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Dahrken
post Dec 15 2010, 05:50 AM
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QUOTE (Sengir @ Dec 14 2010, 08:32 PM) *
Hmmm, what's the most ridiculous thing I can think of involving dumb stats...replace all physical stats with your magic rating?

It's not that bad. For the cost of 2 point of Improved Attributes -which I won't call "cheap" in term of points of power - you can use one mental stat to replace a physical stat, and you don't pick freely, you use the same relationship as when going astral. And you can only take the power once.
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Pepsi Jedi
post Dec 15 2010, 06:15 AM
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I'll ask as people have not answered.

How's the art?

And is it worth another double buy? I bought 6th WA in pdf then in hard copy when it was printed.

Do I want to do that with War or just wait for Dead tree?
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KarmaInferno
post Dec 15 2010, 06:29 AM
Post #103


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I was going to ask about the usability of War! in Shadowrun Missions, but then I got a look at the Availability ratings.

Yeesh.*




-k

* - my face might have to actually wait more than two weeks to get some of that! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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imperialus
post Dec 15 2010, 07:16 AM
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QUOTE (Pepsi Jedi @ Dec 14 2010, 11:15 PM) *
I'll ask as people have not answered.

How's the art?


Eh, sparse and mixed... There's a neat piece on Page 30 showing a dragon attacking a military installation, A pretty nice pic of an azzie shaman in a firefight on page 14 though he looks a little disinterested in the whole affair and a nice pic of a merc on page 152 but nothing that pops out at me and shouts "I want my PC's to do THAT!"

The rest of it is... well, better than I can draw but that's not saying much. I definitely wouldn't be buying this one for the art value. They have a few CG pictures that just don't sit well with me. There's a terrible one of a flying car shooting at... I think they're supposed to be hang gliders in the middle of what looks like a random collection of buildings someone found on a freeware 3d modeling website. There's also another one by the same artist on page 171 showing some ork chick with glowing eyes standing in a jungle with some guy sitting in what looks like... well I don't even know what it's supposed to look like... There's a chair, and controls... and a big metal thing in front of it, but it's in the middle of the jungle... Oh, and there's a dude with fins on his head standing beside that.
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Mäx
post Dec 15 2010, 07:45 AM
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Oh, Battle Rifles (IMG:style_emoticons/default/love.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/love.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/love.gif)
I assume those use the automatics skill, even thought the books says nothing on the issue?

Nice to see that Lowthyr has a sense of humour, what with the air superiority fighter named "S-K Dunkelzahn" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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Grinder
post Dec 15 2010, 10:12 AM
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Have been reading the PDF for a while now and I have to say: I'm not impressed. Not at all. It feels as if the book has been written by a bunch of people who don't have a clue about the setting (many names in the credit sections don't ring a bell). Bogota wouldn't have been my prime choice for a book dealing with military and mercenary conflicts (What about Central Arica, Sibiria, Neu-Guinea?), on top of that the city description is boring and doesn't delve too deep into the dirty secrets.
To make things worse does War! bring back the power creep we had with previous editions and starts a new round of splitting gear over several books. Not to mention the horrible unbalanced rules (i.e. the device ratings) and the shitty names for some of the new pieces.

In short: one of the worst SR-sourcebooks I've ever read.
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Rotbart van Dain...
post Dec 15 2010, 10:19 AM
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Of course, such power creep gear is why people will buy this book. Or so goes the theory.
QUOTE (Mäx @ Dec 15 2010, 08:45 AM) *
Nice to see that Lowthyr has a sense of humour, what with the air superiority fighter named "S-K Dunkelzahn"

Given the rest of the "german" names for SK gear, he's going to need it. On the other hand, this one is most likely just to rub Ghostwalker the wrong way.
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Grinder
post Dec 15 2010, 10:33 AM
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QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig @ Dec 15 2010, 11:19 AM) *
Of course, such power creep gear is why people will buy this book. Or so goes the theory.


I don't have to like that theory, do I? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)
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Saint Sithney
post Dec 15 2010, 10:38 AM
Post #109


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QUOTE (imperialus @ Dec 14 2010, 09:27 AM) *
One other thing that I might point out is that War's power creep is largely focused on the mundane... It gives the non awakened PC's a chance to catch up to the spell slingers once they start skimming the upper edge of the power curve. Having played a few high karma games I think this fills an extremely important niche.


So, should I take this to mean that the book offers little in the way of options for base-level runners?

Maybe this means that Attitude will focus on new street-level stuff for those of us who like lower-powered games? Hmmm..
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UmaroVI
post Dec 15 2010, 11:32 AM
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QUOTE (Dahrken @ Dec 15 2010, 12:50 AM) *
It's not that bad. For the cost of 2 point of Improved Attributes -which I won't call "cheap" in term of points of power - you can use one mental stat to replace a physical stat, and you don't pick freely, you use the same relationship as when going astral. And you can only take the power once.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/sleepy.gif) That's some crazy power creep right there. Dump Reaction, get as much Intuition as possible, and replace Reaction will probably be the standard, since pretty much everyone will want those stats (since they determine your initiative, and your Perception/Not In the Face check respectively. Oh, and Pixies rejoice at the Willpower -> Body option.
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Mäx
post Dec 15 2010, 11:45 AM
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QUOTE (UmaroVI @ Dec 15 2010, 01:32 PM) *
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/sleepy.gif) That's some crazy power creep right there. Dump Reaction, get as much Intuition as possible, and replace Reaction will probably be the standard, since pretty much everyone will want those stats (since they determine your initiative, and your Perception/Not In the Face check respectively. Oh, and Pixies rejoice at the Willpower -> Body option.

I was thinking of combining this with SoftWeave armor to make "tank" pornomancer.
Body 3 and Charisma 10 (replacing strength) would allow her to wear 16 point of armor (IMG:style_emoticons/default/love.gif)

Edit: SoftWeave armor is one of the thinks i'm really on the fence about, on one hand it allows for even higher armor ratings(except there aren't any armor with high enought rating for a troll tank), but on the other hand it makes strength a little more usefull stat.
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Rotbart van Dain...
post Dec 15 2010, 12:04 PM
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QUOTE (Mäx @ Dec 15 2010, 12:45 PM) *
(except there aren't any armor with high enought rating for a troll tank), but on the other hand it makes strength a little more usefull stat.

By RAW, you can get softweave FFBA. Also by RAW, nothing prevents you from layering multiple FFBAs. In fact, you even could add the optional rule that custom armor uses triple body.
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Stahlseele
post Dec 15 2010, 12:17 PM
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And the Micheline Man gets a nice set of Tusks, Horns and pointy ears o.O
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Aaron
post Dec 15 2010, 12:21 PM
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QUOTE (UmaroVI @ Dec 15 2010, 06:32 AM) *
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/sleepy.gif) That's some crazy power creep right there. Dump Reaction, get as much Intuition as possible, and replace Reaction will probably be the standard, since pretty much everyone will want those stats (since they determine your initiative, and your Perception/Not In the Face check respectively. Oh, and Pixies rejoice at the Willpower -> Body option.

It looks like the power only lets you replace attributes for tests, so while the Not in the Face check (which is a brilliant term that I'll be using from now on at my table, by the way) is useful, the attribute switch wouldn't apply to the calculation of the Initiative attribute (and other derived stats) or a pixie's Condition Monitor. So my pornomancer could be quite athletic (*blink innocently*) but still can't wear lots of armor without getting custom SoftWeave with four hundred layers of FFBA like RvD suggested.
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Sengir
post Dec 15 2010, 12:35 PM
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QUOTE (Grinder @ Dec 15 2010, 11:12 AM) *
and starts a new round of splitting gear over several books.

Well, if WAR! was just the military sourcebook, with all the stuff and rules for really big badass warfare, it would fit nicely with the concept of "speciality" books started by RW. Want to expand a certain aspect in your campaign, get book X and it has everything you need.

But from what I've read so far, it looks more like a list of new must-haves (sometimes nearly reflex trigger musthaveness), and then there's ANOTHER book called MilSpec Gear in progress...

And seriously guys: If you can not German, then let it out instead to embarrass you <- that's what the advice would sound like if I had written it the same way the names for S-K products are done.
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Rotbart van Dain...
post Dec 15 2010, 12:43 PM
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Hint: "Himmelsschmiede" in Target: Wastelands was ok. "Himmelhammer" in War! – not so much.
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Mäx
post Dec 15 2010, 12:54 PM
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QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig @ Dec 15 2010, 02:04 PM) *
Also by RAW, nothing prevents you from layering multiple FFBAs.

Maybe not by RAW, but being beaten senseless by the GM kinda does (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)
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Stahlseele
post Dec 15 2010, 01:05 PM
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Hardcover RPG Books hurt . .
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Rotbart van Dain...
post Dec 15 2010, 01:06 PM
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On the other hand, allowing armor layering by eye demystifies FFBA nicely.

BTW: Anyone notice how utterly useless the only new sensor in War! is? It finds explosives within a range of 1m – MADs that trigger them have a range of 3m.
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Mäx
post Dec 15 2010, 01:28 PM
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QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig @ Dec 15 2010, 03:06 PM) *
On the other hand, allowing armor layering by eye demystifies FFBA nicely.

I'm all for allowing stacking of all armors, still doesn't mean i wouldn't smack silly anyone saying their character is wearing multiple sets of FFBA.
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Aria
post Dec 15 2010, 01:36 PM
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QUOTE (Prime Mover @ Dec 15 2010, 02:06 AM) *
Personal nitpick, art for new weapons/vehicles/gear quantity and quality? (I know were long past full page days but Its a HUGE help to have some representation.)


Yep, first thing I looked for too...ah well, perhaps someone out there will do some and post them here (would have a go myself with more time (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) )
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Grinder
post Dec 15 2010, 01:45 PM
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QUOTE (Sengir @ Dec 15 2010, 01:35 PM) *
And seriously guys: If you can not German, then let it out instead to embarrass you <- that's what the advice would sound like if I had written it the same way the names for S-K products are done.


(IMG:style_emoticons/default/notworthy.gif)
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Sengir
post Dec 15 2010, 02:01 PM
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QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Dec 15 2010, 02:05 PM) *
Hardcover RPG Books hurt . .

Zeitstrafe...take a Zeit (German weekly) issue, roll it up and whack the offender with it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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Doc Chase
post Dec 15 2010, 02:53 PM
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QUOTE (Aaron @ Dec 15 2010, 12:29 AM) *
I disagree, both in the author's intent and the nature of military power.

We can discuss the latter (I'll kick it off by pointing out that the world "political" or one of its forms appears in 103 places in WAR), but as to the former, I can say for certain that the error in the sentence on p. 156 is my fault. I sometimes think faster than I type.


That works, then. I'll reserve the heated argument until I have enough time to finish reading the entire damn thing.

It hasn't been a good pair of weeks. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)
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Prime Mover
post Dec 15 2010, 02:54 PM
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QUOTE (Aria @ Dec 15 2010, 08:36 AM) *
Yep, first thing I looked for too...ah well, perhaps someone out there will do some and post them here (would have a go myself with more time (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) )


So none of new weapons/vehicles represented? Buying any kind of gear reference book I'm real big on being able to toss a pic on the table. It's so much better to say you open the crate to find 6 of "these" (Toss a pic on the table). As opposed too you open the crate to find 6 xx52's. Especially when dealing with brand new items.
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