Did it ever happen? Did I miss that day in history class? No? Oh that's right. It STILL Has never happened. The THREAT of nukes is one thing. Nuking your own country is another. Noone's ever done it. And as has been pointed out even in these insane "oh it was the plan" proposals, they would be targeted at huge advancing armys. Not citys of your own people that may harbor a few 100 to 1000 terrorists amist 1000s to 100,000s of your own people. It's not the same thing. It's absurd.



Because at the time Magic was an unknown military force multiplier that could not be easily contained. When Howling coyote walked out of the detention camps troops were emptying machine guns at him and the bullets just bounced off. Then they blew up multiple volcanoes across the us. They basically stepped up and went 'We have a new super-weapon YOU DON'T HAVE. Do what we say or we'll F you up"

The US couldn't say they COULDN'T do it, and after the GGD demonstration, they couldn't risk it.

And summoned hurricanes to take down birds and jets, earthquakes to destroy warehouses, etc.
Until then, it was basically a weird new weapon used against military targets. When they went "berserker" they pretty leveled 4 cities with volcanoes and hit civilian targets. It was basically the same thing the US did with Japan in WW2. And after Japan had recovered from the war they did not went against the US for revenge and japanese people are crazy (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

Japan has been systematically underminding the US's industrial complex since WWII ended.

They went after us for Revenge. They just did it the slow, safe way.

Or they did until the '80's, when their recession hit and never really went away. Now their population is dying off faster than they can replenish it.

Yeah.. Overinflated economy based on housing prices is a bitch...

Thank God we learned from their Mistakes..

oh..

Wait.

We learned how to do it better.

For varying degrees of 'better'. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I would have said we learned how to do it more hardcore

That truly is the american way, uh? Get what other people do but do it faster, harder, stronger. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Somethings might be better off not duplicated (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

just saying.

We're in for 10 years of economic nothing.. at least.

Doesn't help that your President doesn't seem to understand how the economy or international trade works. But as a Canadian that just means more of the pie for us!

Can we shut up about politics please.

*Shrugs* Beats the three pages of Internet Tough Guy warrrgarbl about nuking/gassing half the country.

Real life political discussions violate the terms of service agreement and get threads locked. Internet tough guy "what if" nonsense about using WMD's on fake countries doesn't.

You're right, it's what got the last NAN thread locked, it's frustrating to read at times, and the inevitable return to TOS-breaking topics like that is part of my reasoning that NAN threads should just be banned as a whole in the first place. Still, I would prefer it to ITG drek.

I don't think I've ever seen a NAN thread that had anything interesting in it. Sorry if my comment offended anyone.

Feel free to go back to discussions of ethnic cleansing. Yikes.

Sadly, sometimes i wonder why i return to dumpshock as it seems very little is actually new (maybe because very little in the books released lately is anything new).

Like the SR writers did with NAN?

A hit, a Palpable hit.

Yeah, whatever. As I said, feel free to cut the NAN out of your game, but that won't convince me you're playing Shadowrun.

and?

And what? I've already said my pieces. I posted already a few pages ago backing up that specific statement as to why I think that, and I've also had a post in the previous one that lined out where I thought the population movement could be considered feasible. (IIRC, only about 35 or so million had to get moved in the areas, and that's not taking any out for the countries that were lax on the anti-Anglo) . If you guys are going to get glib with one-sentence posts, then I figured I'd just follow suit. Otherwise this argument is getting tiring.

You hate the NAN. Fine. I'm completely disturbed by the casualness you use when talking about using nerve gas or a nuke, to be honest, more than the idea you hate a fictional creation.

So me thinking of trying to wipe out a group of individuals who have ordered me to dissolve and abandon my country, under pain of genocide is "CRAZY", but someone leveling a city without warning, trying to start a nuclear war, and erupting 4 volcanoes is perfectly "A-ok".... Yes I can totally see where you are coming from.

To begin with, I never said you were crazy. You quoted my entire last post, and the only one calling you crazy is you. All I said was I was disturbed how quickly you reached for the mass murder option, whether it would affect civilians not involved in the conflict or not. Not to mention you're also using "a group of individuals who have ordered me" making me think you're taking this entire NAN thing a little bit personally; also disturbing.

And in either post, have I ever defended the IC actions that created the NAN? Not entirely. I'll defend the creation of them from a story perspective, the plot can seem a bit feasable given what people have been trying to say time and time again, but I'm not going "hey mass murder on either side is groovy". Yes, my sympathies are with Natives anyway being part myself, but I wouldn't approve of something like that.

I never called you crazy. I called speech like yours "Internet Tough Guy wargarrbl", but I've never called you crazy.

I do not like the NAN because they do NOT make sense. Let's face it, the NAN would have had to have Magic Braves™ coming out of their ass to keep their gains after the GGD ended.

Acme, FASA just took EVERY stereotype in the world and said "Yeah... that would be cool to add to our new game!"

Examples of FASA uber-stupidity (not a complete list):

1. Mexico turning back to Aztec in less than 60 years.
2. Japan turning back into a Empire with the ability to wage war.
3. California getting handed over to Japan.
4. The Union and the Confederacy live again!
5. Europe imploding to such a degree that you have anarchy.

They also make a Super Faction in their game systems. BattleTech had the Clans and Shadowrun had the Elves of the various flavors of Tir. These elves can do things that normal humans can't do. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohplease.gif)

Sorry Acme, FASA took one too many stupid pills when they made the fluff for Shadowrun.

Well that's your opinion, KC. You can play the game with whatever you decide, as I've said before. There have been several people giving their opinions of how it could work, but meh, right. I stand behind my opinions. If you don't like the fluff, then fine, but the fluff is part of Shadowrun.