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QUOTE (Nikoli)
[ Spoiler ]

LOL.
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LinaInverse
Surprised I haven't seen this. This scenario reminds me a lot of a Star Trek TNG episode "Cause and Effect". For those who don't remember, the Enterprise is trapped in a time-loop, where it meets its death over and over (collides with a 23rd century trip driven by Fraiser).

The way they handled that in the story was that each time, the crew would "remember" more and more clues, until finally they are able to solve their crisis and get past the loop.
Heimdall
I'm a snakey bugger as a GM, but what I might suggest would be to give them a specific code clue as a precursor to the ending scene where they repeatedly die. For example, make the code something the decker character/team have discovered as "relevant" like a passcode, code name, contact name OR has importance to the decker character, maybe relating to his matrix personae/mothers maiden name, etc... Then, steal a moment from "The Usual Suspects" and make the code part of the coffee cup, so to speak. The decker has fabricated the key himself (via interrogation in Verbal's case), and comes to the realization he can modify his part in the "world", and thusly engineer their escape. It's kinda a self created Deja Vu. If youre not familiar with the movie, go rent it, excellent SR material.

Keyser Socye was a wussy
ShadowDragon8685
So V, how's it? I think you've got plenty to make a game on here. How's it going?

As far as not giving anything away, just make perception tests behind the DM screen for each of the players to see if they notice anything amiss.
Fresno Bob
Ever play Metal Gear Solid 2? You could run it like that, it starts breaking down slightly, and the guards shout out nonsense like the Colonel was doing.
Paul
QUOTE (hyzmarca)
Karl Kombat Mage: The game would probably use an enforced gesture or incantation gease.


And the player wouldn't notice that? Rememebr that magic doesn't require a psoken word, or gesture. Nothing. Unless the player choses to do that.

QUOTE
A UV host could get by with some limited mind reading.


That's crap. Absolute crap. I'd have been able to accept advanced prediction style programming or somethign equally stretched but mind reading? That's pretty far fetched to me.

The rest of your post is much more reasonable, and I like it better.
hyzmarca
QUOTE (Paul @ Aug 23 2005, 05:42 PM)
QUOTE (hyzmarca @ Aug 22 2005, 06:53 PM)

A UV host could get by with some limited mind reading.


That's crap. Absolute crap. I'd have been able to accept advanced prediction style programming or somethign equally stretched but mind reading? That's pretty far fetched to me.

The rest of your post is much more reasonable, and I like it better.

Not really, that is how datajacks and trodes work, afterall. They read your thoughts. There isn't too much difference between passively accepting mental commands and actively scaning for the character's intended action .

That is how the UV host in Dry Run worked. It read the characters' intentions and expectations.
Velocity
QUOTE (ShadowDragon8685)
So V, how's it? I think you've got plenty to make a game on here. How's it going?

My only regret is that I now have to leave on an eight-hour drive when I'd much rather spend the evening here, one window open to this forum thread and the other open to 'Adventure Notes.doc' smile.gif

Alas, 'tis not to be. I do promise that I'll look at these last few posts in more detail when I get back home Thursday morning (as well as any other ideas that come in over the next 36 hours -- hint, hint). wink.gif

So far you guys have all been awesome and there's a ton of food for thought here! As a small bit of repayment, I'll post my entire scenario write-up when it's done, so you can all make use of the finished product. smile.gif
Nyxll
QUOTE (Velocity)
My only regret is that I now have to leave on an eight-hour drive when I'd much rather spend the evening here, one window open to this forum thread and the other open to 'Adventure Notes.doc' smile.gif

Where are you heading? Anywhere close to Toronto? It would be cool to get together for a coffee with some of the people from the board once in a while, and discuss things in person. Or does that havea weirdness factor?
fistandantilus4.0
Also, not so much acutal Deja vu, but more in the mind " I feel like I've been here before". Or if they ever sleep, have them have recurring dreams of what they're doing. Also, have somethign random happen in combat. Something that doesn't make sense. Speed up time, and jsut make it seem like GM fiat. But keep doing it. Subtle things that mess with the players as much as the characters perceptions and makes them question. Liek they kill a gaurd without you rolling (or roll, but don't look). They'll start to wonder what's going on. Metagaming against your players, not their characters, is always great fun.
toturi
QUOTE (hyzmarca)
That is how the UV host in Dry Run worked. It read the characters' intentions and expectations.

If that is the case, then it would be very difficult to come up with a plausible reason why only the decker can come up with a way to break out of the UV since the host can read his mind.
ShadowDragon8685
He 'masters' the UV host in the way Neo 'masters' the Matrix? I dunno... Just make it fun, that's the important part.
Supercilious
QUOTE (Velocity)
QUOTE (mmu1 @ Aug 22 2005, 04:49 PM)
How could a host ever mimic magic? It'd need the ability to read the character's mind for that, becasue, AFAIK, there is no "magical" lobe of the brain it could monitor for neural activity... And if it can read the character's mind, then how can you justify leaving clues behing that the UV host somehow won't notice?

Curse you and your damned Vulcan logic! smile.gif I hadn't actually thought of that. Shit. Okay, back to square one with the shaman... grr.

I would argue that if the UV host can take thoughts and make your digital persona move according to your mental whim, that it could read your mind, atleast enough to be able to attempt to mimic an action.
Paul
Or it just interprets electrical nerve signals like the regular body does. If you have computers that "read minds", there isn't much that should be off limits in that fantasy world.
Velocity
Okay, I'm back! smile.gif


QUOTE (LinaInverse)
The way they handled that in the story was that each time, the crew would "remember" more and more clues, until finally they are able to solve their crisis and get past the loop.

That's sort of what I want to do here, except I only want the decker to experience that effect. Also, I don't want to roleplay through the "build-up" experiences... only the last one, where they figure out the truth.

QUOTE (Heimdall)
steal a moment from "The Usual Suspects" and make the code part of the coffee cup, so to speak.

"Kobayashi." Heh. smile.gif That's another great idea (*scribbles note*)!

QUOTE (Nyxll)
Where are you heading? Anywhere close to Toronto?

Went through Toronto, actually--both ways. Maybe next time we can get a coffee. smile.gif

QUOTE (ShadowDragon8685)
He 'masters' the UV host in the way Neo 'masters' the Matrix?

No offense, but that's exactly what I'm trying to avoid. I'm more interested in creating a sense of paranoia and impending doom as an apparent deathtrap closes around the PCs, then slowly relieving that fear with clues pointing toward a solution. The realization that they're trapped in a virtual world should bring with it a mixed sense of relief and horror.

I hope. smile.gif
Crusher Bob
One choice is to have the Decker's datajack be 'broken' (maybe he gets hit in the head with a baseball bat cyber.gif ), then give him access to some equipment to run a diagnostic on it. The datajack can show 'unusual usage' or 'clearly altered log information' or something similar when he looks at it. It will tip him off that something is going on...

Another option is to have his encephalon or math SPU (does he have either one of those) produce a 'human error' (ie 5 + 6 = 10, simply because that is what his brain 'expects') Then looking closer at his math-co SPU (which has its own clock) shows a lot of missing time...

Or maybe an alarm he programmed into the SPU ahead of time goes off:

June 6: Beep, remember to buy present of girlfriend's birthday

Decker: Huh? it's not June 6 yet...
Velocity
QUOTE (Crusher Bob)
Another option is to have his encephalon or math SPU (does he have either one of those) produce a 'human error' (ie 5 + 6 = 10, simply because that is what his brain 'expects') Then looking closer at his math-co SPU (which has its own clock) shows a lot of missing time...

The decker has a rating 2 Encephalon and a Math SPU--he's Mr. smarty-pants smile.gif

Okay, so based off of everyone's ideas I'm going to try writing up a preliminary sketch of the run and post it sometime this weekend. Thanks again for all the feedback you've submitted so far--there's been some great ideas here!
ShieldT
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Oh here's an idea: Have any hearth spirits Kong summons pay attention to the decker, almost like they're expecting to take orders from him. Have a particulary talkative one start making idle conversation with him abouth the architecture "What do you think of the doorframe? Do you like the weave of the carpet?" Right up to, but not including, "Is the floor tile convincing? How about the subtle play of light and shadow?" Because that'd be just giving it away. wink.gif

Have the mindwipes be partial, leaving the sense and a list of particular actions from previous attempts, but no memory of motives or emotions felt. Have pain stand out most of all as pain's a powerful training tool. Have the decker take advantage of this by methodically stabbing a series of code into his arm. When he wakes up the wounds will be gone, he may not remember that they were self-inflicted, but he will definitely have a lock on their position and by tracing the missing marks on his arm decipher the code. Heh. Maybe he has the sense that he's done it several times already but hasn't yet hit on the exact code that will survive his 'pain memory' without becoming hopelessly garbled. "I know that these three lines mean there was an A here, but the next's just a firey ball of pain.. Dot/poke, Slash/line, slash, dot, wavy? I must have run out of time or gotten weak from blood loss" etc. cool.gif
Sunday_Gamer
Obviously, I'm not reading this thread, but I thought I'd jump in with ideas.

VAST POOLS OF KARMA, stretching out in all directions!

Oh and some pizza, Monkey demands pizza... serve the Monkey!!

Kong.
Herald of Verjigorm
I'll adjust my suggestions into a way that doesn't require any picky magic emulation (even if there is precedent for a system handling it).
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Ryu
rotfl.gif All bow to Herald!

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Zeful
If the problem hasn't been resolved already. You can have the Johnson send another group of runners to find out what's happened to the first runners then have the other decker leave clues that they are in a UV host then inform them of a way out if any that should solve the problems. you can even use the methods above.

again if it's already taken care of i apologize for wasting your time
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