it. Logically, it's silly that a master of conjuring should have the weakest ally spirits in the game, and since an ally spirit's spellcasting is based solely on their own stats, Force, and abilities, a Force 3 ally spirit should be just as powerful as any other Force 3 ally spirit in much the same way a Force 3 nature spirit conjured by a conjurer is just as powerful as any other Force 3 nature spirit. The Conjurer himself still can't cast a single spell, only command his ally spirit to if he had spent the same karma, time, and effort in teaching his ally spirit that spell as any other magician would have to. The fact that a Conjurer's ally spirit will never have a free spell is already a crippling aspect compared to other magicians.

5) Philosophyically, saying a Conjurer's ally spirit shouldn't be able to learn and use Sorcery is very similar to saying a Sorcerer shouldn't be able to use any spells relating to, or targeting, spirits (such as Spirit Bolt). The abilities of a Conjurer's spirits are seperate and distinct from their own abilities, just as the functions of a Sorcerer's individual spells are seperate and distinct from their own limitations.

points 1 and 3 are exactly what i think.

although i would be more than happy to stop there and not worry about learning spells for the ally. i was just trying to make sure the ally wouldn't be the most useless thing in the world, not having any spell defense. almost as bad as a sammy then.

As far as game balance goes, Conjurors are a great deal more limited than sorcerers are. They cannot use shielding foci, spell defence foci, or spell foci, expendable or resueable; nor can they use sustaining foci, anchoring foci, or power foci to full effect. Sorcerors are only restricted from using spirit foci.

And as far as metamagic goes, Sorcerors are only banned from two kinds-- Invoking and Channeling-- while Conjurors cannot learn shielding or reflecting; also, while the rules might not expressly say so, they effectively cannot use anchoring.

They can't really use Quickening, either.

On the question of whether conjurors can learn spells on behalf of their allies, I would say: Ask your GM. It really depends on how they interpret the rules, as well as how they see conjurors. Some see them as gimped awakened characters who only have some of the abilities of a full mage, while others see them as specialists who should be masters within their specialty. The latter are more likely to allow conjurors to learn spells on behalf of their ally spirits.

Thanks for clearing that up, Doc. I'm not sure I agree with you on point #5, but I appreciate you taking the time to bust it all down for us so lucidly. Whuffie.