Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: System Failure preview
Dumpshock Forums > Discussion > Shadowrun
Pages: 1, 2, 3, 4
Blacken
QUOTE (Demonseed Elite)
Afterall, who knew that Villiers was a Yankees fan? nyahnyah.gif

Always knew he was morally corrupt.
Dashifen
Agreed. I loved that he'd pay bar owners to empty the place so he could watch the game without being beated to death by Red Sox fans wink.gif
hahnsoo
My complaint with the book is some of the information that we didn't get (damn word count). Like, what happened to Salish-Shidhe, Ute Nation, PCC, Sioux Nation, and the Tir during the Tree of Liberty section? Most notably...
[ Spoiler ]


Lots of fiction (and good fiction at that), but it was left a bit too open with a couple of the plot hooks, IMO. Also, I wish there was an exact date of the Novatech/Transys/Erika merger... right now, I know it's "Sometime after 2065, but sometime before October 2066", which is pretty vague. Same with when Yamatetsu changes to Evo. It would be nice to know more information about what exactly happened to Cross (other than the seized Ares assets... is it still in Quebec? Is it still a AA corp even after losing its seat? Is it no more?) and get some profile information on Horizon (which has been rather nebulous so far).
blakkie
QUOTE (hahnsoo @ Sep 2 2005, 01:02 PM)
....and get some profile information on Horizon (which has been rather nebulous so far).

On this i get the vague sense that we'll eventually see more. Lots more. Shooting to the top with a different style? In SR when "different" things have shown up it has has tended to translate roughly as "prone to ripping off the top of your skull and sucking out the slimy bits". But the first step is the distant view where all looks well and happy. Then step by step we get closer, and like that woman across the bar that looked good when she was still out of focus range of your beer goggles, as you get closer and closer the odd bits start showing up....until you wake up the next morning and decide it's time to go Coyote on your arm.

Or maybe i'm too paranoid even for SR? Nah, don't think that is possible. wink.gif
Shadow
Well one things for sure, I can retire my 'corporate Download' book.

[ Spoiler ]
JesterX
Seems that for us, Quebec residents, we don't get love anymore... frown.gif
hahnsoo
QUOTE (Shadow)
Well one things for sure, I can retire my 'corporate Download' book.

[ Spoiler ]

Not necessarily. A lot of the megas are identical to their previous incarnation, like Ares, Aztechnology, and S-K. Some have been given a boost (Novatech, Wuxing), while one just had a cosmetic name change (Yamatetsu -> Evo). The only real newcomer is Horizon (which there is NO information on other than the stuff in SOTA: 2064 and SR4). NeoNET is just an amalgamation of Transys Neuronet, Erika, and the old Novatech, but they gained so many new assets since the crash that they could be considered "brand new" as far as power players (being the 3rd largest megacorp in the Sixth World after S-K and Aztechnology in 2066-2070).
Shadow
Like I said, retire the book. smile.gif
hahnsoo
QUOTE (Shadow)
Like I said, retire the book. smile.gif

Retire the book because of 3 corporations, Horizon, Cross, and NeoNET? When there aren't any other good sourcebooks right now for them? When the other 8 Corporations in the book are virtually unchanged? (Ares still makes Guns, S-K is still run by a dragon, Azzies still use blood magic, etc.) That doesn't make sense. The only thing that we would really need is information on NeoNET and Horizon, but you can just as easily take the information written about Transys Neuronet and Erika in SoE and graft them on the Novatech corporate profile.
Synner
QUOTE (Dashifen @ Sep 2 2005, 06:35 PM)
Simply put, this was masterful work.  I applaud the authors (wish I could have been one!!) and truly enjoyed reading System Failure last night. 
:notworthy:  :notworthy:  :notworthy:

I know I speak for all of us when I say: Thanks for the praise.

For my part I was dying to get a chance to write some fiction as a change of pace from the usual Shadowland format, and I was even more inspired by the stuff I saw my fellow writers turn in. I believe System Failure has some really terrific fiction (and the plotting isn't half bad either) that really nails the atmosphere and chaos unfolding in the Sixth World often through the eyes of people who are oblivious to what's really going on. The fiction grounds everything in familiar references and faces so that when you get to the track chapters and put together what's truly going on, you've already got a dozen ideas bouncing around inside your head.
Shadow
Whos idea was it to have SK...

[ Spoiler ]
Synner
devil.gif Now that would have been me...
Shadow
Dude, you rock man, I thought that was freeking brilliant and totally in character with him.

notworthy.gif notworthy.gif notworthy.gif notworthy.gif notworthy.gif

And like I said before, totally worth the 18 bucks and a good read.

Just lose the swearing in the next books!
Synner
Thank you, credit also goes to Lars Blumenstein (who helped brainstorm the idea and who also worked the kinks out of Ymir and Surtr) and everybody who pitched in to make the whole book work this well.
SL James
QUOTE (Dashifen)
Agreed. I loved that he'd pay bar owners to empty the place so he could watch the game without being beated to death by Red Sox fans wink.gif

Then what the hell's the point of going to a bar?
blakkie
Self-indulgent extravagance? Or maybe his keg of draft at home went flat?
hahnsoo
He wanted to be "where everyone knows your name." In this case, just the bartender and Miles Lanier. smile.gif
FrostyNSO
<=======Seriously happy that my character sunk his assets into GOLD.
Elve
QUOTE (Synner)
And you should see some of the nastinesses besides Surtr and Ymir that didn't make the cut... devil.gif

Any chance to get the whole cut stuff?
Synner
I'll see what I can do but no promises at this point. I'm not sure how things work with regards to unpublished material.
Elve
If all else fail, I'll even accept email nyahnyah.gif
Supercilious
No one has to know, Synner... nuyen.gif nuyen.gif nuyen.gif

God damn I need to buy this book really, really, bad.
Kagetenshi
QUOTE (Demonseed Elite)
I like that SR4 is giving the writers more room for fiction in the sourcebooks

I liked it too, until I read Buzzkill.

~J
Dashifen
QUOTE (Shadow)
Just lose the swearing in the next books!

Actually, I'm refreshed and proud of the swearing in both SR4 and SF. The "pretend" curse words (i.e. drek and frag) while a part of shadowrun history and style always seemed contrived and silly to me. I curse like a ******* sailor in real life and when I game and I guess I like it when the ******** books ******** curse back at me.
winterhawk11
QUOTE (Kagetenshi)
QUOTE (Demonseed Elite @ Sep 2 2005, 01:52 PM)
I like that SR4 is giving the writers more room for fiction in the sourcebooks

I liked it too, until I read Buzzkill.

~J

You know, it's easy to toss glib statements like that around, but it might be more helpful if you actually said something about why you don't like Buzzkill.

As an author I've got a pretty thick skin--if you don't like it, that's fine, but constructive criticism is more useful than hit-and-run potshots.
Kagetenshi
Got it.

1) Buzzword bingo. You manage to drop AR and PAN on the first page when there's no need for specific terminology, and absolutely no need for acronyms that won't be expanded for some time. This practice continues.

2) (Minor/subjective) Unrealistically low payouts. A team of five runners hired for a job, even an easy one, for less than a Low lifestyle cost for each of them? For any four, even?

3) Awkward phrasing/too much exposition for the sake of introducing game concepts unnecessarily. "He paused, for a second taking on the unfocused stare of somebody mentally accessing an AR visual display, and finally nodded." is a prime example.

4) Awkward phrasing in general. "Zumi swatted him gently (for her) across the top of the head." is an example. Dropping the "gently (for her)" doesn't appear to lose anything—context already shows that this isn't a serious offensive action, and it still gets that aspect of her personality across.

I'm just back from an eight-hour hike, so I'll have to punt the rest of my critique until tom—later today.

~J
winterhawk11
I can see some of your points, but you do realize that this story wasn't just meant to be a nifty fiction piece at the beginning of the book--it was also meant to introduce the very game concepts you found annoying, and to give readers/players an example of what some of this new stuff looked like in practice rather than just as numbers on a page.

Thanks for the comments, though. I was beginning to wonder if anybody was going to say anything about it. Sure, praise is always better, but even criticism means somebody actually read the story and paid enough attention to actually find stuff to criticize. smile.gif
hahnsoo
I will say I like Buzzkill much better than the story at the beginning of SR3. But few in-game sourcebook fiction really compares to "Plus Ca Change" at the beginning of SR2, in my humble opinion.
Ancient History
Neddy and Nameless were special.
fistandantilus4.0
I'll say. Since I haven't seen the book yet, any hope of seeing Neddy on SF? Been wondering what happened to that guy ever since his little teaser-post in VR2.0. I went and bought the first on Amazon just to get his story again.
Ancient History
I believe you are mistaking Neddy, the magcian, with Renny, the Halberstam experiment that escaped.
blakkie
QUOTE (winterhawk11 @ Sep 2 2005, 09:46 PM)
Re: Buzzkill

I thought it was ok to good. I did find it felt like it was a bit forced occationaly where it seemed to be going out of it's way to introduce a world concept. I know introduction to the world was likely a high priority goal, and it was throughout, and exposition is tough. Just a couple of spots it felt forced. I don't remember the exact location at the moment. If it comes to me i'll post it later if you are interested.
fistandantilus4.0
QUOTE (Ancient History @ Sep 3 2005, 01:23 AM)
I believe you are mistaking Neddy, the magcian, with Renny, the Halberstam experiment that escaped.

I AM! DAMN ME!
I feel that I have failed myself frown.gif

Edit: So who the hell is Neddy then?
Good ol' AH, always there to make sure we don't screw up his carefully organised and cataloged facts. Thanks man
MYST1C
QUOTE (fistandantilus3.0)
Edit: So who the hell is Neddy then?

Nathaniel "Neddy" Fortescue, hermetic mage and one of the protagonists of the opening fiction in SR2.
JongWK
QUOTE (JesterX)
Seems that for us, Quebec residents, we don't get love anymore... frown.gif

Just remember that Aurelius may still be around, with cash to spare and some Seraphim goodness to boot. wink.gif
Cynic project
QUOTE (hahnsoo)
NeoNET is just an amalgamation of Transys Neuronet, Erika, and the old Novatech, but they gained so many new assets since the crash that they could be considered "brand new" as far as power players (being the 3rd largest megacorp in the Sixth World after S-K and Aztechnology in 2066-2070).

And didn't Ares take over large parts of Cross? I got the impression that the three bigest AAA's were S-K, Ares and NeoNet. It not being clear on the scale what UCAS AAA was bigger.
Rotbart van Dainig
SK, Atztechnology and NeoNet - in that order, AFAIS.
Rotbart van Dainig
QUOTE (Synner)
Thank you, credit also goes to Lars Blumenstein (who helped brainstorm the idea and who also worked the kinks out of Ymir and Surtr) and everybody who pitched in to make the whole book work this well.

Well, concerning Surtr.. somehow, the term dust explosion comes to mind... sarcastic.gif
hahnsoo
QUOTE (Cynic project)
And didn't Ares take over large parts of Cross? I got the impression that the three bigest AAA's were S-K, Ares and NeoNet. It not being clear on the scale what UCAS AAA was bigger.

Just to recap, in the 2050s, the two largest corporations were Fuchi (not hard to see why, seeing as it was effectively 3 corps in one) and SK, with Aztechnology running 3rd.

When Fuchi dissolved in 2059, the two largest corporations became SK and Aztechnology. Novatech was dead last (barely a AA megacorp). I'm not sure who would be in 3rd place, but definitely not Ares. I'm guessing Shiawase (the only Japanese mega that didn't have some sort of catastrophic fallout story-wise in the corp war) or MCT.

After the events of System Failure, Novatech merges with Erika and Transys Neuronet to become NeoNET. In the fiction written there, they are listed as the 3rd largest megacorp in the world. It isn't likely that Aztechnology and S-K have relinquished their top two spots.

In all of this, Ares was always the largest UCAS Mega, but there were really only two UCAS Megas: Ares and Novatech. Ares hovers at around 7th or 8th place compared to the other AAA megas.
Kagetenshi
AA + AA + AA == AAA[2]? That makes no sense to me.

~J
hahnsoo
QUOTE (Kagetenshi)
AA + AA + AA == AAA[2]? That makes no sense to me.

~J

Well, Novatech got a LOT of money from the IPO, despite the Crash, and gained a boatload of assets afterwards, diversifying into all sorts of industries (in effect, this made them an "official" AAA Megacorp instead of a AA Megacorp with a Corporate Court seat). Novatech was listed as being smaller than 2 AA Megacorps and equal in size to 4 others before the IPO and Crash. The addition of Transys Neuronet and Erika as well as "ownership" of the lucrative WMI contracts worldwide puts NeoNET in a strong position. Considering how big Transys Neuronet and Erika were before the merger, it's quite believable.
Kagetenshi
QUOTE (winterhawk11 @ Sep 2 2005, 11:16 PM)
I can see some of your points, but you do realize that this story wasn't just meant to be a nifty fiction piece at the beginning of the book--it was also meant to introduce the very game concepts you found annoying, and to give readers/players an example of what some of this new stuff looked like in practice rather than just as numbers on a page.

While there were some other things I didn't like about the story (which I'll address later just on general feedback-is-good principle), the buzzword bingo is without a doubt the foremost amongst the things that bother me personally about the story, and the aspect that, if used elsewhere, makes me least excited at the prospect of more fiction.

If we're going to assume that the fiction's purpose was (to a significant degree) to introduce those concepts, it failed. The first section drops the term AR and associates a call and a translucent image with it, but doesn't make it at all clear what those are. Likewise with the PAN—I just noticed, but you even make an error here that will confuse the issue. "I got to the bar twenty minutes early, automatically subscribing my PAN to the place’s net", you write, both offering no clues as to what the PAN is other than the general idea that it's something computer-related that can communicate with other things and mistaking the network for the device. The statement makes about as much sense as saying "I connected my LAN to the Dumpshock Forums" when I came here this morning.

Later on you do a good job (as I remember it) of introducing the idea of information-sharing through a team's network. The difference? You describe such a system in action rather than a "this is the name, this is what it does" (or, as on the first page, just the name without even exposition to give clues to function). If you'd done something like that here it probably would have worked out. As it stands, it doesn't.

~J
SL James
QUOTE (hahnsoo @ Sep 3 2005, 01:24 PM)
When Fuchi dissolved in 2059, the two largest corporations became SK and Aztechnology.  Novatech was dead last (barely a AA megacorp).  I'm not sure who would be in 3rd place, but definitely not Ares.  I'm guessing Shiawase (the only Japanese mega that didn't have some sort of catastrophic fallout story-wise in the corp war) or MCT.

Shiawase, then MCT, then Renraku by 1 point each in Corporate Download.
Autarkis
QUOTE (Kagetenshi)
QUOTE (winterhawk11 @ Sep 2 2005, 11:16 PM)
I can see some of your points, but you do realize that this story wasn't just meant to be a nifty fiction piece at the beginning of the book--it was also meant to introduce the very game concepts you found annoying, and to give readers/players an example of what some of this new stuff looked like in practice rather than just as numbers on a page.

<snip>

~J

I think the intro fiction was pretty good, not novel good or series of books good, but okay for standard RPG fare. It was a good job compressing game mechanics in a limited amount of words (I would be interested to know if you were over/under.) As someone who has to "yell" at writers to decrease the number of words so it can fit in press releases and shareholder mailings, I think you did an adequate job introducing new players to world.
Nath
QUOTE (Kagetenshi)
AA + AA + AA == AAA[2]? That makes no sense to me.

If you take the assets rating of Erika, Transys and Novatech, and combine them, just taking the highest value of the three in each sector, the grand total for NET reaches 89, the same than Aztechnology. Personally, I do not like this assets rating system, but that's a whole different debate ; at least they're coherent with their own system, which was used for past ranking. Remember that Transys brings in big cybernetic and biotech business, on-par with Yamatetsu, while Novatech scored just in the average there.
Synner
QUOTE (hahnsoo @ Sep 3 2005, 07:46 PM)
The addition of Transys Neuronet and Erika as well as "ownership" of the lucrative WMI contracts worldwide puts NeoNET in a strong position.  Considering how big Transys Neuronet and Erika were before the merger, it's quite believable.

How this unfolds is partially covered in the Matrix 2.0 chapter of System Failure. The WMI protocols and beta-tech allow Transys and Erika to cash in big time on licensing and future co-development (in fact IIRC S-K itself licenses the tech right off the bat so it doesn't fall behind), giving them significantly more clout than 2 AAs are expected to hold. Even though several corps are just behind them in developing similar tech, this makes them a truck load of money. Add in Novatech cash flushed by the IPO and the NeoNET merger is definitely an heir to Fuchi's old crown (in more ways than one as Villiers finds out the hard way) - as the list of commlinks in SR4 testifies.

The real issue is how Celedyr is taking these events...
fistandantilus4.0
that's what I was wondering about. Villiers goes from fighting off two opposing factions to ...... fighting off two opposing facctions!? One of which is a dragon of course.

Richard Villiers - "I'm gettin' to old for this shit."
Demonseed Elite
QUOTE
that's what I was wondering about. Villiers goes from fighting off two opposing factions to ...... fighting off two opposing facctions!? One of which is a dragon of course.

Richard Villiers - "I'm gettin' to old for this shit."


The epilogue fiction in System Failure says it well. smile.gif
hahnsoo
QUOTE (fistandantilus3.0)
that's what I was wondering about. Villiers goes from fighting off two opposing factions to ...... fighting off two opposing facctions!? One of which is a dragon of course.

Richard Villiers - "I'm gettin' to old for this shit."

Not to mention his old Fuchi enemies are STILL around, and growing in power (check out what is happening in Shiawase).
JongWK
"Double or nothing."

They probably have a monument of Villiers in Las Vegas. wink.gif
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Dumpshock Forums © 2001-2012