Does anyone else think that Krav is overpowered.
Take Aim as a Free Action and/or Ready Weapon as a Free Action. Really!
They can ready any weaon as a free action. A Physical adept with quick draw still has to make a test, so do characters with Iaijutsu. It has become the standard ability for ALL runners I know, regardless of character fluff.

So, am I the only one with this issue?

a GM with some brain restricts it for pistols only...that of course is a houserule

That's how we roll at our games too.

Well, while quick draw power does reguier a test, it's not a kind of test a gun slinger adept is likely to fail and it uses up no action.

SR4 martial arts, in general, are dangerously vague. They should include 'style weapons' or something, and/or clearer conditional restrictions on the various bonuses. Some *do*, which is why it's especially frustrating.

That's what the GM's for, I guess. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Can't anybody (try to) do pistols already? Well, sort of- draw and fire as a simple action with a reaction test, right? Or was that dropped in Sr4? Was a fave option for my speed sam. Often used it instead of re-loading; free to drop, simple to quickdraw and fire, shoot again with a simple.

What is this 're-loading' you speak of? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Silly Matrix scenes.

Krav Maga is actually based on using any weapon that you may come across, so restricting it to pistols is not in keeping with the spirit of the martial art itself. There's a school near my house and first day students are learning knife and gun disarms, breakfalls, and standing from prone without hands. In fact, with a little research you'll actually find that Krav is one of the very original martial arts - the Hebrew slaves taught Krav to Pharoe's bodyguards who the Greeks learned aspects of it from and turned it into pankration, then spread that around the world (eventually becoming virtually every modern-known martial art). So yeah, Krav Maga is powerful because it was basically the first.

Whilst I agree they are both useful abilities, I've never built a Krav character. I have considered it but martial arts rules are not in place in the game that character is in. I have taken Iaijutusu in a build using different martial arts.

That sounds suspiciously like a self-aggrandizing rewriting of history, Neraph, but no skin off my nose. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Hey, its better than a kid I knew who believed that Age of Empires depicted real history.

The first in the Ocident, if you insist. Tai-chi, kung-fu, whatever, might be dated along the same time or even older.

Yes, Karate, Jujitsu, Various forms of Wu Shu, Tung Tse Do, all those are based on Krav Maga.

Yeah.

Krav is pretty cool, and it's served the Israeli Special Forces well. But lets not get carried away on the history of it.

Tanng Soo Do is based off of Shotokan karate, taekkyeon, Subak, and Chinese kung fu, and only been around for about 2k years, so that's not a good example. More modern Karate is only a couple hundred years old. Jujutsu is only a few hundred years old also. Wushu is the only martial art about as old as Krav Maga/Pankration, and shares many of the same concepts and movements, if with a different flair.

Well.... it's not really that bothersome for anything outside of a pistol. The ready weapon portion is mostly applicable to pistols anyway since most other two handed firearms are probably already going to be readied before combat begins. So the benefit for two-handed firearms is mostly limited to the free action take aim.

As for quick draw? That's a separate action from ready weapon. It's a combination of ready weapon + simple action attack in a single simple action.

With Krav Maga
Free Action Ready Weapon. Simple Action Shoot. Simple Action Shoot. [2 shots]

Without Krav Maga
Quick Draw. Simple Action Shoot. (Free Action preserved) [2 shots]

Quick draw is superior to Krav maga's benefit.

Once again, not an issue for two-handed firearms since they will almost always be readied if you're carrying it.

Someone get me Wounded Ronin and the rest of the Bullshido crew.

This is 100% bullshit. Krav Maga was developed by a Hungarian Jew in the 1930s. Imi Lichtenfeld developed it as a means of helping the Jewish community of Bratislava protect itself from growing anti-semitic activity. Any attempts to claim it was taught to the Pharoah's slaves in ancient Egypt is completely, utterly unsupported by any serious historical record. There is zero evidence to support this lineage, as any "basic research" would tell you. I don't know any details about where the Greeks developed Pankration or if the slaves had anything to do with it, but I can tell you with absolute certainty that it had no influence on the development of Krav Maga, except possibly when Imi Lichtenfeld said, "Hey, you know what's a good idea? Defending yourself!" Cuz, y'know, the slaves probably had that idea too.

It's a cool martial art, sure. But let's not pretend it's older than it is. New things can be awesome too.

In fact, new things are always more awesome. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Basically the section on Jew-Fu was written by someone like Neraph that's why it is amazing where as most of the other martial arts run the gamut from meh to neat.

Now without getting into the merits of any particular real world martial arts I will say from aa game design stand point krav fails especially next to firefight. That's why it's banned at my tables.

TBH. I like Krav Maga over Firefight because I use two-handed firearms and I have a notorious habit for making disarm attempts by shooting weapons out of people's hands. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

Tell that to Star Wars (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rollin.gif)

Right when you have one martial art that is dramaticly better then all others especially at the specific thing another was built from the ground up for that's a game design issue

Yup, it's better than most for most runners.
On the other hand, i'm glad it's as good as it is. You're spending precious quality points on it. It needs to be worthwhile.

Honestly, I'm not sure whether you say Krav Maga or Firefight is overpowered/underpowered.

Both Krav Maga and Firefight are for fighting with ranged weapons in melee combat. The benefits are identical except for one benefit that differs between them. Krav Maga gets +1 to disarm attempts, Firefight get +1 to melee dodge. However these benefits only apply while in melee combat. It's not as if you could be standing out of melee combat and get your +1 to disarm. There's only a few benefits that seem like they should apply outside of melee combat. Ninjitsu's +1 Infiltration comes to mind.

Krav Maga is not designed (in SR4) to be a defensive martial art. In fact it is a purely offensive martial art. Firefight is a combination of offensive and defensive bonuses. So I'm not sure where or how you're comparing the two since eat art serves a different role as defined by their differing traits. This is the reason Krav Maga appeals to my character. He's hyper offensive and his defensive strength lies in undetectability. Granted he uses ranged attacks from range so Krav Maga benefits wouldn't apply, but if forced into a melee combat situation Krav Maga would serve him better since the differing bonus from Firefight is nigh useless and he doesn't use pistols anyway.

Are martial arts only for melee combat? I never took krav as a melee martial art. If so, how does take aim apply in melee only?

Firing a handgun while in melee, mostly.