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Aku
QUOTE (Kagetenshi)
QUOTE
my Steet Sam isn't a discrete piece of work.

Your street sam isn't a distinct individual and blurs into other street sams around her? That's a new one.

The Herald has my vote. Though swap out poison for a nice coating of Dread Iota.

~J

umm, Kage, he said discrete, meaning like, stealthy, not distinct, which is what you said, and what you defined...heh...
Crusher Bob
Well, dictionary.com says:

QUOTE

dis·crete  Audio pronunciation of "discrete" ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (d-skrt)
adj.

  1. Constituting a separate thing. See Synonyms at distinct.
  2. Consisting of unconnected distinct parts.
  3. Mathematics. Defined for a finite or countable set of values; not continuous.



I'll assume he meants:

QUOTE

dis·creet  Audio pronunciation of "discreet" ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (d-skrt)
adj.

  1. Marked by, exercising, or showing prudence and wise self-restraint in speech and behavior; circumspect.
  2. Free from ostentation or pretension; modest.



It's a have dessert in the desert while disserting with your fellow deserters type thing.

Critias
Y'know, on SL, we would'a just gone and shot one another IC by now, had the whole thing smoothed over, and moved on with the game. Damn. You guys know how to whine. For real, I feel like I'm watching some shit on the WB, kids. Chill.
Jrayjoker
That is quote worthy...
SFEley
QUOTE (Herald of Verjigorm)
QUOTE (ShadowDragon8685 @ Sep 5 2005, 12:19 PM)
And, umm, poison-coated halberds? That's new.

Swords and daggers are overdone. Arbitrarily selected polearms with an injection vector poison need more publicity.

Polearms? How mundane.

I think they should fight with poisonous flowers:

The avern is not, as I had assumed, merely a viper-toothed mace. Its leaves can be detached by twisting them between the thumb and forefinger in such a way that the hand does not contact the edges or the point. The leaf is then in effect a handleless blade, envenomed and razor-sharp, ready to throw. The fighter holds the plant in his left hand by the base of the stem and plucks the lower leaves to throw with his right. Agia cautioned me, however, to keep my own plant out of my opponent's reach, since as the leaves are removed an area of bare stem appears, and this he might grasp and use to wrest my plant from me.

When I flourished the second plant and practiced striking out with it and picking and throwing the leaves, I found that my own avern was likely to be almost as great a danger to me as the Septentrion's. If I held it near me, there was a grave danger of pricking my arm or chest with the long lower leaves; and the flower with its swirling pattern held my gaze whenever I glanced down to tear off a leaf, and with the dry lust of death sought to draw me to it. All this seemed unpleasant enough; but when I had learned to keep my eyes away from the half-closed blossom, I reflected that my opponent would be exposed to the same dangers.

-- Gene Wolfe, The Shadow of the Torturer

pragma
QUOTE (Kagetenshi)
The Herald has my vote. Though swap out poison for a nice coating of Dread Iota.

~J


Going to have to nix that one. WE want to survive (at least I do).

My vote would be for monowhips (or sensible discourse).
Ryu
Sensible discourse? What planet you come from?

Lets try this:
Spectre, how on earth do you help Aku by making one more game not happen? Your soldierboy would not be able to suggest a route of action that involves his skills? His fixer was part of the planning session, as an outsider? There is no position for a merc in an ambush? Even if you sneak in, you never use heavily armed samurai as backup/distraction?

I do understand the posibility of personal differences with SD based on his style of communication shown in this thread. I don´t get your justification for bailing out. Sometimes "fully roleplaying" a char is worse than letting the problem slide and get to playing the run. Especially as there would have been a place for you in SDs plans.
=Spectre=
Ryu:

I didn't intend for anyone to stop playing. I saw an endlessly LONG drawn out debate(Much like the one everyone here has been engaged in) over the use of force versus subtlety spinning up from my hesitancy. And rather than turn it into that debate, I told myself it was better to jsut back my character out for this one run and focus on getting everyone else through it as quickly as possible. As for my merc suggesting a course of action, I did that several times during the meeting, but SD shot them down. I suggested detonating the truck transport we were going to use to move the scientist and incinerating any evidence. That was too complicated. I wanted to suggest taking the scientist into the barrens where the law wouldn't follow, but by then, SD was full into planning mode. And his plan was fooling everyone as much as possible.

Please understand, I went strictly off of what was said and done in character. SD says that he wanted another gun for this run. When I said I was backing out, I did so in front of Kachina and SD's character. I didn't just get up and walk. I said I was backing out, stated the reasons, fielded the questions that followed, left my number with the Johnson, finished my drink and THEN walked out. I gave everyone, including the Johnson, a chance to say before she left "Hey wait. Maybe we will need a gun, just in case." I got silence on that. So I thought they were cool with it, and stepped out. I didn't get mad. I just re-directed myself to helping Aku.

And as I've said twice before now, I was asked to play the fixer. I thought Aku just wanted to deal with one NPC, and I was cool with that. I tried to work with the group as the fixer as best as I could. I took everyone's presence into account, tried to negotiate a better deal for the group rather than the fixer and my sammy, and gave SD control of negotiations once he stepped up to them, since I didn't want an NPC to be the one making price decisions.

Lastly, there probably was a place for a mercenary in the run. But from the way SD was speaking, he didn't want anything close to a fight. He said at least twice after I'd left the run that the group could do this without firing a single shot. I thought that he had this planned out and detailed enough to run with it. I don't understand why he went scrambling for guns after saying that.

Are there personal differences between SD and I? Yes. I won't deny it, and I won't go into them again. But I saw several possibilities for the game. One was that the group would run without me, and the run would succeed. They'd get paid, they'd get karma, and Aku would get experience. Another possibility was that I could overreact in a given moment, cut loose with some gunfire, wreck SD's planned run, and ruin the game for the night as people complained at me for playing a trigger happy sam. All of this spun off SD's words that he can do this without a fight. So how do I know that he will want or need a gun after saying that.
Jrayjoker
If the point is to get a game going, then play for God's sake.

Next time, if somone is heartset on being in charge, let them do it and back their play. Let the GM handle the surprises, a caharacter walking out (even if you did drop some heavy hints and expect to be brought back in) is a big surprise. And frankly, all the talk of "my people" this and "my people" that was a little confusing to me. I thought spectre was a PC in this exchange, not someone elses fixer.

If Aku needs experience, then just play. If another character or player gets abusive, puts you on ignore, etc. then deal with it, but don't try to play with them again. That is no fun for anyone.

Realistically it just sounds to me like you guys were having a conversation where noone could agree on the vocabulary. Maybe you didn't state clearly enough that you were a fixer for a couple hired guns, and planning should account for this. Stealth missions always need fire support, so no need to bow out just because it was a sneaky run. SD appears to have wanted to drive the plot forward, and may have come off as overbearing to spectre.

Being in character is great, but go OOC and explain your intentions. You may be trying to get into character and talk like your character would, but if noone else can understand your meaning, then it is a wasted effort. Go OOC and state clearly your intention, and let AKU decide if the other PCs understood your intentions, or if they need to roll to figure it out.

You guys aren't communicating enough OOC to plan. If you table to RO and there is no OOC chatter, how do you guys get anything done? You don't.

If you guys are ever going to play again with Aku as GM, then work on the IC and OOC stuff so you can communicate effectively and plan without pissing each other off.

SD, don't railroad other players with your master plans, it is immature and you should act like a team and plan with (not for) others.

Specter, don't assume everyone knows what is going on in your head. Explain yourself more fully OOC and IC if necessary. And try not to walk out of the next session, even if your character would, just to see what happens.

Now you two go shake hands and make up. Obviously you guys are into roleplaying, and getting into character, but it is only a game.

So in summary. I hate you all and I want you to die. JK
Ryu
This version of events I get. Thank you.

"No shot fired"-runs still need planning for a firefight. But I concede that you are not the one to teach that lesson to someone you don´t get along with well. I already said that I consider the ressources present after you left sufficient for the job.

To come back to SDs reason for this thread, I would suggest less fear of the term corp, and less fear of aggression. If you have a gm with common sense, as you seem to have, the expressed and believable threat of force is often sufficient to "win". The willingness to shoot removes the need to do so. Neat, hu?

On massive renegotiation: The universe/gm expect a certain amount of haggling, but consider the basic payscale fair. Play along, discuss outside and after the game if necessary. Generally speaking, its better to accept a compromise and move on.
ShadowDragon8685
QUOTE (Jrayjoker)
*snip*
So in summary. I hate you all and I want you to die.

Fixed. smile.gif


Oh, and I think I may know WHY =Spectre= was so hostile to me.

A few weeks ago, when Aku tried to get this thing running again, this was take 1 of my first game (the one where MY character precipitated the walk-on on J,) =Spectre= was playing the crazy-mage. The one who didn't belong to any official SR3 school of magic. No.

HER school of magic was one where she allows herself to be possessed by a Spirit of Great Form 8 or higher... Or whatever it takes to get Immunity to Normal Weapons.

Did I mention that this spirit is not only powerful, but very hostile, and likes to pick on the other PCs? Threatening to rip my character apart to find out where she got her cyber. Taking a point-blank shot from an Ares Predator to the chest.


Yeeah. After I told the DM I was quitting because I wasen't going to play with such an overwhelming munchkin, the DM tried to get us both to stay. I guess I figured that this person wasen't playing in this run. I guess now I know why s/he was being such a bitch to me.

Meh. I just don't really care anymore.
Jrayjoker
Well, there you go. And I don't really hate you all. I was just kidding.

I still think communication is imperative for good planning and role playing, but if one character is overtly hostile to another, not much is going to solve it.

Good luck finding another game.
=Spectre=
*sigh* I was waiting for this to snap from SD. Honestly thought he would have said it sooner.

First, yes I admit, I made a Shaman based on something I came up with. I love coming up with new content for Shadowrun, which is the most wide spread and distinct generation system ever created. I consulted with Aku first before I set finger to keyboard, and showed him two drafts of my work which the creation rules alone totaled out to just over three pages. I told him that nothing was set in stone. He had 100% carte blanche to decide now or at any point in the game to strip, modify, add or otherwise balance the information I showed him to suit his tastes. I was planning to detail things further in another document, but I didn't want to overwhelm Aku at first. Let himd rink in what he had, get a feel for it, get his input on what he wants changed before I add more details. When I get a vibe going with new content, I can do 20-30 pages easy if I don't stop and say "God this will gag my GM/ST/DM" And I had a great one going for this.

Second, while I was unique, I was not the most powerful. That award goes to a TRUE Free Spirit masquerading as a human shadowrunner. I thought it was a really cool concept and was hoping to see more of it. But that didn't happen as you'll see below.

As I'm coming up with my character, Aku gives me SD's information, and he and I start talking. After we finish playing, SD asks me a number of times to do a small post-meet scene after the first session. Get to know your character. Normally, I don't do those with people I haven't RPed with before because they tend to end up exactly like this conversation has. But I caved in this once because I thoguht SD had built a really strong character and the RP we had at the meet did make me as a player want to know more about the character.

We get started, and SD does his level best to show off his character's toys, going so far as to pick me up in his working vehicle with his steel lynx combat drones in the back seat, all armed and ready for a fight. I play it fairly close to the vest, but SD's character was a bit chipper and constantly trying to get my character to look on the brighter side of things. So when I show him what my character can do, he gets into a major twist over it. I admitted that I made a rules error with him after I checked the Critters book for the rules Immunity to Normal Weapons. But he tore off on how I was unbalanced and twinkish and the GM had absolutely no way to control me and that I would eventually kill the whole party. Now, I do know that there was a bit of a problem regarding SD's character as he wasn't allowed to create custom gear. This was all as I was begging him to let me send him the rules so he could see what I'd made, which he never did. Even worse, Aku wasn't on at the time, so I couldn't get him in to try and calm things down.

Ultimately, SD stopped talking with me, and Aku decided to erase the first sessions and restart with all new characters, under more stringent guidelines. Which brings us to this session here. I didn't even know SD was playing until I showed up and saw him in the room. if I had known, I would have said to Aku that I didn't want to upset his game with the stuff going on between SD and I and bowed out. I didn't think he got over it that easily, and the lack of communication meant that he was still a powder keg for an in game explosion.
ShadowDragon8685
Anybody that can take a 9DD shot from a Predator without having to roll resist is broken. Even if you're rolling about 24 resist die and can soak the sucker straight into the pavement, you should still have to resist, and still get hurt, even if it's just "Ooof!"

And Spectre, I didn't even know it was you until like, a day or two ago.
Aku
extinguish.gif

ok guys, let keep this on the original problem, can we?

i have fully admited to everyone involved i think, that the FIRST round, was a total fuckup by me, i tried to play a hard line, and but then let multiple characters slip through on coolness alone. bad me, BAAD me, BAAAAD ME!

thus, why i reset, and this time, i stuck to my guns (i think), so lets not rehash old, irrevelent problems
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