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Xenith
So why bother to reply to it? To make yourself feel important? Lashing out at random does not help. Your anger at a game has apparently been misplaced. Again, grow up.
Shadow_Prophet
QUOTE (hahnsoo)
Erm, back to Technomancers and SINs, a regular commlink doesn't necessarily have the actual information of the SIN stored on it (although it might). What it has is references to banks, ID databases, various different locations that constitute your identity (to use 20th century examples, your D/BMV driver's license, your passport, bank accounts, etc.). Whenever someone does an ID check, they aren't comparing against the information on your Commlink (that would be WAY silly)... they are comparing against the identity displayed by your commlink versus a handful (or perhaps a hundred, who knows?) other locations on the Matrix.

On a side note, any time a Technomancer needs storage, they can dump it to a device at hand (an old commlink in the pocket, whatever) or a remote onine location.

EDIT: Oh, and as far as sprites, you can register sprites to have them around effectively "permanently". Unlike spirits, they don't mind being "bound" much.

Um actualy acording to sr4 comlinks DO contain the SIN.

QUOTE
It used to be that one’s SIN and other forms of identifi cation
were all stored on credsticks, pen-sized tubes that served
simultaneously as ID and credit card. Since the Matrix went
wireless, however, all of this information was transferred to the
commlink, and credsticks only survive as certifi ed but relatively
anonymous means of payment. In addition, all of a person’s
credentials and necessary personal data (licenses, credit history,
health insurance, cred accounts, etc.) are stored in encrypted
form on her commlink (with a default Encryption rating of 5).
For privacy reasons, this information is usually not broadcast
as part of their personal profi le for social networking, though
some high-security areas may require that key information
(particularly name & SIN) be broadcast.


And they do compare whats on your comlink vs whats the SIN databases say to verify the information. Like a police officer might take your license to scan through the database to see if there are any outstanding charges against you.

And I'm not sure where you're getting that sprites don't mind being registered. Another quote from SR4

QUOTE
UNCONTROLLED SPRITES
Similar to spirits, most sprites resent an attempt
by a technomancer to script it and force
it into long-term servitude. If during the registering
procedure the technomancer is knocked
out from Fading or rolls a critical glitch, the
sprite goes uncontrolled in the same manner as
an uncontrolled spirit (p. 180). An uncontrolled
sprite owes no further tasks to the technomancer.
Though sprites are not (usually) as
vengeful as spirits and will not attempt to kill
the technomancer who tried to register them,
they do tend to have a mischevious streak and
will take the opportunity to wreak whatever
havoc they can.


They're not as vengeful but that doesn't mean they like it any more or less than spirits do.
Aristotle
I don't use them. They don't exist (in my take on Shadowrun). Most, if not all, of the otaku were claimed by the crash.
hyzmarca
QUOTE (Fortune @ Sep 13 2005, 04:34 PM)
How does that explain newly-created Technomancers, who never had a Datajack to start with, and were not plugged into the Matrix when the Crash 2.0 happened?

Nanites in bodily fluids?

Anyone who is bitten by a technomancer and survives will become a technomancer on the next full moon.... cool.gif
blakkie
@hyzmarca

notworthy.gif notworthy.gif notworthy.gif
blakkie
QUOTE (Shadow_Prophet)
And I'm not sure where you're getting that sprites don't mind being registered.

I think you missed the word "much" on the end. While that still is likely inaccurate, i think he based it off how they react when freed.

QUOTE
...
Though sprites are not (usually) as
vengeful as spirits and will not attempt to kill
the technomancer who tried to register them,
...


I don't think that really means they are more tolerant of it, more likely it just means they have a somewhat more pleasant temperament. Although that could be the result of being more tolerant of being scripted.
hahnsoo
QUOTE (Shadow_Prophet @ Sep 13 2005, 07:17 PM)
Um actualy acording to sr4 comlinks DO contain the SIN.

Not if you are hacker and you've edited this information, probably as part of the usual "spoof datatrail" operation that most hackers will do periodically (along with the usual effect of changing your commlink's access ID). I did say that commlinks didn't necessarily have the SIN information, although they might. It would be absurd if a commlink could not be edited to change your personal information (including no information at all), and it would be absurd if the commlink was the ONLY place your SIN was stored. After all, the SIN is just a number, and if you look on p260, most of the personal information is duplicated across multiple databases. The trick is setting your commlink to duplicate an existing ID (fake or real). If you were a technomancer, it would amount to rote memorization of the details, or simply having the information available in a commlink or a remote data storage.
Shadow_Prophet
QUOTE (blakkie)
QUOTE (Shadow_Prophet @ Sep 13 2005, 06:17 PM)
And I'm not sure where you're getting that sprites don't mind being registered.

I think you missed the word "much" on the end. While that still is likely inaccurate, i think he based it off how they react when freed.

QUOTE
...
Though sprites are not (usually) as
vengeful as spirits and will not attempt to kill
the technomancer who tried to register them,
...


I don't think that really means they are more tolerant of it, more likely it just means they have a somewhat more pleasant temperament. Although that could be the result of being more tolerant of being scripted.

Yes well they won't kill you but they'll screw up your day in other ways...they have a mischeviouse streak instead of a violent one.
Shadow_Prophet
QUOTE (hahnsoo)
QUOTE (Shadow_Prophet @ Sep 13 2005, 07:17 PM)
Um actualy acording to sr4 comlinks DO contain the SIN.

Not if you are hacker and you've edited this information, probably as part of the usual "spoof datatrail" operation that most hackers will do periodically (along with the usual effect of changing your commlink's access ID). I did say that commlinks didn't necessarily have the SIN information, although they might. It would be absurd if a commlink could not be edited to change your personal information (including no information at all), and it would be absurd if the commlink was the ONLY place your SIN was stored. After all, the SIN is just a number, and if you look on p260, most of the personal information is duplicated across multiple databases. The trick is setting your commlink to duplicate an existing ID (fake or real). If you were a technomancer, it would amount to rote memorization of the details, or simply having the information available in a commlink or a remote data storage.

while that seems somewhat plausible I'm not see where it meshes with the rules there.

I've read things in sr4 about 3 or 4 times in this regard. And I've come to the following conclusions based on the information stated there.

-You store all your personal data, sin, licenses, bank data, on your Commlink.

-In certain security zones you are required to broadcast this and allow the sin and license data to be scaned and verified.

-A fake sin would be just that. A fake sin instead of a real one in that little package of data on your commlink. The fake sin is provided by someone else.

-The datatrail deals with your accessID, which every commlink has and must spoof it to begin with

-Technomancers have no organic storage. Thus on themselves can't store that information, they would atleast need another form of storage.

So if they have to store this information does that device have to take up a subscriber slot just so the technomancer can allow the data to be accessed? Theres no real solid answer I can find in the BBB which is why I ask.
mfb
QUOTE (blakkie)
That isn't what i said at all. However simsense can alter the viewer, it is just generally assumed that the permanent changes are more brute force than fine control. But perhaps the Resonance is something that does have the ability in this limited field to alter.

i don't care what you alter, you're not going to get the human brain to produce usable radio signal.
Halabis
They. use. magic. I dont realy see any other explanation for it. Not that I mind. I'e always loved the idea that Otaku were just humans adapting to use magic to their new environments.
mfb
i've never liked the idea, myself. it seems cheap that after all the crap otaku have to go through to gain their powers, they're just... magic. but that is the best explanation for what otaku have evolved into--the alternatives i've seen presented are complete balderdash.
Halabis
I dunno, I just kinda liked the idea that they are astrally projecting into the matrix when they jack in. (which as far as I know was only mentioned in a novel) That one line in a crappy novel always made me like otaku as magic. Just a neat concept.
Synner
QUOTE (mfb)
but that is the best explanation for what otaku have evolved into--the alternatives i've seen presented are complete balderdash.

Not entirely true, we've spoken of at least one option and more have come up after a little bit of research - all of which are non magical. But we'll probably have to wait for Unwired to see where it goes.
nick012000
Well, in Psychotrope, an astrally projecting mage that watches an otaku jack in notices that his astral signiture goes all strange when he does so (I believe that it was described as threads shooting out in every dimension). I would like to point out that this doesn't neccessarily mean that otaku are magical, after all, mundane disease and the like also show up on your astral signiture.
Shadow_Prophet
QUOTE (mfb)
QUOTE (blakkie)
That isn't what i said at all. However simsense can alter the viewer, it is just generally assumed that the permanent changes are more brute force than fine control. But perhaps the Resonance is something that does have the ability in this limited field to alter.

i don't care what you alter, you're not going to get the human brain to produce usable radio signal.

Right. You could also say its imposible for giant dragons. And impossible for intelligent Big Foot. Also say its impossible for a monofilament whip, or a monofilament chainsaw for that matter. But hey you seem to be able to take all of those concepts on faith that shadowrun is a fictional universe, why not Technomancers? What makes them so different, than those other logic defying things.
warrior_allanon
you dont have to get it to produce a radio wave MFB, you just have to get the body to create an induction transfer, which it will do naturally, and highten it
mfb
giant dragons and bigfoot? that's magic. i already said that magic is the best explanation for technomancer abilities. monofilament whips are possible today, all you have to do is tie a fishing line to a handle. monofilament whips that can cut people in half with the flick of your wrist are a bit trickier, but not outside the realm of possibility.

i'd like to see an induction field with a 400km range.
Bandwidthoracle
QUOTE (mfb)
i've never liked the idea, myself. it seems cheap that after all the crap otaku have to go through to gain their powers, they're just... magic. but that is the best explanation for what otaku have evolved into--the alternatives i've seen presented are complete balderdash.

Aww, I'd really hate it if they turned out to be magical. Everything cool in SR is magical, with the exception of soul stealing cyberware. I really wish they'd present magic as more of a vice that will bite you, like anything else in SR, than the enabler of man it seems to be.
deadline
QUOTE (mfb @ Sep 15 2005, 12:00 AM)
QUOTE (blakkie)
That isn't what i said at all. However simsense can alter the viewer, it is just generally assumed that the permanent changes are more brute force than fine control. But perhaps the Resonance is something that does have the ability in this limited field to alter.

i don't care what you alter, you're not going to get the human brain to produce usable radio signal.

QUOTE
QUOTE (blakkie)
That isn't what i said at all. However simsense can alter the viewer, it is just generally assumed that the permanent changes are more brute force than fine control. But perhaps the Resonance is something that does have the ability in this limited field to alter.

i don't care what you alter, you're not going to get the human brain to produce usable radio signal.


well my friend youre in for a big shocker: The human brain does emit radio signal and that is a medical proven fact. Its aroun 8 hertz If I am not mistaken. Your brain is filled with ELECTRIC signal that goes from one synapse to another. Anyone who did some physics can tell you that electric signal no mather how faint can produce electromagnetic pulse and fields.As a matther of fact the brain is the ultimate trinary computer (yes/no/ maybe) and the nervous system is also transmiting alond the same wavelengt. Some people have incredibly strong emmission (we had a case of a poor lady that would trigger certain type of security system just by moving nearby) or case of people that can glitch complex electronics when they were near.

so imagine in a world filled with nano cybernetics and magic for almost 2 generations and try to imagine the effect of that on the human body.
Xenith
Ooo.... could you give some links to articles with such info? This is getting interesting. smile.gif
SL James
Oh, boy! I'm going out right now and I'm going to hack that wi-fi hotspot down the street!
mmu1
QUOTE (deadline)
well my friend youre in for a big shocker: The human brain does emit radio signal and that is a medical proven fact. Its aroun 8 hertz If I am not mistaken. Your brain is filled with ELECTRIC signal that goes from one synapse to another. Anyone who did some physics can tell you that electric signal no mather how faint can produce electromagnetic pulse and fields.As a matther of fact the brain is the ultimate trinary computer (yes/no/ maybe) and the nervous system is also transmiting alond the same wavelengt. Some people have incredibly strong emmission (we had a case of a poor lady that would trigger certain type of security system just by moving nearby) or case of people that can glitch complex electronics when they were near.

Wrong. The transmission between synapses is handled by chemical neurotransmitters, not electric signals.

Transmission down nerve axons (which terminate in synapses) is handled via electro-chemical reactions, but any electrical fields generated there are simply the result of ion flow, and you get tons of similar activity in muscle fibers, for example... Wherever there's ion exchange there's electrical charge, but it means exactly squat when it comes to turning the human body into a meaningfully strong radio transmitter. Doing so would require massive, specialized organs (look up electric eels sometime to get an idea of what's needed to generate a decent amount of electricity biologically) - changes so significant you could see them with the naked eye.
Xenith
I did a search and found something interesting. If streched real far it could account for receiving and interpetation of radio signals.

http://www.borderlands.com/archives/arch/elf.htm

Heh.... ELF.
Xenith
Just remember this is just fun info, not "proof it works".

This one even uses "resonance". Irony. Fun.

http://www.merck.com/mmhe/sec06/ch077/ch077d.html

Edit: After a quick glance, this could... could explain why cyber interferes with resonance... it affects the "signal".
Xenith
And one more for good measure.

http://www.wave-guide.org/archives/emf-l/N...aves-(fwd).html

Its mostly just interesting. You'd still have to stretch this data rather far to produce a Technomancer..... or would you ?! **insert funky echo here**

rotfl.gif rotfl.gif rotfl.gif rotfl.gif rotfl.gif rotfl.gif rotfl.gif
Xenith
Even more interesting are these so called Binaural Beats. While not really about radio waves, it would suggest a few interesting things, again if streched rather far. Resonance is also mention in this article.

http://brain.web-us.com/thescience.htm
Shadow_Prophet
QUOTE (mmu1)
QUOTE (deadline @ Sep 15 2005, 04:12 PM)
well my friend youre in for a big shocker: The human brain does emit radio signal and that is a medical proven fact. Its aroun 8 hertz If I am not mistaken. Your brain is filled with ELECTRIC signal that goes from one synapse to another. Anyone who did some physics can tell you that electric signal no mather how faint can produce electromagnetic pulse and fields.As a matther of fact the brain is the ultimate trinary computer (yes/no/ maybe) and the nervous system is also transmiting alond the same wavelengt. Some people have incredibly strong emmission (we had a case of a poor lady that would trigger certain type of security system just by moving nearby) or case of people that can glitch complex electronics when they were near.

Wrong. The transmission between synapses is handled by chemical neurotransmitters, not electric signals.

Transmission down nerve axons (which terminate in synapses) is handled via electro-chemical reactions, but any electrical fields generated there are simply the result of ion flow, and you get tons of similar activity in muscle fibers, for example... Wherever there's ion exchange there's electrical charge, but it means exactly squat when it comes to turning the human body into a meaningfully strong radio transmitter. Doing so would require massive, specialized organs (look up electric eels sometime to get an idea of what's needed to generate a decent amount of electricity biologically) - changes so significant you could see them with the naked eye.

Not nessicarily, telepathy's been theorized for years. Humans don't use a good portion of their brain and we're not realy sure what that portion is capable of as far as I know. Could be a awakening of this part of the brain thats causes the ability of technomancy, which could also explain why corps think that certain dangerouse surgery could awaken latent technomancers.

But hey just throwing throughts out there...
SL James
Humans don't consciously use a good portion of their brain. The brain does get a thorough workout, though.
Shadow_Prophet
QUOTE (SL James)
Humans don't consciously use a good portion of their brain. The brain does get a thorough workout, though.

Prehapse technomancy would be the consciouse use of the other portions of the brain? I don't know as I said, throwing out ideas and theories. I'm not overly versed in neuro-science so...
Xenith
While it is a myth that we only used 10% of the brain, we do not use (even unconsciously) the optimal capacity (an average level of use that does not "burn out the brain"). It is currently uncharted, but is known to be well above our current average usage.

We use a great deal of it during REM sleep, more than when we are awake, though certainly different parts of it.

All in all, as far as I know, we know next to nothing of the brains actual potential.

And while telepathy is theorized it has yet to be proven. I've had strange experiences (closer to a kind of empathy than telepathy) but those can easily be explained away to stimuli being noticed unconsciously. I'm open minded about the paranormal, but I try not to jump to any conclusions. There's just too much we don't know.

Edit: I remember in psychology class about certain people who's brain, at birth, is very different than others in that much of the brain mass we use is just not there (mostly fluid) but they learn to use this "water balloon brain" in the same way as ours. Many seem to have the same level of intellignce as us. Does anyone else remember something like this?
Kagetenshi
QUOTE (Shadow_Prophet @ Sep 15 2005, 05:32 PM)
Humans don't use a good portion of their brain

Some people do. There's a medical term for it: "grand mal seizure".
QUOTE
and we're not realy sure what that portion is capable of as far as I know.

You know wrong.

Xenith: I am familiar with people being born with enlarged ventricles (or acquiring them during life). It's typically associated with mental illness or retardation.
QUOTE
We use a great deal of it during REM sleep, more than when we are awake

This is false. Brain-wave activity is nearly identical to an awake, alert individual during REM sleep.

~J
Xenith
QUOTE (Kagetenshi)
QUOTE
and we're not realy sure what that portion is capable of as far as I know.

You know wrong.

~J

Care to expand? I'm always up for more information on various subjects. Learning is my pleasure. smile.gif
Kagetenshi
The simple answer is that the only way the "10%" (or "unused capacity") idea is even remotely correct is that typically only about 10% of neurons are firing at any given time. They all pretty much fire over the course of a day, doing exactly what they're capable of.

Incidentally, you responded faster than I thought you would; I edited in some responses to you.

~J
Xenith
Hmm.. but there are different levels of activity in different areas right? And have we identified the asossiated use of all or most of the brain? smile.gif

Though I try to keep the paranormal at arms length, I have always believed the brain has more potential or perhaps even raw processing power than we give it credit for. There is, at least, the plasticity of the brains functions. (I believe thats the term anyway.)
mmu1
QUOTE (Xenith)
Hmm.. but there are different levels of activity in different areas right? And have we identified the asossiated use of all or most of the brain? smile.gif

Though I try to keep the paranormal at arms length, I have always believed the brain has more potential or perhaps even raw processing power than we give it credit for. There is, at least, the plasticity of the brains functions. (I believe thats the term anyway.)

IIRC (and it's been a while since I took neuroscience) most of the brain's "dead weight" consists of axon fibers - the "wiring" connecting various distant structures together - and glial cells, which form the "insulation" around the axons and perform support/housekeeping functions. Not very many surprises there.
Kagetenshi
Don't forget the aforementioned ventricles, which are basically just sacs of cerebrospinal fluid. Still nothing much surprising.

~J
Shadow_Prophet
Well as I said I could be wrong. I'm not much up on my neuro-science so smile.gif

EDIT: Just did a broad seach and turned up this neat little tid bit.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/08/science/...artner=homepage
FrankTrollman
While some people get by with very little in the way of a brain, and Daniel Lyon got around with one that was just 650 cc, the people who say that you could get more by utilizing the rest of your brain are like people who try to double the information packing capabilities of their computer by clearing away all the empty space. The zeroes, as well as the ones, carry information.

-Frank
hahnsoo
QUOTE (Xenith @ Sep 15 2005, 04:46 PM)
Even more interesting are these so called Binaural Beats. While not really about radio waves, it would suggest a few interesting things, again if streched rather far. Resonance is also mention in this article.

http://brain.web-us.com/thescience.htm

This refers to very low frequency "audio" beats (in truth, it's not audio because it's below the threshold of hearing) similar to the feeling you get from riding in a car (especially with a big boom boom subwoofer). There is very little practical application to the matter at hand. Of course it talks about resonance, as resonance is a property of any hollow cavity (in this case, the cranium).

QUOTE
EDIT: Just did a broad seach and turned up this neat little tid bit.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/08/science/...artner=homepage
There's a sarcastic joke among the doctors that I know that the NYTimes is the most important medical journal in the world. It brings many headaches to most researchers in the medical community.

EDIT: I don't have a beef with technomancers being able to receive radio signals, and even possibly process them. But it isn't biologically possible to broadcast a radio signal to the degree needed to be a technomancer, not with a normal human physiology (which technomancers reportedly have).
mfb
QUOTE (deadline)
The human brain does emit radio signal and that is a medical proven fact. Its aroun 8 hertz If I am not mistaken.

QUOTE (mfb)
i don't care what you alter, you're not going to get the human brain to produce usable radio signal.


bold added for emphasis. these statements can both resolve as true with no conflict. 8hz is not anywhere on the same side of the universe as "usable signal", even if you discount the fact that the signal doesn't get more than a few meters away from your skull--radio bands start in megahertz, so the human brain is two orders of magnitude away from broadcasting the top 40 countdown. where exactly is the power coming from, to a) raise the frequency of the signal, and b) boost it to a 400km range? (granted, you'd need a Resonance of 18 to reach that, but heck--with the skill and attribute caps, what else is a technomancer going to spend high-end karma on?)
Shadow_Prophet
QUOTE (mfb)
QUOTE (deadline)
The human brain does emit radio signal and that is a medical proven fact. Its aroun 8 hertz If I am not mistaken.

QUOTE (mfb)
i don't care what you alter, you're not going to get the human brain to produce usable radio signal.


bold added for emphasis. these statements can both resolve as true with no conflict. 8hz is not anywhere on the same side of the universe as "usable signal", even if you discount the fact that the signal doesn't get more than a few meters away from your skull. where exactly is the power coming from, to a) raise the frequency of the signal, and b) boost it to a 400km range? (granted, you'd need a Resonance of 18 to reach that, but heck--with the skill and attribute caps, what else is a technomancer going to spend high-end karma on?)

i don't know... knowledge skills? Languages? Improving complex forms?
Fortune
QUOTE (mfb @ Sep 16 2005, 11:44 PM)
where exactly is the power coming from, to a) raise the frequency of the signal, and b) boost it to a 400km range?

It comes from the culmination of the accumulated frustration of a century of nerds sitting in their parents' basement surfing the net for porn.
blakkie
Just back to be a grumpy old man turned Nay-saying Nellie mfb? Or have you changed your mind and decided to play SR4? biggrin.gif

QUOTE
b) boost it to a 400km range? (granted, you'd need a Resonance of 18 to reach that, but heck--with the skill and attribute caps, what else is a technomancer going to spend high-end karma on?)


800+ karma (assuming starting Resonance of 6) after the rounding out of other Skill/Attributes, and you have exhasted the list of Qualities, and associated Attributes/Skills purchase there under, that the GM will allow your character? Well that 400km certainly will come in handy wirelessly hooking up to the Matrix from your Fortress of Solitude built on that little piece of real estate called "Alaska" that you just bought with you spare cash. smile.gif

However on a more serious note, you have forgotten the literary example of a transceiver integrated into a person's brain? It was Neuromancer, right?

P.S. And for crying out loud, it's not just the brain producing this effect. It is likely whole body, otherwise non-headware without DNI would not affect Resonance (well besides being a chunk of metal nearby, but that's just for transmission, not computation).
blakkie
QUOTE (FrankTrollman)
While some people get by with very little in the way of a brain, and Daniel Lyon got around with one that was just 650 cc, the people who say that you could get more by utilizing the rest of your brain are like people who try to double the information packing capabilities of their computer by clearing away all the empty space. The zeroes, as well as the ones, carry information.

That is a curious metaphor given that you can infact toggle a setting NTFS drives that turns compression on and does in fact create extra space (and it is not the first software to do this either). smile.gif Not all 1's and 0's are used to carry the full amount of information.

The space/mass efficency the human brain (and rest of the body too given that this is likely a whole body transmission) though is another question that is extremely hard to measure given our relative lack of knowledge of the details of functioning.
Kagetenshi
QUOTE (blakkie @ Sep 16 2005, 11:39 AM)
Just back to be a grumpy old man turned Nay-saying Nellie mfb? Or have you changed your mind and decided to play SR4? biggrin.gif

It is the duty of every thinking being to fight stupidity wherever it may lie. Currently, it lies in the technomancers.

~J
blakkie
QUOTE (Kagetenshi)
QUOTE (blakkie @ Sep 16 2005, 11:39 AM)
Just back to be a grumpy old man turned Nay-saying Nellie mfb? Or have you changed your mind and decided to play SR4? biggrin.gif

It is the duty of every thinking being to fight stupidity wherever it may lie. Currently, it lies in the technomancers.

I get the concept, sure. But at best Technos are a distant second. wink.gif
Shadow_Prophet
QUOTE (blakkie)
QUOTE (Kagetenshi @ Sep 16 2005, 11:53 AM)
QUOTE (blakkie @ Sep 16 2005, 11:39 AM)
Just back to be a grumpy old man turned Nay-saying Nellie mfb? Or have you changed your mind and decided to play SR4? biggrin.gif

It is the duty of every thinking being to fight stupidity wherever it may lie. Currently, it lies in the technomancers.

I get the concept, sure. But at best Technos are a distant second. wink.gif

lol bad blakkie.

Heh but seriously if you can accept goblinization. If you can accept the matrix... if you can accept elves and dwarves... If you can accept a dragon president... If you can accept magic returning... If you can accept forests growing back all over ireland along with stone circles popping up there suddently... Why are you haveing problems with technomancers?

I mean come on now. By playing shadowrun you've already more than likely accepted all of the above if you play within the current storyline. Whats so hard to accept with technomancers considering the above?
Fortune
Because if they are not magic-based, they really make no sense. And if they are magic-based, then they are just plain cheese.
blakkie
QUOTE (Shadow_Prophet)
I mean come on now. By playing shadowrun you've already more than likely accepted all of the above if you play within the current storyline. Whats so hard to accept with technomancers considering the above?

I think the gist of it is that he doesn't want them to be magic (awakened), and he can't wrap his head around there being any possible mundane explaination. I just happen to think he's working too hard at not being able to wrap his head around it. wink.gif

I don't like the idea of Otaku/Technos being awakened either. I just am able to get past the improbability that there is a mundane way it could happen. I have a bad feeling though that eventually there is going to be some partial magic link, although the events that brought on the Technos had very little magical connection other than the magically enhanced nature of the EMP nukes.
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