Are totems external objects possessed of their own independent ontological status? Put another way, do totems predate human conception and exist independently of our apprehension of them? Has Wolf existed since "the dawn of time" and will exist long after humanity has vanished off the face of the earth? Did Wolf exist before there were wolves and will Wolf still exist even after wolves die out? Certain facts seem to support this, namely the extraplanar nature of insect totems, which (seem to) exist whether or not humanity is around.

Alternately, do totems arise from human thought? In other words, do totems exist because we've unconsciously created them and invested them with power? Because (to continue with the same example) wolves have held such a significant position in myth and have such great symbolic power (along with snakes, birds, horses, etc.), did an incalculably powerful spirit arise, fuelled by our collective "belief" (I'm using the term loosely)? Certain other facts seem to support this view, namely the urban totems.

I guess this is a variation on the old question, "if a tree falls in the forest and no-one's around, does it make a sound?" If humanity were suddenly wiped out, would the totems persist? Were they here before we were? Can new totems appear?

Totems are unknown that way. While the Passions of Earthdawn are described as having begun alongside those who follow them (simultaneous origin), totems are much less defined.

Powerful spirits can masquerade as totems, like queen insects for example. This does have the implication that all totems may just be powerful free spirits who choose to meddle in human affairs by taking followers and teaching them. There is the problem that each non-bug totem has its own metaplane, so either there are some metaplanes that get dressed up by the multiple totem spirits who have enough in common to share, every spirit has the potential of making a new metaplane, there is only one metaplane shaped by the viewer (which has problems explaining the ancestor and bug planes), or totems are exceptionally powerful and can not be classified merely as spirits regardless of their origin.

Totems do seem to mimic the mythical traits of the forms they represent (with animals at least), but that could be more due to a totem adopting a form and style that the humans will associate with the traits the totem holds. Or it could even be possible that there are many totems, but they only have traits and preferences while any name is given by the shaman who must forge an image to comprehend the totem in a familiar manner.

The totems are fictions, figments of the imagination formed by weak minds seeking an explanation for their powers. Insect Spirits operate similarly to "totems", but are entities in and of themselves—the relationship is real, not merely imagined.

~J

Totems are the spirit of the wild, of the living world! They were created soon before the Sky-Father created Man, although Man had a hand in changing some of them. The totems have existed since as long as there have been those animals, which is a mighty long time, and will continue to exist until the Sky-Father brings the heavens down.

Only the deluded few who have lost touch with their place of birth fail to see the truth of the totems. When their time comes, they will be unable to cross into the afterlife, and will be eaten by the Kicking Monster. But that's alright, they were pretty pushy anyway.

Can new totems arise as powerful new myths form? Can a sentient being "become" a totem? Can an idea become a totem?

I must ask, what of Toaster? Is it the archtype of all sloted cooking devices? It is the archtype of all bread cooking devices? Is it the archtype of the act of cooking bread? Did Toaster exist before bread or before electric cooking devices?

As interesting as nature totems are, I think tat the true nature of Totems can only be found by exploring the odd ones.

Toaster is just Fire-Bringer with a cord.

Is the Deep Resonance a totem?

This reminds me of a deep theological discussion on the importance of beer with regards to cultures and religions, from ancient Sumeria to the present day, held in one of our more comfortable taverns with a good deal of sampling.

Not to mention Toaster severely punishes those that intrude on it's alcove. (Knife and Fork Shamans have had a long standing and bitter rivalry with the Children of Toaster due to this as have those that drink deep from the knowledge of the Driver of Screws)

However, let us not forget the Shamans of Elvis.

You're analyzing the wrong metaphore. Fire-Bringer never taught humans how to steal from the gods, but it bestowed fire when once there was coldness. Toaster does not teach the method of its toasting, but it bestows tasty toast when once there was plain bread.

Or perhaps Toaster is an aspect of Giftbringer. The tasty toast is not shared with the masses but rather lorded over them by those whom serve Toaster to ensure their breakfast and BLT supremecy over the rest of meta humanity.

No, it isn'y unwarrented, because of Aina's reaction to the shaman convention in Worlds without End. When an immortal elf who's been alive since before Earthdawn thinks that shamans are fools who anthropomorphicize their own power to come from without, rather than within, there's some good evidence that they're deluded fools.

They can still be darn fun to play, though.

Or that Aina's wrong. Even immortals have prejudices.

Or (perhaps more likely) that Aina has ulterior motives and is willfully sowing disinformation.

As far a canon goes, I think the answer to that question has been intentionally left vague. But then again I’m not a master at the magic rules and I don’t have my rule books handy. As far as my group is concerned all the spirits (including Totems, Idols, etc and the Passions/Horrors before them) are gestalt thought constructs created out of (meta)human belief. So the Totems and other spirits didn’t exist prior to sentient life and have changed dramatically over time.

that doesn't mean she couldn't be wrong. the nature of magic could have changed, passing her by. magic may be cyclical, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's a binary cycle. it could be something like (0, 1, 0, 2, 0, 3...) and be either repeating or non-repeating. SR is the Sixth world, not the Return of the Second world.

Totems are intelligent metaplanes, their personalities are set. However, all the imagery and their names originate in the mind of the shaman, who is chosen by their resembelance to the set personality of the metaplane

Which is how I will feel until I hear tell of a shaman who was contacted by a rare animal Totem (say Gila monster or Prarie Dog) when they had *never* been exposed to the animal's name or picture, and had to spend a long time with a dictionary.